The Frontier

Steerpike · January 30, 2016, 06:49:10 PM

Weird oil. Perfect fit. I bet there are some messed up abattoirs out there.

Given this development I imagine a lot of people follow the Weird around like stormchasers, in hopes of hunting down the things it spawns.

sparkletwist · February 02, 2016, 06:04:24 PM

Dragon Canyon
Dragon Canyon is a rather new town, some distance north of Neosolaria, established around a large black rock mine. It is believed that the canyon itself was carved out by the Weird some centuries ago, resulting in an influx of weird creatures on a truly grand scale. Most of them lived and died in the canyon, leading directly to the profitable mine that now operates here. It is owned by the Eagle Conglomerate, a large and successful corporation with ties to the Solarian royal family; it is generally very good to its shareholders and cares little about safety conditions for its workers. The pay is, on the other hand, seemingly quite generous, although given the level of danger involved, it's likely nobody would sign up at all were any less being offered. Even as it is, it takes a certain amount of desperation to work in the mine... but perhaps not quite as much as it takes to go chase the Weird.

Xathan · February 02, 2016, 09:44:25 PM

Really digging this setting - I love the western and martial arts combo.

Questions, since that's what I always do with feedback:

The Solarian Kingdom:

I love the idea of this hyper steamtech world that people are fleeing to the frontier. How bad is it to be a commoner in the Solarian Kingdom? From the description it sounds like it could be anywhere from a benevolent dictatorship to a full on Orwellian dystopia. Also, I'm curious about the atomatons and computers - what are the former like? Are they machines of war or do they have other purposes? Do they ever venture out or are taken out to the frontier? Do they have free will? And the latter - how advanced are these computers? Are we talking giant building-sized processors with simple displays or full-on AI or something in between?

The Weird

I love this. What do the beasts look like? What happens if you're in the area where the Weird hits while it's there - do you get sucked into whatever is on the other side, or just torn apart by the creatures that spill out?

Zhatlan

I'm really curious about these guys. Getting a kind of Mesoamerica vibe from them with the name. Do any of the Zhatlani live in the Frontier? Have any Frontier settlers near their area established any kind of peaceful trade, or is it pretty much purely hostile? Is the Kingdom slowly chipping away at their borders, or has expansion into their territories largely halted?

Black Ichor

I love fantasy-oil. What's the success rate like on hunting down Weird creatures? How much is a single kill worth? Is the stuff you get from killing them "better" in some way than even the refined stuff that gets dug up?

Magic

I like that magic is dangerous and unpredictable - what are the dangers of it? What can go wrong with it?

sparkletwist · February 03, 2016, 03:57:17 PM

Hey, I'm glad you're back around. :D
Good questions.

Life as a commoner is pretty bad in the Solarian Kingdom, especially in the cities. "Orwellian" is probably the wrong imagery, because what makes society so bad is more neglect and inequality than excessive state control-- the upper classes simply don't care very much about the poor, and due to the state having nobility and whatnot, it's all pretty entrenched. It's essentially most of the social ills of 19th century America, without the democratic political institutions that made some degree of reform possible.

Automatons are mostly lumbering robots designed for simple tasks, like industrial work, while mechanical computers are giant number crunchers with teletypes and round green screens. There is no AI or anything like that, and there are no "war automatons" as such, but power armor is more or less a piloted automaton. It's very much an industrial feel, and much more of an expansion on actual realistic late 19th century technology than anything truly groundbreaking.

There is no getting "sucked into" the Weird. It doesn't seem to have an other side as such, it just carves holes in anything it touches and weird creatures crawl out of the holes it makes. They weren't there before, so they clearly came from the Weird somehow, but nobody really understands the mechanism-- including me, to be honest.

Zhatlan is definitely designed to give off a Mesoamerican vibe. If the Frontier is "the west," then Zhatlan is the Mexico analogy; I just kept their pre-Columbian culture more intact and merged in some Chinese elements to give it a different flavor. Right now, relations between the Frontier settlements and Zhatlan are uneasy, but not outright hostile. Trade definitely does happen. The Frontier is slowly melting into Zhatlani territory, but Zhatlan is currently too strong for the Solarians to ever win an open war with the limited resources they're able to bring west by airship.

The success rate on hunting down Weird creatures is probably a lot of hunts that result in nothing because the Weird changes direction at the last second, and the occasional big score that makes up for it. Of course, the odds of any individual hunter surviving drop in proportion to how "successful" they are, given how dangerous the job is. The main advantage to killing them is the stuff you get is 100% pure black ichor. From the mines, you have to dig up lots and lots of black rock and refine it to get a decent amount of ichor out, sort of like diamond mining. As such, when you sell it, you can fetch the same money as the industrial outfits get for selling their refined finished product. I'm not totally sure about the exact numbers, but some hunters have gotten rich enough they can retire in luxury, while others scrape by with a few small kills here and there.

The main danger to magic is that it is unpredictable, so it's hard to make a list of what can go wrong. It's essentially unleashing unformed chaos into the world in an attempt to do things, but things almost never work as intended.

Xathan · February 06, 2016, 02:59:15 PM

Quote from: sparkletwist
Hey, I'm glad you're back around. :D
Good questions.

Thanks!

QuoteLife as a commoner is pretty bad in the Solarian Kingdom, especially in the cities. "Orwellian" is probably the wrong imagery, because what makes society so bad is more neglect and inequality than excessive state control-- the upper classes simply don't care very much about the poor, and due to the state having nobility and whatnot, it's all pretty entrenched. It's essentially most of the social ills of 19th century America, without the democratic political institutions that made some degree of reform possible.

Gotcha. Is there actual unrest from the poor or do they just leave for the Frontier if they have a problem with it? Are there any nobles who care about the poor, or is it pretty much universal that they don't care?

QuoteAutomatons are mostly lumbering robots designed for simple tasks, like industrial work, while mechanical computers are giant number crunchers with teletypes and round green screens. There is no AI or anything like that, and there are no "war automatons" as such, but power armor is more or less a piloted automaton. It's very much an industrial feel, and much more of an expansion on actual realistic late 19th century technology than anything truly groundbreaking.

Cool! How extensive is the power armor in terms of capabilities? On the scale of "Real world Exo Suit theories" to "Iron Man Suit" Where does it fall? How commonly is it used? Would it ever really be used out on the Frontier, or is it mostly used against...actually, that's another questions. With the Marshland principalities being mostly poor and much weaker than the kingdom, and with Zhatlan being too far away to really war with, does the The Solarian Kingdom have any real enemies?

QuoteThere is no getting "sucked into" the Weird. It doesn't seem to have an other side as such, it just carves holes in anything it touches and weird creatures crawl out of the holes it makes. They weren't there before, so they clearly came from the Weird somehow, but nobody really understands the mechanism-- including me, to be honest.

Hah, nothing wrong with that! Do the holes persist after the Weird has moved on?

QuoteZhatlan is definitely designed to give off a Mesoamerican vibe. If the Frontier is "the west," then Zhatlan is the Mexico analogy; I just kept their pre-Columbian culture more intact and merged in some Chinese elements to give it a different flavor. Right now, relations between the Frontier settlements and Zhatlan are uneasy, but not outright hostile. Trade definitely does happen. The Frontier is slowly melting into Zhatlani territory, but Zhatlan is currently too strong for the Solarians to ever win an open war with the limited resources they're able to bring west by airship.

Cool! I like the Mesoamerican + chinese feel - it's not a combination I've ever seen before. Just to better understand - if the Solarians and the Zhatlani didn't have the Frontier between them, would the Solarians just steamroll them, or would the Zhatlani have a chance of winning?

QuoteThe success rate on hunting down Weird creatures is probably a lot of hunts that result in nothing because the Weird changes direction at the last second, and the occasional big score that makes up for it. Of course, the odds of any individual hunter surviving drop in proportion to how "successful" they are, given how dangerous the job is. The main advantage to killing them is the stuff you get is 100% pure black ichor. From the mines, you have to dig up lots and lots of black rock and refine it to get a decent amount of ichor out, sort of like diamond mining. As such, when you sell it, you can fetch the same money as the industrial outfits get for selling their refined finished product. I'm not totally sure about the exact numbers, but some hunters have gotten rich enough they can retire in luxury, while others scrape by with a few small kills here and there.

Makes sense to me. I love the Weird - so would players being Wierd hunters be a viable option, or would that be something that, because it's so random, you really wouldn't be able to base an entire campagin around? Also, how many Weird monsters are there running around outside of the spots where they were created? Do they survive long after? Can they breed? Are any of them intelligent?

QuoteThe main danger to magic is that it is unpredictable, so it's hard to make a list of what can go wrong. It's essentially unleashing unformed chaos into the world in an attempt to do things, but things almost never work as intended.

Makes sense. So if things almost never work as intended, is there any reason to use magic at all? Like...lets say you cast a fireball at someone, to go with a classic example. You know in advance you're probably not actually going to get a fireball, but do you have a reasonable chance of actually making whatever comes out hit the person you're aiming at? Can you semi-reliably not blow yourself up? Or is it pretty much random the majority of the time, and ever so often if you survive long enough you might actually get something useful to happen? And if it's the last option, why would anyone bother even trying?

Seraph · February 09, 2016, 03:18:16 PM

I haven't had time to read this in depth, but what I've seen of this so far I quite like.

sparkletwist · February 15, 2016, 05:01:13 PM

Sorry for being a bit slow getting back to this. :)

Quote from: XathanGotcha. Is there actual unrest from the poor or do they just leave for the Frontier if they have a problem with it? Are there any nobles who care about the poor, or is it pretty much universal that they don't care?

I think there is quite a bit of unrest, but also a lot of emigration. It's a big step, and a lot of people would rather not have to take it-- it's not as though life on the Frontier is anything resembling idyllic-- so I think there is a push for improving the lives of commoners back east, too. It's pretty much universal that noble don't really care, although there are plenty that make a show of seeming to show some care here and there, mostly to make themselves feel better, win political points, or the like.

Quote from: XathanHow extensive is the power armor in terms of capabilities? On the scale of "Real world Exo Suit theories" to "Iron Man Suit" Where does it fall? How commonly is it used? Would it ever really be used out on the Frontier, or is it mostly used against...actually, that's another questions. With the Marshland principalities being mostly poor and much weaker than the kingdom, and with Zhatlan being too far away to really war with, does the The Solarian Kingdom have any real enemies?

Much closer to "real world exo suit theories," although it's of course a bit more fantastic because it's all based on steampunk technology. It's huge and bulky, and somewhat unwieldy, so there definitely won't be any Samus Aran super-athletics going on. It's more of this setting's version of a tank, and has a similar usage pattern. It's used quite commonly in open warfare, when the Samurai are called up, but not so much in routine policing actions, when it is probably overkill.

I think the Solarian Kingdom has some enemies, probably off on some other continent, but it's more the standard jockeying among great powers and not really anyone who poses an existential threat to it. I haven't thought much about it, and I probably won't, because I feel like it kind of dilutes the spirit of the Frontier if there is too much emphasis on geopolitical concerns back east. That said, I do like the idea that it's possible to sail to the west coast of the Frontier from the west, and some overseas rival of the Solarians has gunboats starting to show up.

Quote from: XathanDo the holes persist after the Weird has moved on?

Yes, the landscape is scarred with the remnants of encounters with the Weird.

Quote from: XathanJust to better understand - if the Solarians and the Zhatlani didn't have the Frontier between them, would the Solarians just steamroll them, or would the Zhatlani have a chance of winning?

I think it depends on what you mean by "winning." The Zhatlani have no real counter to Solarian power armor and airships, but they are tenacious and have a decent amount of skill at making use of salvaged Solarian technology. If they could get into open warfare, there is no chance that Zhatlan could ever conquer the Solarian kingdom, but there is a distinct possibility they could make ultimate victory so bloody and costly that the Solarians would lose the will to fight.

Quote from: XathanI love the Weird - so would players being Wierd hunters be a viable option, or would that be something that, because it's so random, you really wouldn't be able to base an entire campagin around? Also, how many Weird monsters are there running around outside of the spots where they were created? Do they survive long after? Can they breed? Are any of them intelligent?

Yes, players being Weird hunters would definitely be a thing! It's somewhat random, but the trials and tribulations of a dry spell could make an interesting session too, for those who are interested in a more gritty game where mundane concerns can't always be handwaved away. I think weird creatures don't spread or breed widely, although I'm not 100% sure why at this point: it may be because the environment of this planet is hostile to them, which could also mean that they're so aggressive simply because they're in a completely alien environment and can't deal with it. People in-universe probably aren't sure of what's going on, either, so I'll probably leave it an open question for now. Doing more research on them could be an interesting plot arc, too.

Quote from: XathanSo if things almost never work as intended, is there any reason to use magic at all? Like...lets say you cast a fireball at someone, to go with a classic example. You know in advance you're probably not actually going to get a fireball, but do you have a reasonable chance of actually making whatever comes out hit the person you're aiming at? Can you semi-reliably not blow yourself up? Or is it pretty much random the majority of the time, and ever so often if you survive long enough you might actually get something useful to happen? And if it's the last option, why would anyone bother even trying?

We talked about this on IRC quite a bit, but for the sake of completeness and to summarize my thoughts I'll answer here too. Magic has a high degree of unpredictability, but it can be controlled (at least most of the time) by those who are have a knack for it, or who train quite extensively. Of course, it's "easy power," and that can be tempting, so those who would dabble in probably don't have the patience to use it responsibly. I think of most magic as being weird ritualistic stuff done by the bad guys, or perhaps some counter-ritual discovered or developed by the players, rather than flinging fireballs, anyway. Lower-powered curses are very subtle and might seem to just be extremely bad luck.

Quote from: SeraphI haven't had time to read this in depth, but what I've seen of this so far I quite like.

Thanks :)

sparkletwist · February 15, 2016, 05:03:29 PM

Slaughterhouses
The Frontier is full of open spaces, teeming with herds of buffalo as far as the eye can see. Ranchers saw this combination and immediately went to work, setting up vast areas for grazing, establishing trails for cattle drives, and, of course, constructing slaughterhouses that would be the final destination for the beasts. The slaughterhouses were a grim enough spectacle, made all the more so by the crude quality of them. They were built from local materials, and most of their tools were locally produced, as everything had to go by air. Their products went by air, too, and it wasn't long before airships full of steaks, roasts, ribs, and other choice bits of meat started flying back east, their products gracing the plates of the Solarian Kingdom. Or, rather, the elites of the Solarian Kingdom-- due to the expense of flying the meat in by airship, this was a delight generally out of the reach of the common masses. Of course, if they moved to the Frontier, the airship trip wasn't an issue; if a desire for owning one's own land is the main reason for moving west, wanting to sink one's teeth into something besides rice and tofu is probably the second.

War of Succession
The War of Succession was a bloody war that bitterly divided the Solarian Kingdom, and the ten years that it has been since then is not nearly enough time for all of the scars, both physical and psychological, to heal. It had its roots with the accession of the previous Solarian king, whose very reign was a compromise between the rival House of Ruby and House of Sapphire. When the king was assassinated-- Sapphire claimed it was at the behest of the House of Ruby, while Ruby held it was a lone malcontent-- each House put forth its own contender to the throne, and it led to five years of open warfare that also drew in the Triple Commonwealth, and, to a lesser extent, the Marshlands. Eventually, the House of Ruby was destroyed, its remnants either absorbed into the House of Sapphire or cast out of the country, but many bitter Ruby loyalists remain, especially in the Frontier, and "Ruby shall rise again!" would prompt a cheer in many a saloon... or get one shot in others.

Xathan · February 22, 2016, 12:17:54 PM

Quote from: sparkletwist
War of Succession
The War of Succession was a bloody war that bitterly divided the Solarian Kingdom, and the ten years that it has been since then is not nearly enough time for all of the scars, both physical and psychological, to heal. It had its roots with the accession of the previous Solarian king, whose very reign was a compromise between the rival House of Ruby and House of Sapphire. When the king was assassinated-- Sapphire claimed it was at the behest of the House of Ruby, while Ruby held it was a lone malcontent-- each House put forth its own contender to the throne, and it led to five years of open warfare that also drew in the Triple Commonwealth, and, to a lesser extent, the Marshlands. Eventually, the House of Ruby was destroyed, its remnants either absorbed into the House of Sapphire or cast out of the country, but many bitter Ruby loyalists remain, especially in the Frontier, and "Ruby shall rise again!" would prompt a cheer in many a saloon... or get one shot in others.

Somehow I totally missed this part of the update to Frontier!

So how strong is Ruby Loyalism in the Frontier? does it depend on where you are? Or, better question, if you were to pick a random saloon from anywhere in the Fontier and walked in and shouted "Ruby shall rise again!" are you more likely to get a cheer or start a fight? And is there any chance of Ruby rising again, or is it far too destroyed by the House of Sapphire to ever really pose a credible threat? (I'm imaging a lost heir to Ruby - or possibly a "lost heir" - out in the Frontier, slowly trying to build an army - is that about the biggest threat that would exist?)

sparkletwist · February 22, 2016, 03:15:42 PM

Ruby loyalism tends to vary from town to town, and you can usually judge the character of the town and know what kind of response you're going to get from the saloon. It also depends on which veterans from which side are drinking there that day. There is really basically no threat of the House of Ruby ever rising again-- the Sapphirists were pretty thorough, and the population back east is quite war-weary. However, the hook of a "lost heir" out in the Frontier causing havoc is a good one, and definitely something I planned on making use of. As background information, you might have figured this out already, but the House of Ruby and War of Succession is basically a way to get the "disgruntled former Confederate" into the Frontier; it is such a common and versatile western trope that I felt it needed an analog.

Rose-of-Vellum · February 23, 2016, 07:03:42 AM

Quote"Ruby shall rise again!" would prompt a cheer in many a saloon... or get one shot in others.

Love the line, and the added dynamic of the war and aftermath. Although the Ruby vs Sapphire names just makes me think of Pokemon (but I've got three Pokemon-crazed kids, so, eh). Was that an intentional shout-out?

sparkletwist · February 24, 2016, 07:49:29 PM

No, I just wanted factions that had a clear contrasting associations, sounded like they could be royal houses at the same time, and were terms the average player would remember. I've deliberately tried to avoid introducing a bunch of Asian and pseudo-Asian words because most players would trip all over those, probably.

Rose-of-Vellum · February 24, 2016, 07:54:15 PM

If you wish to avoid the Pokemon reference, you could just change either name to a different, but equally common and accessible gemstone (e.g., Emerald, Opal, Topaz, Jasper, Jade, Onyx, etc.)

sparkletwist · February 29, 2016, 03:43:05 PM

I don't really think the Pokemon reference is strong enough to be worth changing anything, personally.

New stuff!

Absolutism
Absolutism is a philosophical movement that has taken root among intellectuals at some universities back east, positing that natural law is the "absolute," the one true explanation for everything. It posits that even the Holy Light, black magic, the Weird, and other phenomena are ultimately governed by the same natural law that is already understood to govern more mundane processes. This is a somewhat radical world view, and is especially offensive to followers of the Orthodox Holy Light sect. As such, they have pushed back, causing many Absolutists to be discredited and disgraced; devoid of any prospects back east, they had no choice but to try their luck in the Frontier. However, this means that this new philosophy is gaining adherents out west, as well.

Numinous · March 02, 2016, 12:46:29 PM

Quote from: sparkletwistAbsolutism
Absolutism is a philosophical movement that has taken root among intellectuals at some universities back east, positing that natural law is the "absolute," the one true explanation for everything. It posits that even the Holy Light, black magic, the Weird, and other phenomena are ultimately governed by the same natural law that is already understood to govern more mundane processes. This is a somewhat radical world view, and is especially offensive to followers of the Orthodox Holy Light sect. As such, they have pushed back, causing many Absolutists to be discredited and disgraced; devoid of any prospects back east, they had no choice but to try their luck in the Frontier. However, this means that this new philosophy is gaining adherents out west, as well.

Reminds me of Positivism.

Quote from: WikipediaPositivism is a philosophical theory stating that positive knowledge is based on natural phenomena and their properties and relations. Thus, information derived from sensory experience, interpreted through reason and logic, forms the exclusive source of all authoritative knowledge. Positivism holds that valid knowledge (certitude or truth) is found only in this derived knowledge.

Which if I recall my history right led to an actual severe decline in philosophical work done in favor of abdicating creative agency in favor of ceding to science and empiricism. I like how your Absolutism does not attempt to deny the nature of magic or faith, but instead makes it subservient? Very neat.

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