The Campaign Builder's Guild

Increasing the level of magic missile doesn't increase the amount of damage. It only increases the number of darts. Each dart still only deals 1d4+1 damage. So, the only way to increase damage is to fire more darts at any one enemy, and that decreases the number of possible targets. If you try to hit any "large hordes" with magic missiles, you're only going to be doing 1d4+1 (or possibly 2d4+2) damage to each one. Something like chain lightning is probably a lot better choice for a high-level caster that wants to hit groups that are spread around.

Yup. Magic Missile and the way multiple attacks spread their damage doesn't appeal to me. Spreading your damage to two targets should decrease your damage to 75%, not to 50%. MM may still have an advantage with ranges, and it has the added advantages of no attack roll (though lots of stuff is Dex save for half, so you're guaranteed something) and a less resistable damage type.

I'm still not sure I like the spell scaling. I think it will make it harder to balance an MP system.

Remember though, even at 20th level a goblin will still be a threat. Goblins are not going to have much more than 1d4+1 HP. Additionally the advantage of Magic Missile is that you can attack anyone within 100 feet of you, they do not need to be grouped up at all. You effectively can hit two people that are two hundred feet away from one another. Few spells have that kind of range.

I'm not saying it is better than Fireball in most situations (it isn't) but a case ca be made for its use even at high levels.

No, at 20th level, "a goblin" is not a threat... but a lot of them are. And if there are a lot of goblins, then there are going to be some of them grouped up, and there will be better spells to use than magic missile. I mean, you can cast blade barrier or something, which doesn't have quite the reach, but it still can reach 100 feet and it does a ton more damage and lasts for 10 minutes.

You can probably come up with a situation contrived enough where 11 pinpoint attacks for piddly damage is exactly what is needed and no other high level spell is better suited, but... at that point, so what? This looks like a job for Aquaman!

Generally, the way I think of things, you're not supposed to want to cast low level spells till you've used up your high level ones - or, alternately, you use your low level spells before your high level ones because you're saving the high level ones for a boss fight or something.  Basically, I don't think that higher level spells should just be scaled-up low-level ones.  Sure the low-level spells might occasionally have some particularities that make them preferable in certain situations, but essentially they're just all-around worse than the high level ones - hence why they're low level and can be cast frequently.

I dunno, that makes sense to me.

Quote from: sparkletwistYeah, seriously. It's even worse because the rules as written for meteor swarm suggest that each and every creature in the burst area needs to have a separate 40d6 rolled for it.

I agree the wording of the spell is bad but I don't think, grammatically, that this interpretation is the only possible one technically speaking.

Quote from: SteerpikeSure the low-level spells might occasionally have some particularities that make them preferable in certain situations, but essentially they're just all-around worse than the high level ones - hence why they're low level and can be cast frequently.

I feel this way too, and analysis of the actual spells seems to generally support this assertion, at least as far as I've seen.

Quote from: SteerpikeI agree the wording of the spell is bad but I don't think, grammatically, that this interpretation is the only possible one technically speaking.

Yes, it's probably intended that you only roll dice once. But still, that's "only" rolling 40 dice. :P

Yeah, it's pretty nuts.

On the other hand I kind of like the idea of a spell so insane that you need to go out and buy extra dice for it, and the visual of 40d6 raining down on a gaming table kind of fits the spell in a funny way.

My only point was that low level spells are not entirely useless if used as a higher level spell. There are niche occasions when it may be mildly beneficial (especially if you do not have a better spell prepared (which, let's be honest here, Evocation is still the red haired step child of Wizard spells).  Using Magic Missile as a 9th level spell is extreme, especially with how stupid powerful high level spells are.

Still, at least a very niche case can be made for Magic Missile. Fireball becomes utterly useless as a higher level spell after you get Delayed Blast Fireball and Meteor Swarm (which again, blows every other attack spell out of the water by a massive margin).  

EDIT: Upping a spell is most useful when you are only upping it a level or two and do not have a better spell prepared. Additionally, I think it is geared much more for the first through fifth level spells, which are basically your bread and butter. 6th-9th are for your stupidly powerful spells that you get to use only once or twice a day. Remember, with Arcane Recovery, you get a small number of slots back once per day, which gives you the wiggle room to use an spell inefficient  if the need arises.

Quote from: sparkletwist
This looks like a job for Aquaman!

You must not read Aquaman comics. Forget the aquatic telepathy, his ability to swim fast enough to travel up the Niagara Falls, his super hearing and his ability to see in the dark for a moment. His other two powers - Super Strength and Super Durability - are equal to or even exceeds most other heroes. Don't be fooled by that silly Super Friends version of the character, Aquaman is amazing. :)