The Campaign Builder's Guild

First off, I don't want to step on anyone's toes here by creating a new thread, but I thought it would make things much simpler instead of having lots of things piled into one discussion. Anyhow, as I've been around the forums for a while and have yet to run a game, I figured a one-shot would be a great primer. So, to keep things brief, I am offering an Arga one-shot, and would love it if anyone would like to be my lab-mice, errr, players, for my first GM game. As I'm sure a few of you have noticed, I've plopped down some peripheral settings which have served as a kind of 'creativity valve' and, believe it or not, the ancient bronze gears of Arga have slowly begun to grind in my head again.

As a side note, I would also be totally down to join as many other one-shots as my schedule can accommodate. If it's the beginning of the year, I shouldn't have too much school work to deal with but work is always iffy-iffy.

So if anyone at all would like to take part in the potentially the first Arga game EVER, let me know so I can start planning out a one-shot!

[spoiler=Note: Dry But Important Details]If this happens, and I hope it does, here are the basic guidelines I have in mind. First off, it will be an E6 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Epic_6) game with the classes based upon the d20 Modern core (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/basicclasses.html), as ironic as that sounds, but I want players to be defined more by what they do more than what they are labeled as. Also, 'magic' will be a skill based on incantations more than classic spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm), so, at the disappointment to a few I'm sure, being a classic Wizard ain't happening. But that doesn't mean an 'arcane' character can't exist, only that their role will be slightly changed for the better, I hope.  [/spoiler]

I would definitely be interested, if the time works.

EDIT: E6 is awesome btw.  And incantations look very interesting.

Glad to hear! We'll just have to figure out a decent time once we get a headcount.

I'll probably join in if I can manage whatever time.

My :2cents:: I like the idea of E6, but I emphatically do not like d20 Modern's classes.

Quote from: sparkletwist
I'll probably join in if I can manage whatever time.

My :2cents:: I like the idea of E6, but I emphatically do not like d20 Modern's classes.

Well, they are somewhat bland, but I think they make the best fit for Arga, although I plan on heavily modifying them. Either that, or tweaking and restricting the core classes: the Paladin, Monk, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, and Ranger all have no place in Arga which leaves us only with the Bard, Fighter, and Rogue, which in their current states, barely make sense in my minds eye. The problem that I see is that they are all 'Medieval' archetypes, and Arga is most definitely not a Medieval-type setting.

Quote from: Señor Leetz
Well, they are somewhat bland, but I think they make the best fit for Arga, although I plan on heavily modifying them. Either that, or tweaking and restricting the core classes: the Paladin, Monk, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, and Ranger all have no place in Arga which leaves us only with the Bard, Fighter, and Rogue, which in their current states, barely make sense in my minds eye. The problem that I see is that they are all 'Medieval' archetypes, and Arga is most definitely not a Medieval-type setting.

I'd be interested too.  I am pretty much with Sparkle on d20 Modern classes, though.  As you yourself mention, they are kinda dull, and I I don't see how they do anything to help the PCs be defined by "what they do" than the standard D&D classes do.  And the D&D classes have more interesting abilities.

If you need something more "greek" maybe a modified version of Pathfinder's Oracle class, made to fit your incantations.  Or something from this list of 3rd party classes made for Pathfinder?  I know you are not running pathfinder as such, but honestly, it's pretty much the same system. 

Also, maybe the Barbarian variant on the d20srd might work for something "amazonian?"

QuoteBarbarian
A barbarian who prefers crafty hunting over pure ferocity might choose to exchange his rage ability for certain ranger class features.

Gain
Favored enemy (as ranger); archery combat style, improved archery combat style, and archery combat style mastery (as ranger).

Lose
Rage, greater rage, indomitable will, tireless rage, mighty rage.

Very true on all accounts. I should probably look into some 3rd party classes. It is, however, going to be a very martial setting, so maybe looking into different variants of the Fighter to expand a bit? Maybe one focused on the sword, another on the spear-shield combo, another on the bow, etc.? Even making variants of the Rogue to make a "Trickster" class (Odysseus for example), a "Poet" class (Homer), or a "Philosopher" (Socrates)?

You might look into running it in an E6 version of Pathfinder - some of the class Archetypes might suit Arga well, and all the rules are online.  But I'd be OK with D20 modern classes, personally.  If you're looking for d20esque alternatives you could look into True20 as well.

EDIT:

QuoteIt is, however, going to be a very martial setting, so maybe looking into different variants of the Fighter to expand a bit? Maybe one focused on the sword, another on the spear-shield combo, another on the bow, etc.? Even making variants of the Rogue to make a "Trickster" class (Odysseus for example), a "Poet" class (Homer), or a "Philosopher" (Socrates)?

Weapon Master
Phalanx Soldier
Polearm Master
Archer
Shielded Fighter
Two-Handed Fighter
Charlatan
Demagogue
Enlightened Philosopher

Quote from: Señor Leetz
Very true on all accounts. I should probably look into some 3rd party classes. It is, however, going to be a very martial setting, so maybe looking into different variants of the Fighter to expand a bit? Maybe one focused on the sword, another on the spear-shield combo, another on the bow, etc.? Even making variants of the Rogue to make a "Trickster" class (Odysseus for example), a "Poet" class (Homer), or a "Philosopher" (Socrates)?

I see Odysseus as a Ftr/Rog multiclass (since he was a warrior too), but I totally agree with you on him being a "Trickster" and that playing up those aspects of Rogue would be appropriate and desirable.  "Poet" sounds like a Bard Variant, and Philosopher might also.   Philosopher would just have Perform (Rhetoric) instead of Perform (Poetry).

Not to turn this thread into self-promotion, but you might want to consider taking a look at Q&D. It has a very simple class system that you don't even need to use at all, basing characters much more on the skills they've taken-- i.e., defining them by what they do.

Ok, I've been pondering this, and to the chagrin of many, I still think that a variant of d20 Modern is really the best fit for Arga for several reasons. First, I think the idea of specific classes is too defining. In Arga, all the players are warriors of one kind or another, and having only part of group be warriors by definition is somewhat limiting. Also, the normal idea of classes are akin to a profession, where, once again, all the players are of the like profession - war.

Although I plan on changing the d20 Modern classes, both in fluff and crunch, I also like how they are all relatively equal in a martial sense. d6s and d8s are the common HD, with only the 'Tough Hero' having a d10. And while the BABs are somewhat less equal, all classes have the opportunity to stand on a more equal combat footing through the right choices of feats.

Anyhow, at the moment, I'm going through the d20 Modern classes and changing them to something that will hopefully make more sense. 

Ok, here's the Arga-fied fluff for the d20 Modern Classes. Each class is tied to each of the core abilities, it should be fairly evident which is which, and I tried to make them each martial in their own way the best I could. I also gave examples of classical Heroes that loosely fit the definition (I'm sure not everyone will agree with me on them all, but it's just for a guide. Some obviously fit better than others).





The Mighty Hero seeks to cut down all who stand before them through sheer strength and power. He breaks through that which is thought unbreakable and defeats those who are thought to be unbeatable. It is for this reason that he is the most glorious of all Heroes. Examples of a Mighty Hero could be Achilles, Hercules, or Theseus.

The Fleet Hero looks to defeat those who challenge her by being the fastest of all, to be but a whisper on the wind. She is agile where others are sluggish, quick where others are slow, nimble where others fumble. It is for this reason that she is the most glorious of all Heroes. Examples of a Fleet Hero could be Atalanta, Antilochus, Meriones, or Teucer.

The Stoic Hero is steadfast against all that opposes him in spirit and in body. He stands where others would falter, he continues where others would retreat. It is for this reason he is the most glorious of all Heroes. Examples of a Stoic Hero could be Ajax, Telamon, or Cercyon

The Cunning Hero pursues victory through trickery, cleverness, and thinking beyond the sword. He is creative where others are narrow-minded, smart where others are stupid, reasonable while others are rash. It is for this reason he is the most glorious of all Heroes. Examples of a Cunning Hero could be Odysseus, Diomedes, or Idomeneus.

The Wise Hero searches for purpose and strength through the wisdom of the world, through ancient teachings and honor. She is calm where others are shaken, sure where others doubt and deep where others are shallow. It is for this reason she is the most glorious of all Heroes. Examples of a Wise Hero could be Triptolemus, Hector, Nestor, or Priam.

The Graceful Hero seeks to achieve victory not through martial prowess alone, but through words and personal force. He is charming where others are rude, radiant where others are dim, inspiring where others are apathetic. It is for this reason that he is the most glorious of all Heroes. Examples of a Graceful Hero could be Orpheus, Aeneas, or Paris.

Or, I thought later last night, there could just be one 'Hero' class - basically the Fighter without heavy armor proficiency, slightly more skill points, and the option for each player to make, say, 4 non-class skills into class skills.

I like your take on the d20 Modern classes.  But then I've never had a big problem with them beyond slightly bland labeling, which you've fixed.

Quote from: Señor LeetzI also like how they are all relatively equal in a martial sense. d6s and d8s are the common HD, with only the 'Tough Hero' having a d10. And while the BABs are somewhat less equal, all classes have the opportunity to stand on a more equal combat footing through the right choices of feats.

They really aren't.

Fast Heroes are usually the best class. They have a decent hit die, ok BAB, great defense, and get a nice number of skills. Their talents are also really nice. Strong Heroes seem like they'd actually be pretty bad in a truly modern d20 modern game, because they're designed to be the big bruiser fighter type and the modern world has guns. However, they'd probably do ok in a more primitive world where you don't have to worry about being shot in the head long before you can even get into melee range. They still don't have many skill points, though. For some reason, d20 systems never like to give the "Fighter" types much out of combat usefulness, which is annoying.

Anyway, Smart Heroes and Charismatic Heroes have the lowest BAB, lousy defense, and a d6 HD. Their bad BAB is made worse by the fact that each class is supposed to focus on a specific stat, so these guys aren't likely to have very high strength (or dexterity) either, further harming their attack and damage rolls. Most feats in d20 are not exactly impressive, meaning that in a melee-combat-oriented game, this really becomes a deficit that is very hard to overcome.

Charismatic Heroes are especially weird because they're designed specifically to focus on the extremely wonky world of d20 social skills. This makes a Charismatic Hero either game-breaking powerful if your DM uses the Diplomacy rules as written (the ones that allow "diplomancy," where you can do stuff like convince an mortal enemy to give up the fight and be your friend, as a full-round action) or pretty crappy if the DM is more realistic and you're trying to talk while everyone else is swinging swords.

Quote from: Señor LeetzI thought later last night, there could just be one 'Hero' class - basically the Fighter without heavy armor proficiency, slightly more skill points, and the option for each player to make, say, 4 non-class skills into class skills.

This might be the better choice. But, then again, if you do this, you're basically getting rid of classes. If you're going to play d20 without classes, is there really a strong reason to stick with d20 at all?