The Campaign Builder's Guild

So I'm thinking of running another game soon, and naturally that got me thinking about the system as well as all of the setting elements and themes I've been revising in my head over the past year or so. This thread is intended to accommodate both the development of the ruleset we'll be using and to allow me to figure out some general setting stuff without starting up a new thread or renovating an old thread for the setting.

SCHEDULING DOODLE (ignore dates; this is just general days of the week with times people can make) http://doodle.com/32fyxemwa43ef3a5

Current Roster (May change after scheduling analysis)

sparkletwist (Cleric/Ranger)
Numinous (Witch)
MagnusPym (Barbarian or Rogue)
Polycarp (Fighter)
Steerpike (Cavalier or Inquisitor)
HippopotamusDundee (Druid)
Llum (Oracle/Rogue [was mentioned in chat but not expected to play, will leave it here just in case])
SA (wizard)
Nomadic (co-GM/guest roles/Thatch, First Knight of Gilbany)

Did I forget anyone? I've talked to a lot of people about possibly playing the last few weeks.

Thatch is so excited he dressed up! (not actually my photo)



Game Mechanics

-Pathfinder e7
-7th is either a new level in your base class (if it is beneficial) or, alternatively, a level in a PrC from the approved list regardless of whether or not your meet the prerequisites (this includes wildly opposing character themes if you think it'd be cool and can come up with a good reason)
-All skills are class skills, everyone gets an extra feat and extra skill point at each level (in addition to the normal level progression feats)
-We're using the feat changes listed here: http://theworldissquare.com/feat-taxes-in-pathfinder/ . Should help make martial types more fun. Deft Maneuvers still makes feinting a move action. Bonuses given apply to CMB and CMD.
-3rd-level characters to start. Ability scores are 17, 15, 15, 13, 13, 11 arrange as desired. You may choose elf, dwarf, half-elf or half-orc as a race if you really want to for the stats/features but you're still of typical human size and appearance, just maybe a bit off.
-Animate Dead is a 2nd-level spell available to all full caster classes.
-Improved Unarmed Strike is a free feat for martial classes.
-If your class only receives 2 skill points/level, it now receives 4
-Every character gets an ability increase at 4th-level and again at 6th
-I don't like the way exotic weapon proficiencies work. Consider them martial for this game, but make sure to talk to me about choices first as some of them don't exist in the setting.
-you can spend 15 minutes or however long it takes to prepare one spell and change what you have prepared in a slot you haven't expended yet

Classes
That fit: Barbarian, Bard, Cavalier, Druid, Fighter, Inquisitor, Oracle, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Witch, Wizard
That don't fit: Alchemist, Cleric, Gunslinger, Monk, Sorcerer, Summoner
That could be made to fit: Cleric, Magus, Samurai

Note: None of these that don't fit are banned outright, it is just that the "default" fluff doesn't fit in Haveneast

Setting Stuff
-Demon-Gods and Associations (WIP): Moose (fear), Horse (storms), Goat (death), Snapping Turtle (the harvest), Bear (the lost), Whale (wrath), Coyote (famine), Snake (madness), Hawk (war), Owl (magic)

-No heaven/hell parallels. Nearest equivalent is a fabled outworld (the Inaershch), a seemingly endless series of supernatural domains connected by seemingly random or hidden pathways and/or techniques. Some of these are tiny domains as small as a single room; some are infinite (and yet contained within a smaller space if you were to draw a map of the Inaershch). Yes, this is heavily inspired by Lordran Dark Souls if you are wondering or have heard me ramble about it before :). Hopefully that will give one an idea of how some transitions between areas take place (long ladders, mysterious lifts, shattered stone walls leading into darkness, occasional leaps of faith, etc.)

-Reimagining power levels. Gods are killable. Gods aren't gods, they're mortals who've amassed power through experience, or are just powerful demons and the like (the example I keep using is that a Pathfinder Glabrezu would serve as an appropriate example of a "god"
-Still want to include angels. Given that religion in Haveneast takes a different form (there's no direct parallel to Christianity or any other religions in that vein) and the "enlightened" knights and their cultures follow more of a set of loose philosophies, my current inclination is to make angels raw manifestations of magic as a fundamental force. More on this as I figure it out.

The Dead Empire Crusade

Haveneast has had its magic level turned up slightly. While I am still shooting for a low-magic setting, my idea for a new campaign involves a declared crusade into an eastern kingdom that was corrupted and transformed into a dark, unforgiving realm of the undead. Naturally, that means the PCs are either members of a knightly order or have been commissioned or ordered to take part in this sacred crusade to reclaim the land. Who wants to smash some skeletons?

This post will be updated fairly often with new stuff. Feel free to post in the thread if you have suggestions or want to know more about the upcoming game.


THIS SECTION OUTDATED


Haveneast

The Lord Vicar of Hawnil has declared a cessation of hostilities on the western coast, and ordered all of those without binding duties and capable of hefting a sword to make for Arcanathraan, east of Gilbany, where the dead have turned the once-glorious land into a place of gloom and horror. It has been one year to the day since Arcanathraan fell, and nothing has been heard of those who did not escape the initial onslaught. It is speculated that various lords of the countryside may yet survive within the walls of their fortresses, and in addition to the rescue mission it has been determined that the knights of the West will cleanse and occupy the territory to prevent the tripartite alliance of Angorad, Lustolia and Perovia from making sovereign claim of the kingdom. Hildandi, the Knight of the Heavens and war consular to the Vicar has warned that this is no simple fight against humanity and urged that would-be crusaders do not journey ill-equipped and without the support of a warband.

[spoiler=Guilds]

The Vicar's call to arms has spurred many warriors and mercenaries into battle. Some are listed below:

The Knights of the Raven

Campaign Commander: Marchioness Aerne Kildragon of Gilbria
Strength: 40 knights, 200 soldiers, unknown mercenaries
Objective: Magnul Pass (east Arcanathraan)

The furthest venturing of the involved orders, the Marchioness of Gilbany's northern border has mustered a significant company and moved eastward in response to increasing boldness from Atagian and Hemnict barbarians. Knowing the barbarians will seek to seize the rich sources of iron, gold and lumber in the heart of the ruined kingdom, this contingent intends to reach Magnul Pass and prevent the Atagians and Hemnicts from using it as a quick way into the country's heart.

The Knights of the Raven are knights with some capability in magic. They wear black and purple garments.

The Guild of the Eagle

Campaign Commander: Horulchyd the Cruel, Prince of Tybetyr
Strength: 4-7 mixed specialists, 2 Shield-Swords, 5 retainers, 1 knight-observer
Objective: Castle Durg, Castle Acarthaan, Primwill Keep, Castle-on-Jugor

A special band ordered by the Vicar herself, the Guild of the Eagle has dispatched a party to Castle Barrawog, from which they will make incursions into infested territory. The goal is to recover surviving members of the House of Tybetzk, or, failing that, secure the royal heirlooms that allow claim to the throne of Arcanathraan. The leader of the Eagle warband has close ties to the conflict, as he is destined to take the throne in Arcanathraan should his father and his brother Purgolt are deceased. Having left just before the outbreak and having not heard from House Tybetzk since, Prince Horulchyd rushes to the kingdom for fear of the barbarians reaching it first.

Eagle coat of arms are primarily midnight green with black and silver touches.

The Winter Lions

Campaign Commander: Crown Prince Granvald iz Ilander, Duke of Thasalreach
Strength: 100 knights and spearmen, 7 warlocks, 50 Gilbanian Legionnaires
Objective: Cleansing of main roads and villages; reaching Wolfgate to establish contact with Verkemian crusaders from the east

Defying the King's wishes to stay clear of the undead , Granvald has organized his own warband with intent to make the roads between cities in Arcanathraan safer and easier to traverse. This complicates the nature of the danger in Arcanathraan, as opposing factions from both the barbarian fronts and the Angorian border know Gilbany, with only one living heir to the throne, would be brought to its knees should the Crown Prince fall.

The Winter Lions wear light blue with a white lion's head in the center, bordered by dark green.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Opposing Factions]

The Bringers of Steel

Once a stalwart ally of Kangdemar and its lords, the Bringers of Steel betrayed the West in the recent Heartland War and now operate from Angorad in the north. Seeking to seize the land for the Angorian princes, who under their seemingly ageless queen grow tired of squabbling over petty holds and desire to divide Arcanathraan among themselves. The Steel work to cleanse Arcanathraan and also to slay any crusaders from the West.

The Bringers of Steel wear black and yellow tabards, typically with full helms.

Atagia

The fledgling kingdom Atagia is one of the kingdoms to arise in the wake of the Heartland War, wherein the kingdom of Haviland fell only five years ago. It lies on the northeastern border of Gilbany, separated by low mountains that eventually slope upward into the Arcadians in central Arcanathraan. The Atagians are an ancient people lacking in the modern luxuries often enjoyed by the West, and were it not for the support of Angorad, Lustolia and Perovia, Atagia would not pose a serious threat to Gilbany or its allies. The kingdom began when Warskaria first fractured, allowing hostile peoples to sail unhindered from the Isles of Kerroe, through the northern pass and land on the Havilian shore; their invading brutes pillaging and burning much of the countryside. The Heartland War began when Gilbany and Warskaria marched eastward to attempt to halt the horde of Atagian barbarians from conquering Haviland uncontested. Having designs on the Havilian soil and the ores in its mountains,  Angorad allowed its former ally to be overrun and then quickly rushed to aid the Atagians and Hemnicts in repelling the West. Angorad has an unknown number of foot soldiers and cavalry situated on the Atagian side of this barrier, known as the Sorcata Range.

Atagian warriors specialize in small loads, simple equipment and light weaponry and as a result are a very mobile force, given to ambush tactics and archery to gain an advantage over the disciplined, armored and often mounted warriors of the West.

Hemnia

The Hemnicts, like the Atagians, are a weak people without the protection of Angorad, Lustolia, and Perovia. Also like Atagia, their leaders are of Kerric descent and formed a pact with the Atagian warlords to split Haviland up. The Hemnicts are otherwise much the same, as is the region they dwell in, however they are among the most spiritual of all peoples now a part of Haveneast, and are viewed with particular animosity by the West for cavorting too carelessly with the sinister demons the pagans of the West revere reluctantly. In a mockery of the former kingdom of Haviland, the Hemnian rulership wear headdresses like many on the continent, understanding that the adornments are sacred to the native peoples.

[/spoiler]

Gods and Religion in Haveneast

There are no direct analogs to any current religions in Haveneast; there are pagan pantheons, animism, and more modern philosophical movements that various nations aspire to (it wouldn't be unrealistic for you to hear a king at coronation declare the country to be adopting a more humanist and utilitarian approach to society). People who worship typically practice expiation, performing acts ranging from the burning of incense to a would-be hero's journey depending on the nature of their desire and the environment they are in; some local spirits may prove particularly malevolent if these needs are not met. Shrines may sometimes be hastily constructed in private locations by unpracticed petitioners, and in these cases the bastardized

[spoiler=Pagan Demon Gods]
Megalu, Turtle Demon

Known chiefly as the god of the harvest, Megalu's likeness is that of a giant, char-black turtle with a shell made of ashen bone and glowing yellow eyes. Megalu is appeased by pagans whose lives revolve closely around the sprawling farmlands, with special importance in countries like Gilbany, Arcanathraan, and the Plains of Storms. A typical sacrifice to Megalu is a small offering of wheat, corn, or another cultivated plant left on an altar to rot.

Abisai, Horse Demon

The wasting, rotting equine form of Abisai is associated with weather and disasters such as the tornadoes of the plainlands and the fierce snowstorms of the northwest. Abisai's favor is sought when the forests of northern Gilbany are dry and in need of rain to quench the wildfires as often as he is offered sacrifice for fear of the coming storm season. His encompassing relation makes him a well-known and widespread entity whose shrines can be found quite often in the wilderness, particularly at random on the Great Plain southeast of Arcanathraan. A typical sacrifice to Abisai involves a clay vessel to be shattered, but more sinister rituals involve the forceful drowning of small creatures as a gruesome tribute.

Axaycatl, Coyote Demon

Axaycatl (sometimes pronounced 'axe-cattle') is the essence of pestilence, but also the dark patron of secrets and appears as an oversized, ageless coyote with wicked features and fur made black by altogether too much dried blood. Savage and wrathful, the coyote demon has wrought plague upon kingdoms seemingly at random. She is particularly difficult to please as a prayer must be spoken over rotting organic material, but it must be done in Old Ingari, an ancient language few can speak. Axaycatl's shrines are usually small stone structures with small troughs dug in a symmetric pattern on the floor. In the center sits a coyote effigy that must be decorated with the flora of the season. These are often built very close to priests' longhouses in the south but in the West are found on the edges of small fields in loosely-packed forests.

Umgamet, Moose Demon

The embodiment of fear, Umgamet is a huge, primal-looking moose with glowing eyes and an unnerving gaze. He is unique in that prayers and offerings are undesired (or at least ineffective), but for fear of the Witching Week and the Night of Two Souls (pagan "holidays"), people sometimes seek to appease him. Umgamet is associated with things that go bump in the night and that lurk just beyond the trees; many a warrior has sought to wear the moose's likeness into battle, and in cooler regions of the West it is considered a rite of passage into adulthood for an adolescent noble to put down a bull moose.

Methecus, Goat Demon

Also known as the Goat-Witch and Rottinghorn, the demon known as Methecus is the lord of the undead and patron of dark magic. His avatar is a large goat-man whose form is decayed, his fur often hanging unnaturally from the skeleton that remains. Gruesome offerings to Methecus are not unheard of, usually from the distraught or insane but also from warlords who worship him as a deliverer of power. Other than severed body parts or excised organs, the only method by which to summon the attention of Rottinghorn is to burn the rare Ingarian Lotus found growing sporadically throughout the West, particularly on old and abandoned paths.

Hlohovah, Bear Demon

[/spoiler]
more coming

Perhaps angels re manifestations of what the people consider good?  Like the opposite of warhammer daemons.  Perhaps angels from different cultures have different personalities, and mad cultists are striving to create evil angels by engendering some really twisted morality in people?

I am interested in how Clerics don't fit and could be made to fit, as my "new" character for this setting was a Cleric.
(Of course, when picking that Cleric's patron god, I would have a hard time picking anything other than the Horse.)

Having played a Sorceress in this setting already, I'm also curious how Sorcerers don't fit-- especially since you turned up the magic level.

Clerics don't really fit the setting because the class kind of implies a connection with the divine on a level not really present in Haveneast. They are still playable  but thematically I think it is more off than druid, inquisitor, paladin and oracle. They would be viewed more like a wizard.

Sorcerers don't fit but I think Lisette's backstory will, as I want to turn sorcerer powers into something you can enter into a pact for and trade some aspect of you for it. I'm still developing this but I want a few different ways to access magic.

Humabout, I like that idea but that is probably going to be only one depiction of them. I want angels to be more chaotic to represent the force of magic, so there will be some like that but "evil" ones definitely are already a part too. They're essentially my creatures from beyond sort of thing.

One thing I would encourage would be to consider the fluff and crunch of classes somewhat separately.
Something like Monk is a good class to leave out on both counts because its fluff doesn't fit at all and mechanically it is a terrible class, but some classes like Sorcerer and Cleric may not have suitable fluff but are mechanically sound and on some level the game doesn't really "feel like Pathfinder" if you leave them out. So I encourage you to re-fluff rather than just exclude, like you have already started to do-- viewing the power sources of Clerics differently (even vanilla PF somewhat supports this, with Clerics that don't have a specific deity) and rethinking the sources of Sorcerer power and whatnot. There are probably ways to change the fluff around to make Alchemists and Summoners fit too, which might be a good idea unless you really hate their mechanics as well.

Yeah. I'm not banning them outright but fluff-wise the list is pretty accurate, I should've clarified. Just means you can't really fit the PF concept in, although gunslinger just plain doesn't work so I should probably just say it isn't allowed.

I'm assuming that Gunslinger doesn't work mainly because of its reliance on guns, which you don't want to support in Haveneast. However, one option is to change its rules slightly so that its various bonuses and abilities can be applied to crossbows, thrown weapons, or whatever. This gives another ranged combat option-- which is nice, since those are kind of lacking in Pathfinder.

Quote from: HoersSo I'm thinking of running another game soon

Hooray... well, not that I would have time now, but a theoretical "hooray" anyway.

Quoteor, alternatively, a level in a PrC from the approved list regardless of whether or not your meet the prerequisites

Interesting, though I wonder how many PrCs have anything worthwhile in their first level.  For some PrCs like Duelist or DD it's basically pointless (+1 to AC, yay).  Even if it is worthwhile, it's usually just one ability - for a shadowdancer it's basically sacrificing a level for HiPS, while for an arcane archer it's Enhance Arrow +1, and so on.  At that point I'd wonder if it wouldn't be better to throw out PrCs and just give PrC-like bonuses as if they were feats, either for hitting 7th or as "bonuses" after 7th.  Granted, that probably requires more system design work.

QuoteAll skills are class skills, everyone gets an extra feat and extra skill point at each level

I still dislike this, but you know that already :P

Interesting that demons are animals.  What does this mean to druids/rangers and such, I wonder?  Is the natural world considered somewhat threatening/demonic as a result?  That wouldn't surprise me in Ath (scary woods) but it's notable as a setting-wide phenomenon.

Regarding angels, you could also make them - to use simple alignment terms - more "law" and less "good."  Rather than manifestations of magic, perhaps they're the keepers of the cosmic order, charged with maintaining all those supernatural domains and the structure/composition of the world against possibly meddlesome "gods" (who are, after all, only upstart mortals anyway).

NNNOOooooo! Horse, why not come back where we previously left? I loved my barbarian...

Quote from: sparkletwist
I'm assuming that Gunslinger doesn't work mainly because of its reliance on guns, which you don't want to support in Haveneast. However, one option is to change its rules slightly so that its various bonuses and abilities can be applied to crossbows, thrown weapons, or whatever. This gives another ranged combat option-- which is nice, since those are kind of lacking in Pathfinder.

Yeah, it could be refit for crossbows. I'd be okay with something like a less high-power Demon Hunter from D3 running around.

Quote from: Polycarp

Quote from: HoersSo I'm thinking of running another game soon

Hooray... well, not that I would have time now, but a theoretical "hooray" anyway.

Quoteor, alternatively, a level in a PrC from the approved list regardless of whether or not your meet the prerequisites

Interesting, though I wonder how many PrCs have anything worthwhile in their first level.  For some PrCs like Duelist or DD it's basically pointless (+1 to AC, yay).  Even if it is worthwhile, it's usually just one ability - for a shadowdancer it's basically sacrificing a level for HiPS, while for an arcane archer it's Enhance Arrow +1, and so on.  At that point I'd wonder if it wouldn't be better to throw out PrCs and just give PrC-like bonuses as if they were feats, either for hitting 7th or as "bonuses" after 7th.  Granted, that probably requires more system design work.

QuoteAll skills are class skills, everyone gets an extra feat and extra skill point at each level

I still dislike this, but you know that already :P

Interesting that demons are animals.  What does this mean to druids/rangers and such, I wonder?  Is the natural world considered somewhat threatening/demonic as a result?  That wouldn't surprise me in Ath (scary woods) but it's notable as a setting-wide phenomenon.

Regarding angels, you could also make them - to use simple alignment terms - more "law" and less "good."  Rather than manifestations of magic, perhaps they're the keepers of the cosmic order, charged with maintaining all those supernatural domains and the structure/composition of the world against possibly meddlesome "gods" (who are, after all, only upstart mortals anyway).

The 7th-level thing with PrCs is admittedly not a very nice choice given the way most PrCs are no longer frontloaded, but there are a few that would be worth it (such as the arcane archer, which you mentioned in the chat). Keep in mind too that when I say you can take a level in it without meeting all the prerequisites, a 6th-level fighter for example could take a level in arcane archer without having the ability to cast spells. Still, I expect most levels would just be taken in the base classes or as a dip into another class.

Druids and rangers operate mostly the same, however they almost take on a bit more of the priestly role given their association with nature and the way most deific entities are demonic anthropomorphs. Some people in Haveneast refer to common animals as aspects of said gods, but actually encountering the god or one of its minions clearly shows the difference. The increased level of hostility throughout the setting ties well with the overall way I want magic and the supernatural to kind of seep into the setting through the wild, unexplored, unknown and forgotten/ruined areas of the setting. You aren't likely to see much supernatural stuff near a large city, but if you're in the middle of the Gilbanian Highlands in the dead of winter your compatriots might be unnerved for fear of running into something.

I like the angel idea. It still kind of works with their chaotic mentalities in a sense. I think I'll make fallen angels (as always) and have them be the truly destructive ones (or maybe just have them seem a little more like Tyrael from Diablo?)

Quote from: Magnus Pym
NNNOOooooo! Horse, why not come back where we previously left? I loved my barbarian...

I would've just tried rebooting the campaign but I lost most of my logs a while ago in a system wipe. :( I don't want the stories of the previous characters to fizzle out though, so I think over time we'll develop a timeline or something for them, maybe even have them appear in some fashion in future games.

Ok, well I'd be interested. I'd probably play a rogue-type character, or another barbarian. We'll see when the time comes.

I'm potentially interested, somewhat depending on times/frequency of play.  I'd probably play as an Inquisitor or maybe a Cavalier as they're kind of underused I think.  Maybe a mutilated knight covered in scars from a demonic ritual gone wrong, or a master medieval detective along the lines of William of Baskerville.

Most excellent. I'll be putting up a Doodle vote as soon as I've finished my exam. Inquisitor or Cavalier would be awesome; that would put us at a theoretical group makeup of Cleric, Inquisitor or Cavalier, and Rogue or Barbarian with room for a couple of others. We could definitely use an arcane caster. Also I hope it's clear from the description that undead will be the major focus of the campaign, so it'll really come in handy if there's a character or two who's really really good at bashing (bare) skulls.

Is there any more room in this merry band?

Quote from: Numinous
Is there any more room in this merry band?

We haven't actually solidified a group or scheduled times yet, so definitely! When I get around to posting the scheduler we'll see who can play and when. I'm willing to go as high as 6 characters in the party.