Forbidden Arts Discussion And Interest

Raelifin · June 09, 2013, 10:40:50 AM

Yes, you can get things like swampwalk. And it's mechanically different than simply having a high speed. Movement points during a move phase are assigned simultaneously, so units with more move will get to move at the end by themselves. Thus units with swampwalk or whatever will be able to move through swamps *before* other units during any given move phase, even if they have enough move points to go the same total distance.
So, for example, let's say you have a swamp beast that has two move speed but treats swamp as roads and there are some normal cavalry in an adjacent swamp hex. Even though the cavalry have more speed overall, the beast will be able to move and engage them before they have the chance to leave the hex.
(This same logic applies to flying units, which essentially have "everythingwalk".)

Primalist units start with boosts to movement through woods.

Anyone who starts with their lairs in the marsh (off the road) will be relatively safe.

Xathan · June 09, 2013, 01:03:40 PM

Quote from: Raelifin
Yes, you can get things like swampwalk. And it's mechanically different than simply having a high speed. Movement points during a move phase are assigned simultaneously, so units with more move will get to move at the end by themselves. Thus units with swampwalk or whatever will be able to move through swamps *before* other units during any given move phase, even if they have enough move points to go the same total distance.
So, for example, let's say you have a swamp beast that has two move speed but treats swamp as roads and there are some normal cavalry in an adjacent swamp hex. Even though the cavalry have more speed overall, the beast will be able to move and engage them before they have the chance to leave the hex.
(This same logic applies to flying units, which essentially have "everythingwalk".)

Also, "BLANKwalk" will be much, much easier/cheaper to research than flight or speed boosts, especially when it's useful in terrain as rare as swamplands.

QuoteAnyone who starts with their lairs in the marsh (off the road) will be relatively safe.

Given the starting location you've chosen Hum, you're going to be pretty safe from the empire or the nearby cities. Keep in mind that most anyone moving through the marsh will likely stick to the road, so if you're within 2 hexes of the road your odds of getting spotted go up dramatically but it does give you quicker access to the towns. That particular road (as with most roads that connect to port cities) will occasionally have large shipments of goods crossing them - such shipments will be well guarded, but full of goodies. Those would be the biggest threat to you early on, but it's very unlikely their guards would leave the road for ANY reason.

The only real downside to your location is there is that the roadway connects the marsh to the capitol city, so when the empire does finally believe you actually exist and are a threat they will have a shorter response time to the marsh. The UPSIDE, however, is the marsh is located in Old Drakan, so they will be slower to actually believe you're really out there and attempt to take you down. (Net result: the Empire will end up responding about as quickly as it would to anyone else, it'll just leave later but arrive slightly quicker)

Humabout · June 09, 2013, 02:18:25 PM

There is that, but as long as they don't decide to wipe me out immediately, I'm cool with that. I'll probably be pretty nice at first, anyway. Gotta keep the monsters from killing off the people so they can be saved by eternal sleep, ya know? That and dead men don't pay tolls.

Xathan · June 09, 2013, 05:01:08 PM

So, I'm working on cities right now, and figured I'd share some information that's coming up as I do so that I find vaguely interesting:

There are a total of 77 established settlements on the map at this time, not counting lairs. Of those 77 settlements, 1 is a capitol, 25 are cities, and 51 are towns. That means that there is almost a perfect 2:1 ratio of towns to cities, which seems a bit high on the city side - more towns may spring up as the game progresses.

Also, at my current rate of about 10 minutes per settlement, I should be able to have the remaining 59 settlements done enough in 9 hours and 50 minutes of uinterrupted work time. This means I will not have this ready by tonight as I had originally hoped.

If we assume the average population of a town is ~250, the average population of a city is ~1500, and the population of the capitol is ~5000, (Those numbers a rough but accurate estimates) that means that the total population that lives in established settlements on the continent is, prior the game's beginning, ~55,250 civilians.

Towns will, on average, have ~10 military personel guarding them, counting the Watch. Cities will, on average, have ~40 military personel guarding them, again counting the Watch. The Capitol has ~150 military personel guarding it. There are, roughly, about ~300 military personel on various patrols. That means the Empire's total military strength is about ~1,960 personel, which brings the total population to ~57210. These numbers do not include mercenaries, rebel organizations, Dark Artists, hermits, brigands, and other miscelaneous humans. Including those, I estimate the population of the continent to be 60,000 individuals.

Some regions of particular note:

The Middlewest has the highest density of any region for settlements, with a total of 11 settlements.

The Southeast has the highest city density of any region with a total of 5.

Southcentral has the highest ratio of cities to towns, with 3 towns and 4 cities, yet is tied with the Northwest and Middleeast for lowest number of settlements.

Thought people might find that interesting!

LD · June 09, 2013, 05:01:49 PM

It is interesting!

Humabout · June 09, 2013, 05:08:02 PM

Quite interesting. It appears I chose an area with a fair amount of military. I'll have to convince them to protect me!

Ghostman · June 09, 2013, 05:24:10 PM

Those settlement population figures are super tiny. Which is probably very good from a game mechanics POV, but it seems silly to regard them as cities. I recommend that you rename towns as villages and cities as towns to make the terminology a bit more sane.

Raelifin · June 09, 2013, 05:33:51 PM

I estimate that the population density of Aelithia is roughly 1/200th that of the eastern United States. ^_^

@Ghostman: It's all about context. While it seems strange to think of 1500 people as a city from our perspective, if there are only 60k people in the world it makes a bit more sense. In the 11th century London was only about twice the size of the Aelithia capital, IIRC.

HippopotamusDundee · June 09, 2013, 07:09:30 PM

Quote from: Raelifin
Primalist units start with boosts to movement through woods.

Can I replace that with a movement boost through the tan-coloured steppelands?

Raelifin · June 09, 2013, 07:29:59 PM

Quote from: HippopotamusDundee
Quote from: Raelifin
Primalist units start with boosts to movement through woods.

Can I replace that with a movement boost through the tan-coloured steppelands?

We've been talking about what to do for you, since you're a plains primalist. Getting a movement boost through the steppelands is one option, but Xathan will be PMing you with another option which we've discussed.

Humabout · June 09, 2013, 07:43:57 PM

This is a game and not a history lesson on the logistical concerns of cities, but I'll open this can of worms real fast and then try to jam the lid back on it.

Rael, what I think ghostman is pointing out is that the capital can completely support all of its citizens from within its own hex. It doesn't need an empire. It's probably nitpicking over scale as much as anything, but given those populations, the countryside could support a city in every hex and still have food left over for a Capital-scale city every four or so hexes, so long as the aren't outright hostile to agriculture (e.g., mountains, marshland, etc.).

Personally, I don't care as long as the mechanics work and the feel is right. The map looks good with the number and spacing of settlements. It should be just fine, as long as the populations are numerous and willing enough to help me bring an age of peace to the world!

Xathan · June 09, 2013, 08:17:06 PM

Hippo: you'll get that pm later tonight, since I'm at work and therefore on phone. But don't worry, your choice of landscape is not going to harm you. :)

Raelfin: hah, that puts the size in perspective, that's for sure.

Ghostman: in all honesty, calling them villages and towns would probably be more accurate, but city and town was chosen because a) towns and village differences are so minor it's hard to really get the sense of threat attacking a city presents; all cities have big stone walls around them, which no other word that makes sense really drives home. Also, the average peasant is going to have basic stats: balance mandates the smaller size.

Humabout: it's true any of the cities/town should be able to support its own basic needs, and most can. The empire exists in the interest of stability and also for needs beyond the basic: precious metals, fine woods, spices, esoteric spell components, etc. Also, the life is theocratic; spreading the faith is part of the reason it exists too. :)

Unrelated: I have finished 35 settlements if I counted right in a basic, two sentence form. If I keep up this pace for the remainder of the day, I'll definitely have the north done by the end of work, and a good portion of the middle. Will post any section I have done before I crash for the night. :D of course I'll expand them later, but I wanted to get a basic version up.

Nomadic · June 09, 2013, 09:36:39 PM

I hate to bring it up this far in xathan but depending on your process for creating towns I could probably have whipped you up a random settlement generator in a matter of minutes. I don't know what all the information you need for a settlement is though.

Also has Rael gotten back to you about our ideas we discussed on IRC the other night?

Xathan · June 09, 2013, 09:54:48 PM

Well, you can see the entire north now: a generator to help with the other 45 cities and towns I have would be phenomenal. :) then I can flesh them out more!

And not yet, he's busy with City update for next couple of days.

sparkletwist · June 09, 2013, 10:44:05 PM

For that matter, using sparkbot, you could make one yourself. :D

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