The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: Magnus PymSo all these guys contributed to the repairs back then?

They're probably just using "senatores" as shorthand for "senatores consiliarii," and that's probably just a list of all the consiliarii in 1157.  The senate that was established in 1144 had 56 members (4 senators from each of 14 regions), some number of whom were senatores consiliarii, though how many there were isn't explicitly stated in the sources.  The senate was probably still in its original form in 1157.  The ancient Roman Republic used to write "when the consuls were X and Y" on monuments to denote the year and the consuls responsible for the construction, and this is probably the medieval equivalent; as the medieval senate didn't have consuls,* it would logically have referred to its consiliarii instead.

So basically, those are the real life counterparts of your characters, who coincidentally did what you guys did around the same time.  :)

*According to one medieval source Arnold of Brescia proposed that there should be two consuls like in the good old days; this may have been a later fabrication, and if not it was certainly never adopted in actual history, but the central assumption of our game is that it is true and was adopted because of a coup in 1152 at the beginning of our game.

"Sasso, Johannes de Alberico, Roieri Buccacane, Pinzo Filippo, Johannes de Parenzo, Petrus Deutesalvi, Cencio de Ansoino, Rainaldo Romano, and Nicola Mannetto.""

So... Basile, Hugo de Vinti, Arrigus Sissmondi, Fortis Calafatus, Barzalamaus Borsarius, 3 other fellows, then Vittorio Manzinni at the end. :P.
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If anyone opposes sending the letter to the pope, please speak up, if the idea would be voted down, Manzinni isn't going to suggest it since it would be pointless. In the interest of moving the game along, though, since no opposition was expressed to Manzinni's earlier suggestions:

[ic=Letter to the Pope]
We, the Lesser Consularis of the Senate of Rome, would congratulate you on your election and we would request an audience before your eminence in order to ensure the success of relationship and to receive blessings in order to best meet challenges confronting Rome as this Holy City is assaulted from without by forces that oppose order and justice and God's will. We would request the opportunity to speak with you regarding certain issues that should be prudently resolved so as to ensure that Rome presents a united front. We are glad that God saw fit to ensure your safety during the recent misfortunes, even though the safety of others was not so assured, and we look forward to our fruitful discussions. [/ic]

[ic=In the Lesser Council]If we let him come to us first we will be in a better position to extract benefits. I'd rather wait for our consuls to share their thoughts on the matter.[/ic]

Out of character, I agree that's a better idea, M. Pym. Not sure he would come though. Manzinni would gladly support an attempt to have the Pope come to the Council if we think he actually would come.

[ic=Before the Lesser Council]
If we are to claim him as the legitimate Pope we should treat him as such. To do less would be to allow those arrayed against us to claim he is just a puppet of the Roman Senate. Let us go to him humbly as is proper. He is our Pope and therefore demands that much at least.
[/ic]

[ic=In the Lesser Council] Interesting observation Senator Sismondii. It was pertinent to note that, should Fortune escape us, our efforts would be in vain. However, as the days go by and events unfold, I fear we might lose our opportunity to press for some important changes.

Regardinng what favors, exactly, I would like to see this Council push, should it decide to; the second clause of the Neronius treaty should be abolished, then the fourth clause modified to allow us to benefit from the collection of tithes and tolls on travellers and pilgrims. Furthermore, a reconciliation between the Papacy and the Arnoldist movement is due; if we could devise a way to warm their relationship, we'd be for the better, so would everyone involved. The matter of the mint is also important, and I would like to see it put on the table.[/ic]

[ic=Lesser Council]

In general, I agree with those suggestions, Senator de Vinti.

Regarding the second provision, I do not think that a Lord would ever codify a permit for his vassals to make war amongst themselves, so what of this suggestion: "His Holiness shall recognize the Roman Militia as necessary for the defense of the city, but the Senate of Rome shall not levy men from outside the city nor make war against any Papal vassal or subject unless Rome has first been outraged.

The added language could be interpreted as we desire according to our needs.

Regarding the Mint. Perhaps we could negotiate to be permitted to re-cast a certain amount of old Papal coins each year- "Given that coins have worn down in weight and in face due to the passage of time, the Senate is permitted to recast 10 Wealth in Coins each year that have already seen the effacement of the Papal face. For, it is unfavorable that citizens look upon an effaced Papal mien--coins marked with faces of God's Chosen, should be pristine."

As to the situation with the Arnoldists... I wonder how that could be resolved given that Arnold wishes that the Pope cede matters physical and merely concern itself with matters ecclesiastical. I do not think that rabidly fanatical faction would accept anything other than full concession. I would however be interested to hear Arnold or a representative if they would wish to negotiate for a concession to which the Pope would be more amenable.

What of the provisions concerning the Prefect? Do we have thoughts on those?[/ic]

Polycarp. Are there other communes, or somesuch governments in the Papal States that are not bound by a treaty akin to the Treaty of Campus Neronius? Are we an exception?

Quote from: Magnus PymPolycarp. Are there other communes, or somesuch governments in the Papal States that are not bound by a treaty akin to the Treaty of Campus Neronius? Are we an exception?

It's unique.

Most cities of significant size in the Patrimonium have a charter from the Pope that allows them self-government, similar to the charters granted to towns by kings in other lands.  In exchange for this they might have some written agreements with the Pope, though these aren't really "treaties," just clauses in the charter.  For instance, most chartered cities have to pay the tallia militum, a "military tax," which is levied in time of war in lieu of actually sending soldiers to help the Pope raise mercenaries.

Rome is different because it's not just a town in the Papal States, it's actually the seat of the Pope.  It was never chartered and thought to be basically the direct property of the Pope, administered in his name by the Prefect.  Discontent with this arrangement was one of the primary reasons for the establishment of the commune in the first place.  The Treaty of Campus Neronius recognized the Senate and allowed it to have authority over some local affairs of Rome, but attempted to retain the most important parts of direct Papal rule (the Prefect, power over ecclesiastical justice, tithes and tolls, and so on).

So yes, the Treaty is an exception, but Rome itself is an exception in the first place.

[ic=A Letter to Gerardo Calafatus (Repost)]Gerardo,

I much enjoyed your company - as well as that of your brothers - and I am glad that you called at my estate. Having thought upon the matter that we discussed, I will propose that we proceed. Any father must surely despair when his daughter should leave his house, but he should likewise be buoyed up if his daughter has made a match with a man honourable and compassionate. And I think that there is no man in Rome who could be a better husband to my Olithia than you. It is always a father's desire that he should protect his daughter, and that she should have only the best. To see to Olithia's wellbeing, and that of your shared future, I am prepared to offer a dowry of [6 WP] in good silver, which I hope to be a fine and equitable sum for her keeping. If this is agreeable to you, I would be honoured to call you my son.

Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ic=A Letter to Ricardo Basile and Caetana Caetani (Repost)]My Beloved Son and Daughter,

I am yet overjoyed at the coming of young Giovanni unto the world, and I am heartened each day to know of his good health and of the love his parents bear him. I knew the first moment that I saw his face that he should be a great man like his father, and like the uncle in whose honour he was named. He must of course come to Rome when he has grown and see his family estate, and the city that he shall one day call his own. I am a proud grandfather and I wish the best for my grandson. As a birth gift I shall shortly be sending [1 WP] of goods and silver, that his parents might be secure in their holding, and that Giovanni should have each and every advantage.

Your Father,

Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ic=A Letter to Otto von Wittelsbach]Signore,

The Romans have made proof of their devotion to the Empire. We have cast out the false Pope who would divide the Holy Church from the Empire, and at no small cost to ourselves. On behalf of Rome in my office as Consul I shall swear the oath of loyalty to His Imperial Majesty before you, that I shall be faithful and loyal to him, that his enemies shall be my own, and that I shall do all that I might to aid the Imperial Crown. I will speak this before you or put it to signed and sealed paper; as you like it.

Consul Roberto Basile,
In Nomine Senatus Populusque Romanus[/ic]

[ic=A Letter to Gregorio Demetri della Suburra]I shall see to it personally that Antonio's mortal remains are treated with dignity and respect and conveyed to the Demetri estate. He shall await the arrival of your men so that he may be laid to his eternal rest.

Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ic=A Letter to Pope Victor IV]Holiness,

As she has always stood, Rome is now ready to defend your divine office and the Holy Mother Church with all the force that it may bring to bear, be it by words or by arms. But crisis yet assails us, and the specter of famine rears fearsomely before the popolo. The Senate will do what it might, but I fear that this new breach may frustrate our design. If His Holiness would in turn lend our concern his ear, then I shall ask him on behalf of the City that he aid us in our efforts to feed the people. Is there not that the Emperor might do for the Eternal City? Might succor arrive from the north?

Consul Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ic=Before the Senate]Senators!

Trial and tribulation have come to our city, and they yet loom all about us. But we are Romans, and so we persevere. We have driven the Sicilian usurper from the city, and we have bested the machinations of Oddone Frangipani; we shall never submit to his design so long as we might draw breath. Yet the time of our extremity is not ended, and the path must be trod with care lest we slip and fall from deadly height. Rome must act with one purpose and speak with one voice, Senators.

And so I come before the Senate, and with humble soul and patriotic heart I shall put measure before our esteemed body. Name one Consul, Senators. One and one only. Until we are delivered from this time of crises. Let the Senate stand united before our city, before the world and before the church. Let firm hand and guiding purpose lead us forward that we might prevail over the foe.

If the Senate would enact this extraordinary measure, then an extraordinary election must be called. Should this measure carry, then I shall place my candidacy before this Senate. I have proven time and time again my faith to our Eternal City, and so too have I proven my ability. It is my firm belief that this is of the utmost necessity, Senators, lest our city be ground down beneath the heels of our enemies. We must act to preserve our liberty.

Roma Invicta![/ic]

[ic=On the Senate Floor]Consul Basile's proposal, coming so soon on the heels of an election, stuns the senators - is this a power play, a conspiracy to seize control of the commune?  Or do times really call for singular leadership?

Suprisingly, the proposal has not drawn very organized opposition - while many senators are obviously suspicious of a sole consulship, the traditional power blocs are divided.  The Arnoldists, normally opposed to the expansion of consular powers, are also generally quite pro-imperial and tend to agree that this is a moment of crisis.  Basile's staunchly pro-imperial stance of late has also blunted their opposition to such a measure.  The nobles, for their part, have tended to be more permissive towards a greater consular mandate, but many of them seem reluctant to give the kind of full-throated support for "Pope Victor" that the Arnoldists, along with a number of the consiliarii, seem ready to provide.  Were Basile or another one of these pro-Victor councilors to gain sole consular power, many seem to fear it would dash any chance of peace or reconciliation.  The moderate middle-class is, as usual, divided, with some loudly supporting a stronger consulate and others warning of "tyranny."

The influence of the consiliarii on this question is likely to be determinative.[/ic]

[ic=Pope Victor IV to the Lesser Council]So long as we remain in the Eternal City, we would be pleased to receive the senatores consiliarii of Rome before us, to discuss matters of interest to them and the Holy See.

We are aware of the crisis facing the people of Rome, and we will make every effort to assist the Romans in this time, though there are certain considerations that may complicate these efforts.  At present the loyalty of many parties is unclear; even the Emperor, whose servants have faithfully defended the true Pope and denied the usurper in these recent days, cannot yet know of what has transpired here, though we have already dispatched messengers north.

The late Adrian bestowed upon our brothers the care of the city of Terni.  If the Romans can assure the allegiance of their allies, the cities of Spoleto and Rieti, this would secure a very large portion of a route to the north which may be used to move supplies to Rome and, in time, to provide for the advance of allied forces from the north without interference from certain cities whose loyalty is more dubious.  That route, however, also passes through the lands of the Abbey of Farfa.  While the current abbot was appointed by the emperor and is assumed to be faithful to him, Farfa has often behaved obstinately towards Saint Peter's heir in the past, and the abbot may not have the courage to acknowledge our lordship until definitive word is heard from the emperor himself.  This route is also close to Frangipani holdings north of Tivoli.  Our cousin Attilio holds the castle of Palombara in the same region, but regrettably his forces are not a match for those Signore Frangipani still controls.  We fear that if this abominable schism continues long Palombara will soon find itself besieged by our enemies, and it lacks the strength to resist without aid.

Farfa's loyalty is also an issue of great import because of their dominion over Civitaveccia, which is likewise crucial to our efforts.  The import of supplies, the transmission of pilgrims, and - if necessary - the movement of soldiers by sea will be difficult to effect without it.  Even if Farfa's loyalty can be assured, however, again there is the matter of Frangipani forces in the vicinity of Tolfa, and there is also the issue of the Orsini, who hold Palo and Santa Severa on the road to the port.  That family has tended to give its obedience to the Frangipani but is not known as a strong ally, and Giacinto Bobone-Orsini, Cardinal-Deacon of Santa Maria in Cosmedin, has apparently committed neither to our cause nor to that of the usurper.  He too may be waiting on word for the emperor, or simply to see where temporal advantage lies in the months ahead.  In either case that family cannot firmly be relied upon.

A final issue is that of the Tusculani, who are our noble cousins and have always stressed their loyalty to the empire.  While we are aware of the poor relations between these noblemen and the Roman Senate, we believe that every effort must be made to secure the obedience of these princes to our righteous cause.  Our position in Latium will be under constant threat until that obedience can be secured.  Likewise the obedience of the Colonna is most critical, as Signore Colonna too has not yet made his intentions clear.  We urge the Senate to avoid any offense to lords who have not explicitly sworn themselves to the ruinous cause of the usurper, as we would prefer to win them to our just and proper obedience rather than reduce them to that obedience through war.

Victor Quartus episcopus, Servus Servorium Dei[/ic]

[ic=Otto von Wittelsbach to Roberto Basile]Rome has ably served the cause of our emperor in these past few days, and I am certain that he would welcome the allegiance that you so properly offer.  All that is required is that, in your official capacity, you speak the words of the provided oath in my presence.  You may provide whatever witnesses you see proper, as shall I.

Otto von Wittelsbach, Reichsmarschall[/ic]

[spoiler=The full oath, as a reminder]"I swear that from this time forth I shall be faithful to my lord Frederick, the Emperor of the Romans, against all men, as is my lawful duty to my lord and emperor, and I shall aid him to retain the crown of empire and all its prerogatives in Italy, namely and specifically the city of Rome and whatever jurisdiction he is entitled to have in it.  I shall not deprive him of his royal rights here or elsewhere, and if they should be taken from him I shall in good faith aid him to recover and retain them.  I shall be party to no plot or deed to cause him the loss of life or limb or honor or to be held in captivity.  Every command of his, given me personally, or in writing, or through his representative rendering justice, I shall faithfully observe, and I shall by no evil means evade hearing or receiving or complying with it.  All these things I shall observe in good faith without deceit.  So help me God and these four Holy Gospels."[/spoiler]

[ic=Gerardo Calafatus to Roberto Basile]I find that a worthy offer, Consul, and I am pleased to give my agreement.  As soon as I am able, I will make an appointment for us to meet and discuss the fine points of the betrothal agreement and the ceremony.  I shall be elated to welcome your daughter to our family, producing a union which shall surely strengthen both our houses.

Signore Gerardo Calafatus[/ic]

[ic=On the Senate Floor]Does the Esteemed Consul seek to become the German King's vassal? Does he hope to make Rome his fief? Yet again, crisis approaches and our leaders cry out to set aside our noble institutions to serve their short-term goals.  Tell me, Consul, why now must we submit to your whim? What cause do you serve in your singular person that is not best suited for pluralistic debate?

Tell me, Consul, do you dream of being Prince of Rome?[/ic]

Ughhhh. Really sorry PC - I hate to be the person doing this. I'd be really grateful if I could have until Tuesday, because looking back there's a fair few letters that need to be sent as well as orders. If not, I'll have orders in tomorrow morning.

Go for it.  As promised, the next update will also be in a new thread, and I'm still working on putting that together, so the update will not be immediate.

Edit: That goes for everyone - you're welcome to continue Senate arguing, post letters, and anything else IC.  If you've already posted your OOC orders, though, please PM me if you decide to edit them after today.

[ic=A Letter to Otto von Wittelsbach]Then let it so be done. I shall come before you to swear this oath, and I shall bring my witnesses.

Consul Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ic=A Letter to Bishop Dodone]Your Excellency,

Rome has cherished its long friendship with Rieti, just as Rieti has done so in turn. We are aggrieved to see that our friends have come to conflict among themselves, and it is indeed the Senate's desire to see this matter swiftly resolved. Though I cannot pretend to fully comprehend the intricacies of this situation it is my understanding that upon the passing of the honourable Damianus a new Rector was appointed in his stead. This is well and good - there must be continuity, and the city should not be allowed to lapse idly absent leadership.

However, the Consuls of Rieti have indeed appeared before our Senate and - like you - they have entreated us for our intervention. But how are we to choose? All Reatini are counted among our friends, and the Romans are loathe to deliver injury to any counted among that number. I do not hesitate to take strong action when necessary, Excellency, but neither will I hesitate to encourage diplomacy when I think it right. If you will assent - and if the Consuls shall assent - the Roman Senate will send a representative to the city of Rieti to act as a mediator between yourself and these Consuls. He shall come to the city and he shall go throughout the countryside, and with God's Grace the Reatini shall all be made as brothers once more.

Could you not embrace this Council, Excellency? Offer them the legitimacy of your proclamation, but with condition. As Rome has its Consuls and its Senate, let Rieti have its Rector and its Consuls. The Rector shall act when action is required, but the Council shall advise him and he shall be required to respect the rule of its majority. I know you will consider your course wisely, Excellency, for you love God and your people both.

Consul Roberto Basile,
In Nomine Senatus Populusque Romanus[/ic]

[ic=A Letter to the Consuls of Rieti]Consuls,

The Romans are ever joyous that with the simple offer of its friendship and its aid Rieti should emerge with strength from the catastrophe that was visited upon it by the Normans. The Romans shall forever be friends and allies of the Reatini. Of all Reatini. The Senate supports your cause, Consuls, and we would see civic liberty flourish in your city. We do not desire that Bishop Dodone or his man should rule unchecked in Rieti. You have the support of the people, and the will of the people must be respected.

But so too is the Bishop bound up in the laws of his own office, and indeed he must be respected, just as the Romans respect His Holiness. Respect, however, is not utter subservience. Rome would see this matter resolved swiftly, Consuls. But we would see it done with words. The Senate encourages your Council to negotiation with the Bishop, and if this should seem suitable to you we shall send a representative of our Senate that he might mediate between your two parties, and arrive at a conclusion that should see Rieti made all the stronger.

Offer the Bishop that you will accept his man as part of your Council, but with the condition that the united will of the Council should trump that of the Rector. Thereby the people shall rule, but the Bishop shall have granted his assent, and so this conflict shall be ended. Rieti cannot stand tall if the country should stand against the city, and if the city should stand against the country. Come again together as brothers, Consuls, and your strength shall be far greater then were you divided. I have faith in God and in the citizens of Rieti both, and I know that your city shall long stand as exemplar of dignity and liberty both.

Consul Roberto Basile,
In Nomine Senatus Populusque Romanus[/ic]

[ic=A Message to Pandolfo Cassi]You have been punished for your crime, Pandolfo, for crime indeed it was. The Romans cannot flout the law, no matter their intent. You have suffered amidst the enemies of Rome, and I see that it has inspired contrition in your soul. I would see your punishment ended, Pandolfo. Deliver upon this promise you have made and you shall be rewarded for good and faithful service. Return to Rome and call upon me at my house. If things are as you say, you and your family shall receive my Consular Pardon, and your citizenship shall be restored.[/ic]

[ic=A Letter to Hugo de Vinti]Senator,

You have my gratitude for coming to me with this matter - but I have already dispatched my own message to the man Cassi. If he can deliver upon his promise we should not cast him aside. He is a Roman in his heart, though we have taken his citizenship from him. I think, perhaps, he has suffered enough for his crime over these long years. If he can do this service for Rome it shall be a great boon, and I am no man to betray those who would serve Rome with faith. Christ Jesus would have us forgive this man, and though my strength and my compassion pale before that of our Almighty Lord, we must strive to emulate Him in all that we should do.

Consul Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ic=Before the Senate]To be Rome's Prince is not my dream, Barzalomeus. It is my nightmare. I seek only Rome's eternal liberty, Senator - as I have always done. Can any man here accuse me of ill thought or action against our noble Commune? Can any man say that I do not strive each day to see Rome strong and free?

I do not ask the Senate to place this duty upon my shoulders without utmost consideration, and indeed I should welcome the passage of this measure even were the Senate to choose another man, for I trust in the Senate's wisdom. In this proposal I emulate our ancient forebears, who would do the same in times of crisis. This arrangement could only be temporary, and in any decree made by the Senate this must indeed be made explicit, lest any man be tempted towards tyranny. Let us be inspired by the hero Cincinnatus, by his dignity and his humility and his ability.[/ic]