The Campaign Builder's Guild

Hey everyone. The move from LA to Seattle has proved to be a good one for me, but it's also come with a lot of work. I'm rarely seen here anyway, but it's been worse as of late. I think I missed a Xathan sighting too.

I have a few projects I'm working on, especially with the release of the 5E SRD and the DM's Guild. Maybe I'll get some product out soon. I do have a contract break coming up.

One thing I have been thinking of are little things in my setting, Endless Horizons (formerly Three Worlds). My current thought is on having my elves be a bit different than the norm.

I'm thinking about having player elves join the ranks of the small races. The idea is this: typical player elves are elven children. When they're older, they become epic powers that are among the gods of the world. Many don't make it that far. This helps to cover why a race that lives so long would only be as powerful as humans, and how a race that isn't an "adult" until 100 years could possibly not have more knowledge than people.

But how would their society be? Little bands of elven children running around together for mutual protection, retreating to the courts of their parents when they run into trouble?

What does this make you envision?

Quote from: Xeviat

One thing I have been thinking of are little things in my setting, Endless Horizons (formerly Three Worlds). My current thought is on having my elves be a bit different than the norm.

I'm thinking about having player elves join the ranks of the small races. The idea is this: typical player elves are elven children. When they're older, they become epic powers that are among the gods of the world. Many don't make it that far. This helps to cover why a race that lives so long would only be as powerful as humans, and how a race that isn't an "adult" until 100 years could possibly not have more knowledge than people.

But how would their society be? Little bands of elven children running around together for mutual protection, retreating to the courts of their parents when they run into trouble?

What does this make you envision?

Dude, I've had the same thought. Honestly I think that this doesn't work in DnD terms, because in terms of real-life folklore, gnomes and european elves are the same basic thing. I always thought we got our elves from Tolkien who in turn got his elves from Nordic mythology. So you'd probably have to make some serious distinctions between gnomes and the smaller more fey like versions of elves.

Quote from: Love of AwesomeHonestly I think that this doesn't work in DnD terms, because in terms of real-life folklore, gnomes and european elves are the same basic thing.

While I can see your point, I'm going to disagree on two fronts. The first is that I don't think D&D should be fettered to real-world folklore or any particular setting. There's no reason in Xeviat's world there can't be non-Tolkienian Elves or immature Elf adventurers or whatever. D&D's never been interested in fidelity to folklore or myth or to its own settings or canon.

The second is that gnomes specifically are not the same as elves in European folklore. Elves in Celtic/Nordic myth are usually otherworldly creatures, often mound-dwellers. Gnomes are specifically alchemical creatures - earth elementals - associated with the 16th century Renaissance alchemist and occultist Paracelsus ("elf" has a Norse etymology, "gnome" a Latin one). They're distinct creatures, not interchangeable. It's only in modern fantasy that gnomes have blurred with elves and various other fairy/fey things.

Quote from: Xeviat
But how would their society be? Little bands of elven children running around together for mutual protection, retreating to the courts of their parents when they run into trouble?

What does this make you envision?

I envision elf stages of maturity progressing very differently from humans. Perhaps instead of childhood -> adulthood they have a more complicated life cycle broken into several distinct phases, similar to insects? To keep with traditional elvish faerie-magic themes, transition from one stage to the next would be achieved via enchanted sleep which could take a very long time. Possibly they would need to go to some special place to incubate -- perhaps a Valinor-like magical realm normally accessible only to elves.

So first stage in the life of an elf would most closely resemble the human concept of childhood, being the time when the youngling is in the care of it's parents. In the second stage the elf is mentally 'matured' and starts living on it's own, yet remains quite small in size and has yet to acquire much in the way of innate magic, relying mostly on instincts and nimbleness. An elf in the third stage is physically most similar to a human, but possessed of some supernatural talents and connection to the fey world. The fourth stage sees the elf rise to a more legendary stature as a being of formidable wisdom and eldritch might -- in addition to being finally capable of procreation. A fifth stage would be reached by very few elves, being something of an apotheosis to immortal/demigod status.

The second and/or third stages could be playable (sub)races balanced with other options available for players.

Quote from: Steerpike

While I can see your point, I'm going to disagree on two fronts. The first is that I don't think D&D should be fettered to real-world folklore or any particular setting. There's no reason in Xeviat's world there can't be non-Tolkienian Elves or immature Elf adventurers or whatever. D&D's never been interested in fidelity to folklore or myth or to its own settings or canon.

The second is that gnomes specifically are not the same as elves in European folklore. Elves in Celtic/Nordic myth are usually otherworldly creatures, often mound-dwellers. Gnomes are specifically alchemical creatures - earth elementals - associated with the 16th century Renaissance alchemist and occultist Paracelsus ("elf" has a Norse etymology, "gnome" a Latin one). They're distinct creatures, not interchangeable. It's only in modern fantasy that gnomes have blurred with elves and various other fairy/fey things.

I meant "Same Basic Thing" in a sense of small pointy eared people with magical otherworldly cultures, but that was a poor generlization on my part.

From what I've researched the Dwarf figure came from Germanic mythology, and descends from Nordic mythology just like the elves. My main problem with the Dnd Gnome has always been that they don't seem to be that much different Dwarves. And it's funny that you mentioned how gnomes descended from Alchemy because that's how I envisioned gnomes my whole life. I feel like they should be more inventive and scientific rather than having the abilities they had. I would've played the heck out of a gnome had it had access to cool clockwork engineering abilities or Alchemy.

Quote from: Love of AwesomeDude, I've had the same thought. Honestly I think that this doesn't work in DnD terms, because in terms of real-life folklore, gnomes and european elves are the same basic thing. I always thought we got our elves from Tolkien who in turn got his elves from Nordic mythology. So you'd probably have to make some serious distinctions between gnomes and the smaller more fey like versions of elves.

I don't have traditional "gnomes" in my setting. The word "gnome" is used for earth spirits, along side salamanders, sylphs, and undines. So I won't have to worry about that.

This reminds me of a book that was given to my mother when she was growing up in Germany (the book was Dutch) called, simply, Gnomes. I absolutely loved it as a kid and if I remember correctly there was also a TV show dedicated to it. Without hijacking your idea, what if the Wee Elves where indeed Wee Elves, tiny little creatures living in the world of giant humans with gluttonous trolls, badger mounts, tree-cities, etc. You could still easily have the PCs be younger elves that develop formidable magical powers, but have them be "Wee Powers" - controlling moles or squirrels, having exceptionally green thumbs, wheeling and dealing with pixies and goblins, etc.

Edit: The animated series was called David the Gnome; I'm scared to watch it again though, that might ruin my childhood.

David the Gnome was an amazing series. The ending will ruin you.

This book? http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81abORXbgYL.jpg
It's a good book!

It's the best book!