The Campaign Builder's Guild

Okay, so the other day, I was in a local Grocery Store. They had a video game section. I have a Wii U, and I was trying to decide between like three games. Splatoon, LOZ Wind Waker, and another game that I can't remember at the moment. It boiled down to Splatoon and Wind Waker, and I was sitting there for like fifteen minutes trying to decide between the two. I ultimately picked Splatoon. They had the best price on a new copy I've seen anywhere, so I bought it. Great game for the record, but what does that have to do with anything?

I've been stuck on a campaign setting Idea for years. I love the 1632 series by Eric Flint. I make no qualms about that. And I made a setting where an American city gets thrown into Eberron. Now the first campaign I ran had flaws. Many flaws now that I look back on it.

Now I've been stuck between two basic ideas. Do I rebuild my original idea.. or do I make a whole new world entirely for this idea?

Both sides have their appeals and weaknesses.

Eberron:
Pros:
Established world with lots of interesting history
Is meant to be a pulpy love letter to old serials like Flash Gordon, so it makes sense for the idea better than most settings.
Cool enemies like the Dreaming Dark, and other organizations
I really love Eberron. I can't lie.

Cons:
No room for flexibility.
Magitech is already a "thing" so technology introduced into this world might influence things, but ti's not going to flip the world on it's head.
Things seem really over whelming....

Homebrew World

Pros:
Complete control over setting.
I could easily make technology influence everything else around it.

Cons:
I have no original ideas for fantasy,

So the thing I really find appealing about the homebrew idea is that the world essentially becomes Eberron. The magic in that world is forced to be harnessed for technological purposes for the sake of competition between this new nation.

So yeah I'm stuck. What would you guys want to play in? What are the problems with each idea, both logically and theme wise?

Who is the current or projected audience? For example, is this something that is primarily for self-enjoyment or do you already have a gaming group that is likely to play in the to-be-developed setting?       

Personally, I'd advocate a homebrew setting, because I like the idea of Eberron and the way it took some of the ramifications of D&D-style magic to its next step, but I'm not really a big fan of the execution of the actual Eberron setting. I feel like a homebrew setting built around many of the same principles could avoid a lot of Eberron's problems, if only because you'd be writing exactly what setting you (and your group) wanted to play, rather than the significant commercial pressures involved in creating Eberron. As you may know, Eberron was the winner of a contest that basically said "cram as much D&D as you possibly can into this setting" so that's what it did, and it shows-- all of the D&D races have to be crammed in there, and D&D magic has to function as written in the book, and all of the core classes have to work as well as adding some new classes so players will buy splatbooks, and whatever.

I absolutely think a homebrew is better. There's nothing wrong with just running an Eberron game or using published settings generally (despite having made settings of my own I've run Planescape and Ravenloft, and I'm also about to run a Star Trek one-shot... there's no shame in using pre-built settings), but I don't actually think a 1632 style take on Eberron would work that well, for many of the reasons you mentioned. Eberron is already a sort of "modern" setting but with magic in place of technology, so the contrast between a modern way of thinking and a fantastic/antiquated way of thinking doesn't really work. There's not enough dissonance between the worlds to foment really interesting conflicts

I do like the idea of an entire town rather than a single protagonist going "down the rabbit hole" into a fantasy world, like basically getting plane-shifted.

Quote from: Rose-of-Vellum
Who is the current or projected audience? For example, is this something that is primarily for self-enjoyment or do you already have a gaming group that is likely to play in the to-be-developed setting?        

This has been for my own enjoyment. I don't have a group right now, but it would be nice to have a couple of settings ready for the off chance that I find another group to play with. Panorah is my Small Talking Animal Fantasy (Ala Redwall, Secret of NIMH, etc, etc) World that's a fusion of Redwall and GoT. Still lot's of dumb evil hordes running around, but there are royal houses that may or may not be involved and pulling strings in the background? HHHMMM?? Not perfect, but it feels just about complete. Enough to give players a good game atleast.

Quote from: sparkletwist
Personally, I'd advocate a homebrew setting, because I like the idea of Eberron and the way it took some of the ramifications of D&D-style magic to its next step, but I'm not really a big fan of the execution of the actual Eberron setting. I feel like a homebrew setting built around many of the same principles could avoid a lot of Eberron's problems, if only because you'd be writing exactly what setting you (and your group) wanted to play, rather than the significant commercial pressures involved in creating Eberron. As you may know, Eberron was the winner of a contest that basically said "cram as much D&D as you possibly can into this setting" so that's what it did, and it shows-- all of the D&D races have to be crammed in there, and D&D magic has to function as written in the book, and all of the core classes have to work as well as adding some new classes so players will buy splatbooks, and whatever.

Well ultimately I agree with you that making a Homebrew setting is the right way to go, and speaking as a devoted Eberronite, you're right in that WotC tries way to hard to give every single little monster a place in Eberron. However I don't think it's very fair to say that it has to be that way. Keith Baker himself has admitted that he himself doesn't agree with everything that's in the Eberron books (Especially about Thrane), and has said that he has omitted plenty of stuff and changed things when he runs his own games. There are people who use Pathfinder to play Eberron, and they just throw out Artificers all together and let you play as Alchemists instead. I agree that Eberron could use some more alternate rules for it's tone and setting, a better crafting alternative to the one presented in 3.5 for instance. In most settings it works, but lets say you make enough money to buy a small factory in Sharn (the big hub city in Eberron), and you decide to put it to work. Why can't you use those resources to make a slew of items while your off adventuring?

[spoiler][ic]
http://keith-baker.com/category/gaming/eberron-faq/page/3/


The "facts" about Eberron are "just what is believed." How far from those "facts" has the truth gotten in your games? And what drove that departure?

I always tell people not to be bound by canon, and to use the books as inspiration rather than limitation. So, how does MY version of Eberron vary from canon? It would take a lot of time to compile an exhaustive list, but here's a few things.

   In 4E, I limit many key magical rituals to characters with Dragonmarks; this helps explain why the dragonmarked houses have the economic power that they do, because they are the only source of these critical magics.
   Related to this, I've always put a lot of restrictions on resurrection magic. Casual resurrection simply doesn't work for most people, and resurrection spells are often dangerous—you might just bring in random hostile ghosts, or get the wrong spirit in the body, etc. I want resurrection to be one of the rare and impressive magics that people are still amazed by, not a reliable service you can purchase from Jorasco. Reliable resurrection is something that would have a tremendous impact on a society, and I don't feel that Eberron has that taken into account.
   I've always emphasized the idea that dragonshards are an integral part of any sort of industrial magic, from the creation of magic items to common spells. In 4E this is easily accomplished by saying that residuum is processed dragonshards. The point is to emphasize the importance of dragonshards to modern civilization, which helps people understand the power of House Tharashk and the importance of dragonshard-rich regions such as Q'barra and Xen'drik.
   I hold to the 3E canon idea that Dragonmarks are bound by bloodline. I might allow a PC to have a dragonmark that doesn't belong, but if I did it would be a historic, campaign-defining event.
   I never added Baator to the cosmology, as was done in 4th Edition. I like the existing balance of the cosmology and didn't see a need to change it. With that said, I like the version of Baator I developed for DDI, in which it is a demiplane (so it doesn't contradict the original material) and in which Asmodeus' rise to power only occurred around the Mourning—playing up the idea that the Mourning had reverberations across the planes. This also presents the devils of Baator as an entirely new force in the world. Rather than saying that they've always been around and figuring out how they have interacted with the Lords of Dust, Quori, etc, this presents them as an entirely new planar faction that is a concern and potential threat to all the long-term power players.
   I have a very different vision of Thrane than that presented in The Forge of War, but I've spoken about this at some length elsewhere.
   Likewise, I have a very different vision of the Blood of Vol: the tone and practices of the faith, its history in Karrnath, etc. Again, I've written about this at length elsewhere. Looking to the "Why," the point to me is that a successful religion offers some form of comfort to its followers. It is a way to make sense of the universe. The Blood of Vol is a very GRIM religion, but it is nonetheless a faith that seeks to answer questions (first and foremost, what benevolent god would allow death and suffering to exist?) and build strong communities; it is a faith that ultimately seeks to destroy death and create a paradise on Eberron.
   I've done more with sahuagin civilization than has been covered in canon; this is hinted at in The Shattered Land, and comes out a little in the Xen'drik sourcebooks.
   I don't use subraces, and don't feel obliged to find a place for every new monster or race that comes along. I COULD if I wanted, but I generally see no reason to do so. I feel that intelligent races should have a history and sense of place in the world, so I don't want to add new ones in without good reason.

I could probably go on for pages. As you can see, most of these aren't huge changes; they're just little things. But the short form is I do what makes sense to me for the stories I want to run.

[/ic][/spoiler]

Quote from: Steerpike
I absolutely think a homebrew is better. There's nothing wrong with just running an Eberron game or using published settings generally (despite having made settings of my own I've run Planescape and Ravenloft, and I'm also about to run a Star Trek one-shot... there's no shame in using pre-built settings), but I don't actually think a 1632 style take on Eberron would work that well, for many of the reasons you mentioned. Eberron is already a sort of "modern" setting but with magic in place of technology, so the contrast between a modern way of thinking and a fantastic/antiquated way of thinking doesn't really work. There's not enough dissonance between the worlds to foment really interesting conflicts

I do like the idea of an entire town rather than a single protagonist going "down the rabbit hole" into a fantasy world, like basically getting plane-shifted.

Yeah, I agree with you. The thing that drew me to Eberron in the first place was the "Modern Magic" themes. An army of mass produced golems? Awesome! Magical telegraph system using whispering wind? Brilliant. Why hasn't any other magical setting thought of that (DND settings)? Airships and trains that run on Air elementals? Why didn't I think of that? I love trains!

But yeah, you're right that Eberron is a bit too "progressed" for this idea to be really interesting.

Personal Ideas that I brainstormed (This has still been influenced by Eberron for the record).

Dracocentric world:[spoiler] The world that I am creating used to be ruled by Dragons, They had a vast global Species-centric empire, but it fell apart in a cataclysmic magical destruction that nobody quite knows how it happened. But it essentially gave way for lesser races to take control of parts of the world that they inhabit. There's still pockets of the Draconic Empire that exist mind you, but they don't have nearly the influence they had or would just love to have again.

However the influence of this grand Empire can be felt all across the world. Several races were born from Draconic tampering. Meanwhile entire monoliths of Draconic ingenuity still linger around all of the parts of the globe.
[/spoiler]

Empires falling and rising: The world is in a state of imperial warfare. Several powers that be are clammering to take over the world.

Races: I need to think about this.

Then the 'Muricans show up.

Yep somewhere in the world a planer shift occurs and an American city in thrown into this strange world. What are the consequences?

A new republic is born: Essentially a small state that relies heavily on trade and innovation. The nation doesn't have the manpower or resources to become a new "United States of Kharlonia" (working title), so for right now it's content just staying the "Republic of New America" (I like this name personally, but I'm sure you could come up with something cooler).

What are they good at?: Technology, manufacturing, and economy. For right now, the RNA is actually doing pretty well for itself. The economy is doing will enough, and manufacturing is plentiful.

What is there weakness?: Numbers. The RNA is actually pretty small considering population. Personal weaponry has given the RNA an edge (regardless of how you feel about 2nd Amendment issues, it makes sense in this world for their to be a gun culture because this is a new frontier, and with big scary monsters). And another weakness? The RNA has been forced to revert back to a steampowered lifestyle for the time being. The factories weren't going to be able to maintain the same level of technological output as in this world. However there are still a number of stubborn young people who treat their modern technology like precious treasure, and still try to maintain the "modern lifestyle".

What is there secret? They have more military machinery than they let on. They probably even a have a high grade air fighter somewhere.... And there currently working on a battleship for their admittedly small but formidable navy.

So what are the over arching consequences?

Magical Industrial Revolution: Now everyone want's fancy machines like the Americans. Do they try to copy the new technology... Or take the magic they already have and turn it into technology. It all begins when a nobleman wants a flying ship like the Zepellin he sees flying nearing his kingdom. A wizard comes forward and says he can make a flying ship through enchantment. He does so. Boom! Magitech is born.

Another idea is that a noble or wizards gets his hands on Scifi literature (ironic, I know), and reads about robots. Convinces the military a Golem army is a good idea. Warforged!

Religous Wars: So lets say you live in a world with literal gods that interact wtih mortals. There are evil gods, and worshipping them leads to dire life ruining consequences. How does Freedom of Conscience  apply to this world, where worshipping an evil god could literally unleash mass destruction?

So yeah, sloppy brain storming session ends.

Quote from: Love of AwesomeHowever I don't think it's very fair to say that it has to be that way. Keith Baker himself has admitted that he himself doesn't agree with everything that's in the Eberron books (Especially about Thrane), and has said that he has omitted plenty of stuff and changed things when he runs his own games. There are people who use Pathfinder to play Eberron, and they just throw out Artificers all together and let you play as Alchemists instead.

It doesn't have to be that way, but that's the way (the published version of) Eberron is. If you're going to "use Eberron," then that's the version you have-- and if you want something different, you're going to be homebrewing, which means you are going to have to do work on it. Depending on how different from official Eberron your own version is, you might have to do a lot of homebrewing, and, thus, you're doing quite a lot of work... and at that point giving Eberron credit for being anything more than an inspiration is really just applying the "Oberoni fallacy" to setting design.

Quote from: sparkletwist

Quote from: Love of AwesomeHowever I don't think it's very fair to say that it has to be that way. Keith Baker himself has admitted that he himself doesn't agree with everything that's in the Eberron books (Especially about Thrane), and has said that he has omitted plenty of stuff and changed things when he runs his own games. There are people who use Pathfinder to play Eberron, and they just throw out Artificers all together and let you play as Alchemists instead.

It doesn't have to be that way, but that's the way (the published version of) Eberron is. If you're going to "use Eberron," then that's the version you have-- and if you want something different, you're going to be homebrewing, which means you are going to have to do work on it. Depending on how different from official Eberron your own version is, you might have to do a lot of homebrewing, and, thus, you're doing quite a lot of work... and at that point giving Eberron credit for being anything more than an inspiration is really just applying the "Oberoni fallacy" to setting design.

Yeah, you're right. I think they should have taken a more Dark Sun approach to Eberron. Everything in that world was hand tailored to make the brutal, hellhole themes come through. In Eberron they should have changed the races to make them fit with the themes of that world better. Sorry for playing devils advocate. Fanboyism dies hard.