The Campaign Builder's Guild

Just a head's up that I'll probably be around closer to 1 than noon.

I'm 100% out now.

Quote from: Steerpike
Just a head's up that I'll probably be around closer to 1 than noon.

I'll be showing up at 1 or just after.

I am here. :D

Many thanks for all who turned out for the Tenebrous game.  It was a slightly slower start than I'd hoped for, but we at least made it through some of the initial sections.  Much more weirdness, horror, and action remains - we kind of only scratched the surface.  If people had fun and would be up for more sessions I am certainly open to GMing them.  I will look into getting some logs up in case others want to join in!

First of all, I would like to make two disclaimers. First, I know that I can sometimes be a bit harsh, but it is not my intention to insult or offend anyone; I am simply trying to give you honest and constructive critique as to what I feel did not go well in the game. Second, connection issues are a problem, and they're generally nobody's fault. I'm not blaming you, Superbright or anyone else for the evil whims of Mibbit. These things happen and they certainly contributed greatly to the somewhat rocky start.

That said, I am a fan of the "cold open." While I understand that it's necessary to give some background information and get us into the plot, I also think much of what we were sitting there on IRC reading could have been posted as a forum post in advance. I think it can be enormously beneficial (and have enjoyed it, in other games I have played and GMed) to somewhat throw the group into the adventure, rather than let them slowly meander up to it. It's more engaging, and if the session slows down a little afterwards to get to more of the investigation and exposition, there is at least that original excitement to keep us going, rather than... well, waiting for something to happen. I felt like you were saying you had to go right about the time that session actually started going somewhere.

Secondly, I think there is a big problem with Mandrake-- I'm not taking issue with SA's portrayal of Mandrake, mind you-- but I was under the impression that its maiming voice did not hurt other Tenebrae. It apparently does, which I believe to be a poor design decision. Given that, in order to include Mandrake in the party, the assumption is made for each character that the character knows and can perceive its sign language, and the character is paying attention to Mandrake any time it wishes to communicate. The first assumption is not entirely unreasonable, although it does probably prevent someone like Daredevil from joining the team, and, quite honestly, from a player agency standpoint I bristle slightly that it's basically assumed my character knows this sign language even though I never specified that she does. The second problem, I think, gets more difficult. Will everyone always be looking at Mandrake whenever it has something worthwhile to communicate? What about if the team needs to split up? For that matter, what about in combat when everyone is going about their own business and there is a lot of chaos going on-- the power is useless unless it can somehow signal to its allies to cover their ears, after all. I think that any verisimilitude gained by affecting everyone is lost when trying to think of the convoluted or contrived ways that they'd have to attempt to communicate during typical adventuring situations.

So that's my two cents. Do with it what you will.

Quote from: sparkletwistWhile I understand that it's necessary to give some background information and get us into the plot, I also think much of what we were sitting there on IRC reading could have been posted as a forum post in advance. I think it can be enormously beneficial (and have enjoyed it, in other games I have played and GMed) to somewhat throw the group into the adventure, rather than let them slowly meander up to it. It's more engaging, and if the session slows down a little afterwards to get to more of the investigation and exposition, there is at least that original excitement to keep us going, rather than... well, waiting for something to happen. I felt like you were saying you had to go right about the time that session actually started going somewhere.

I completely agree here.  I regret not posting at least the first major chunk of the opening on the forum beforehand.  Should have done that, definitely.  The connection issues exacerbated the lengthy intro (not Superbright's fault, but it did happen).  We were forced to play for less time than I'd hoped, so this made things worse.  So I will basically plead mea culpa here.  The intention of the briefing was to contextualize the adventure, provide an opportunity for people to get into character, discuss tactics and approach, and get a sense of the Tenebrae organization and its operations, kind of like how in Sixguns I usually start on the ship with people discussing the current mission.  I think in future "episodes" I may begin more in media res, though.

Quote from: sparkletwistSecondly, I think there is a big problem with Mandrake-- I'm not taking issue with SA's portrayal of Mandrake, mind you-- but I was under the impression that its maiming voice did not hurt other Tenebrae. It apparently does, which I believe to be a poor design decision. Given that, in order to include Mandrake in the party, the assumption is made for each character that the character knows and can perceive its sign language, and the character is paying attention to Mandrake any time it wishes to communicate. The first assumption is not entirely unreasonable, although it does probably prevent someone like Daredevil from joining the team, and, quite honestly, from a player agency standpoint I bristle slightly that it's basically assumed my character knows this sign language even though I never specified that she does. The second problem, I think, gets more difficult. Will everyone always be looking at Mandrake whenever it has something worthwhile to communicate? What about if the team needs to split up? For that matter, what about in combat when everyone is going about their own business and there is a lot of chaos going on-- the power is useless unless it can somehow signal to its allies to cover their ears, after all. I think that any verisimilitude gained by affecting everyone is lost when trying to think of the convoluted or contrived ways that they'd have to attempt to communicate during typical adventuring situations.

The assumption is indeed that all Tenebrae know sign language in the same sense that they're assumed to have been trained in firearms, weapons use, at least basic occult knowledge, etc.  The assumption is that the organization provides this training and that when Mandrake needs to communicate, characters automatically look to it; for all intents and purposes Mandrake is as fully intelligible as other characters.  It would have a special sign known to the Tenebrae to indicate that it's about to use its voice.  In short, I am operating under the assumption that as far as intra-group communication goes Mandrake has no communication problems (it's only a big deal when it's interacting with NPCs).  Note also that creatures like Hel, Abyzou, and Endgame are immune to its voice because they're functionally immortals of one sort or another.

If the team needs to split up then it makes sense for Mandrake to be paired with someone who can then automatically relay/interpret its sign over a comm, although note that Mandrake can literally split itself into individual Mandrakes so Mandrake does have unique skills when it comes to splitting up.

Quote from: SteerpikeI think in future "episodes" I may begin more in media res, though.

I eagerly endorse this. :D

Quote from: SteerpikeIn short, I am operating under the assumption that as far as intra-group communication goes Mandrake has no communication problems

Exactly. You've created this whole contrived structure that still has verisimilitude problems (What if a team member is off around a corner and can't see the special sign? Do we have to RP out yelling to that person? Why are we bothering with this?) could have been easily replaced by just saying "No, Mandrake's voice won't hurt other PCs."

I don't like the idea that Mandrake's voice magically doesn't affect other PCs.  This seems too arbitrary to me.

Better idea: in future adventures, Mandrake can get a voice-modulator that negates its voice's maiming effect, allowing him to talk with computerized aid.  To use its maiming ability it just removes/deactivates the modulator.  Does that sound like a workable solution?

Quote from: SteerpikeI don't like the idea that Mandrake's voice magically doesn't affect other PCs.  This seems too arbitrary to me.

It does strain verisimilitude a little, but who knows what training/powers/whatever the team would have?

But yeah. It's ultimately up to you (or SA or whoever ends up playing Mandrake, I guess) but for what it's worth I think that computer-voice-modulator thingy is pretty slick.

There are (in the context of science fiction at least) gloves that translate sign language into mechanical speech, or it could maybe employ some sort of subvocal microphone to keep its hands free? In either case, the speech itself wouldn't fool anybody as natural. I thought the indiscriminately maiming voice was a nice mechanical balance for a preternaturally strong, durable construct who can flawlessly mimic anyone's appearance and turn its hands into knives, since it forces the players to think creatively if they're trying some covert infiltration.

Apologies about the connection problems. Cost of me trying to play in a tornado, I suppose. I have a ton of issues of my own with how I portrayed Mollusc (couldn't decide if I wanted it to be more Mordin Sollus or alien Steve Rogers) and not having any OOC idea of what Quadra was capable of until immediately before play started sort of threw me, but overall I thought everyone else did great.

Quote from: SuperbrightI thought the indiscriminately maiming voice was a nice mechanical balance for a preternaturally strong, durable construct who can flawlessly mimic anyone's appearance and turn its hands into knives, since it forces the players to think creatively if they're trying some covert infiltration.

Thanks!  This is exactly the tradeoff I was hoping to play on.  Mandrake is super powerful in a lot of ways, so the maiming voice is deliberately meant as a kind of handicap it has to work around - I just don't want that to mean it's less fun to play.

I'm really glad you persevered!  I thought you did a great job with Mollusc.

I wasn't the one playing Mandrake, so please take my objections with a grain of salt. I'll just point out (since I can't resist) that giving the PCs "magic immunity" but not extending it any further preserves the social handicap you were trying to create.

Also, sorry about not getting Quadra up in advance. That's partially my fault because I didn't even present Steerpike with the character concept until like 3 days before the game.

If I'd prepared in advance I'd probably have played Cruor or Abyzou. I picked Mandrake because I'm rarely a player rather than a GM and I've never played online, so Mandrake's communication problems were fine with me (I'd have had no issue with being unable to communicate when the shit hits). But the next person who plays It may disagree.

Quote from: sparkletwistI'll just point out (since I can't resist) that giving the PCs "magic immunity" but not extending it any further preserves the social handicap you were trying to create.

You're quite right.  I think the voice emulator thingy does both jobs: keeps the social handicap while also facilitating communication, in a way that preserves verisimilitude.  If there's some way of circumventing Mandrake's voice through training or something, it seems to me that well-prepared enemies would know about it, so the emulator helps to keep the voice's powers from being neutered.