Xev20 Mini Thread: Name my Gish

Xeviat · February 11, 2013, 01:48:36 AM

My current project is basically a system patch for D&D. Long story short, I am combining (what I feel are) the best parts of D&D 3E and D&D 4E.

One of my additions to the game is going to be a base gish class (for those who aren't familiar with the term, "gish" now adays refers to warrior/mage type characters, named after Githyanki Fighter/Mages back in the day). Yes, I know 3E had the Hexblade, and a number of others, but bear with me. First off, the class is going to be a Fighter/Sorcerer, as the Paladin is a Fighter/Cleric, the Bard is a Rogue/Wizard, and the Ranger is a Fighter/Rogue/Druid (oh how I wanted to make a 3/4ths BAB Ranger with more skills ...). Second off, in my system patch, the Psion and Sorcerer are merging; thus, the Psychic Warrior and this new Gish class are merging.

So, what we have for the class is a warrior who fights with magic, one whose magical power is innate. The wield magic as intimately as a lifelong warrior wields a weapon; for them, magic is their weapon. I envision a class able to form weapons from nothing, or at least able to call a weapon to them at a moments notice, a class who could use a wall of force instead of a shield. In 3rd Edition terms, the class would have a 0-6th level spell progression, much like the Bard, and they'd use class abilities to augment their fighting.

So, what should I call this class? I do not want it to be a compound word: No Spellsword, Eldritch Knight, Swordmage, Bladesinger, Warmage, or Hexblade. I'd like a name that is used in the English language, mostly for setting flavor (in my search, Kensai brings with it some of the connotations I'd like, but the best translation for that is Swordsaint or Swordsage, which was a class in Tome of Battle, but again, a compound word).

No synonyms I found for Warrior or Wizard/Sorcerer/Warlock suited me.

Now, perhaps if I look to the Sorcerer's fluff, I could find an idea. I will be using Pathfinder's bloodlines for my Sorcerer (partially because I came up with the idea way before Pathfinder, but that's neither here nor there). Sorcerer's aren't all draconian, they could be celestial, fiendish, fey, or even simply creatures of the arcane. But perhaps this is more focused in this Gish? What if rather than wielding the magic within them, as the sorcerer does, they become their magic? Perhaps there is a good word, something semi-broad, for someone who changes their nature, or is something more than mortal?

Scion (a little divine)? Exemplar (too divine)? Mutant (too sci-fi)? Channeler was an old name I used, but I don't quite feel it. Conduit? Disciple? Warlock?

My creativity is tapped. I suppose I need to think of the real world archetype that the class will be covering. Paladins are Knights, Rangers are Woodsmen, Bards are Wandering Poets. I suppose a Gish base class exists to model the warrior so skilled it seems to defy reality ... a concept that feels decidedly eastern ... and here we're back to Kensai ...

Xathan · February 11, 2013, 02:11:45 AM

I'd go with Kensai if you don't mind the eastern flavor, but for a more western feel without the divine overtones, for a warrior so skilled that they defy reality:

Paragon.

That's where I would go, at least. :)

Xeviat · February 12, 2013, 01:04:18 AM

Kensai or Paragon could work, but they seem like they'd have more of a wizard/fighter feel. I could do it that way, and have the bard go back to being closer associated with the Sorcerer.

Any other ideas?

Xathan · February 12, 2013, 01:16:47 AM

Some other occur to me, Inheritor, evolutionary, evolved, exarch...though those might be a bit too divine.

HippopotamusDundee · February 12, 2013, 03:50:34 AM

The Mastered or Self-Mastered?

Numinous · February 13, 2013, 02:32:13 AM

Ascended, apotheosis, transcendent. Just dumping words.

Xeviat · February 13, 2013, 11:40:15 PM

Still reading, just don't want anyone to feel left out by me commenting on one and not others. I'm absorbing.

Kindling · February 15, 2013, 07:31:54 AM

Okay so, if you have your gish-type guy, and you have a sorcerer, and you look at them next to each other through the average normal's eyes, are they not both sorcerers? They both do magic. That is what sets them apart. One of them also knows how to use a sword, but that's kind of whatever - anyone who can afford a sword and spend a little time on practice can be a swordsman, magic is what's special about this guy.

So yeah, I think the name of the class should reflect that, like just be another word for sorcerer or something, and the fighting stuff can be a sort of by-the-by sort of thing. Maybe warlock? I know it's not what the word actually means but it does have "war" in it which gives a vague impression on a more martial kind of caster. Or if you renamed your standard sorcerer class to like magus or something, you could call the gish the sorcerer.

Xeviat · February 15, 2013, 02:17:54 PM

Kindling, you're touching upon two sides of the same problem I've been facing: giving this class an identity.

The other classes from D&D 3E, even the newcomers Monk, Barbarian, and (to a lesser extent) the Sorcerer.

- Barbarians are uncivilized warriors who use anger and passion rather than training, to prevail.
- Bards are entertainers who pick up tidbits of information as they travel, giving them a broad swath of knowledge that allows them to be a little bit of everything.
- Clerics are priests of the gods.
- Druids are priests of nature.
- Fighters are warriors who rely upon intense training and technique.
- Monks are those who perfect their body and mind through meditation and dedication.
- Paladins are divine warriors who fight for the good against evil. They are fantasy knights.
- Rangers are natural warriors who fight those who would despoil nature, emulating the hunters of the wilds. They are fantasy woodsmen and scouts.
- Rogues are experts of skills, using guile, trickery, and athleticism to get the leg up on their opponents.
- Sorcerers are magicians with otherworldly power, drawn from otherworldly bloodlines.
- Wizards are magicians with power learned through dedicated study.

So, my class is currently lacking an identity. Even those classes above that are not based upon real world things, like how the Bard, Paladin, and Ranger are, are at least based on real world concepts. The only real world concept that begins to get me into the realm of an arcane weapon user is the Kensai, or Swordsaint. Drawn from modern Japanese storytelling, and no doubt from much further back, this is a swordsman (or woman, even using another kind of weapon) whose skill defies reality. They can cut with such force that a tree in the distance is cut down by the razor sharp wind, they can see with their hearing, and they can move as fast as light.

But that vision of a Kensai (a name I don't like because it falls outside of English vernacular, unlike Monk), or Swordsaint (a name I don't like because it's a compound name, and because of the ties to a specific weapon), is more closer to a Wizard than a Sorcerer. A Kensai's talent doesn't seem tied to some innate bloodline, nor is the power innate at all. The theme feels, at least to me, like something learned. And I'm fine with that. I could move the Bard back to its association with the Sorcerer, as both were Charisma casters in 3E. While I like the idea of the Bard being a learned caster, more like 2E, as it is in theme with their abilities, so is a heavy reliance upon Charisma. A bard's power could be innate, drawn not from otherworldly blood, but from the human spirit.

Or, I could go all out on making this Gish class outwardly different from the sorcerer, even to the common folk. This is something I'd really like, because I like the idea of most people being able to be identified by their class. But the only thing I can think of along those lines, at least off the top of my head, would be someone whose otherworldly blood is so strong that they appear, outwardly, unhuman. The touched. Scions of another. Mutants with angel feathers in their hair, draconic claws, demonic eyes ... Where the sorcerer's power manifests itself as magic, which could be disguised as wizardly magic were not for their lack of a book, this class's power manifests itself physically. Their magic comes out, not as refined spells, but gouts of raw energy.

Alternately, as Kindling suggests, I could just use a synonym for Sorcerer: alchemist, augurer, charmer, clairvoyant, conjurer, diviner, enchanter, fortune-teller, magician, medium, necromancer, occultist, seer, shaman, soothsayer, sorceress, thaumaturge, warlock, witch, wizard. The reason I don't like the idea of using "warlock" is because of the "male witch" meaning I grew up with. Popular culture, though, has changed "witch" to mean "female wizard" (thanks Harry Potter), and has cemented "warlock" as an infernal, evil word. Which could fit what I'm looking for.

I need to think. Do I want a Kensai/Swordsaint running around from first level? Or is that a higher level concept, a simple multiclassing of Fighter and Wizard? Do I want a mutating, sorcerous warrior running around from first level, or is that a simple multiclassing of Fighter and Sorcerer? I know I want an arcane Gish from first level, something to fill in the hole left by merging the Psion and the Sorcerer, an alternate for the Psychic Warrior/Soul Knife/Battlemind (see, stupid compound words).

Which gish feels like the most universal?

Kindling · February 15, 2013, 07:26:14 PM

Elric was a swordsman who cast spells. He was called a sorcerer. Just sayin' :P

Xeviat · February 15, 2013, 10:42:59 PM

Kindling, there was a moment in an earlier version of what I was working on that I was going to have 3 classes per "power source". I was going to retool the Sorcerer to be the warrior/mage, especially because of the original description of the sorcerer in the 3E PHB (they gave them more weapon proficiencies and implied they were better at combat than wizards).

Right now, I'm still examining the character type; I don't even want to say archetype. In 2E, 1st level multiclass characters were possible, and 4E had the hybrid rules. If my Gish class is just a full class multiclass, it can just be handled by that. So I'm looking at the character type, trying to figure out which sort of Gish would be a 1st level character. Is it the swordsman who treats swordsmanship as an arcane art (or the bow, or the ...)? Is it the shapechanging, self-buffing caster who turns their body into a weapon? Or is it just the sorcerer whose magic comes so naturally to them they have time to learn combat skills too (which just sounds like a multiclass to me).

Xeviat · February 16, 2013, 09:02:01 PM

In a flash of inspiration, while guesting at Disneyland no less, I think I came up with a strong candidate for the gish slot. It is related to the sorcerer, like I wanted, it could exist from level one, and it has a strong identity.

The Slayer.

Many things go bump in the night. From the undead, dragons, and fiends, to the inflicted, vampires and lycanthropes, to madness from beyond. Slayers are drawn from those who have been touched by the darkness and walked away carrying a little piece of it with them. Whether they were born with the blood running through them, or they survived some brush with death, Slayers now wield that darkness as a weapon. Warriors who use dark magic as skillfully as an other swings a blade, slayers bring death to the creatures of the night.

So, the slayer shares some design space with the paladin, except that the slayer tends toward the antihero. It is a hunter, like the ranger, except where the ranger draws their skill from nature, the slayer gets it from their dark blood.

Mechanically, I may make it similar to the 3E warlock. I may also take inspiration from the psychic warrior, though I want it to have a schtick of its own outside of its spells.

Thoughts?

Xathan · February 18, 2013, 10:53:04 PM

I like that: you found an iconic image that fits into what you want to do. Slayer, someone who merges with the darkness to fight it, has the bloodline imagery you want, and unambiguous. I'd go with that: maybe even adding in something suitable for casters that is essentially a version of the Ranger's favored enemy ability, but applies its bonuses to Spell DC, ranged touch attacks, spell damage, etc.

Xeviat · February 19, 2013, 12:47:58 AM

Thanks. I really like the idea as a different take on the anti-paladin.

I do want to avoid the favored enemy thing, only because it requires a very firm social contract. Plus, it can be unbalanced easy. If the game is going to be a dragon hunting game, and the ranger picks dragon as their first favored enemy ... Unlike other systems, there aren't guidelines for how often someone's weakness or strength should come up.

What I'm going to go with, instead, is offer abilities and traits that are either reminiscent of the bloodline, or are especially useful against the bloodline (but are still useful otherwise). A Vampire Slayer might get to treat any weapon as blessed, for instance.

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