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Starcraft Remastered Discussion Thread

Started by Hibou, April 26, 2017, 09:30:18 PM

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Hibou

April 26, 2017, 09:30:18 PM Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 09:35:29 PM by Hoers
Is anyone else freakin' pumped to play some Starcraft with upgraded graphics?! I've been watching various Twitch streamers for a couple of weeks in anticipation. I'm thinking I might attempt to make some new D&D/RP maps for the occasion, especially if they improve the map editor to the level that the 3rd-party tools are at.

EDIT: For those who haven't seen the video: Link
[spoiler=GitHub]https://github.com/threexc[/spoiler]

Xathan

#1
April 26, 2017, 10:01:49 PM Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 02:58:26 PM by Hoers
I'm super stoked for this. If Underdeep didn't reveal it, I'm a huge Starcraft fan. I'm really looking forward to getting to play the game all over again.

I hope they don't overly update the map editor, though. Starcraft 2's map editor made things - too - complex, IMO. I'd love something more in line with Warcraft III level, at most.
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Proud Receiver of a Golden Dorito
[spoiler=SRD AND OGC AND LEGAL JUNK]UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED IN THE POST, NONE OF THE ABOVE CONTENT IS CONSIDERED OGC, EXCEPT FOR MATERIALS ALREADY MADE OGC BY PRIOR PUBLISHERS
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Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

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[/spoiler]

Hibou

#2
April 27, 2017, 02:58:47 PM
Quote from: Xathan
I'm super stoked for this. If Underdeep didn't reveal it, I'm a huge Starcraft fan. I'm really looking forward to getting to play the game all over again.

I hope they don't overly update the map editor, though. Starcraft 2's map editor made things - too - complex, IMO. I'd love something more in line with Warcraft III level, at most.


Accidentally edited your post at first instead of quoting it :P

I think it'd be good if they did the following:

1) Increased the maximum map size (e.g. doubled the edge length from 256 to 512)

2) Doubled or even quadrupled the number of "doodads" (i.e. trees and scenery bits) that can be added to the maps

3) Added simplistic Warcraft 3-style hero creation, and all of the trappings that comes with

4) Kept the scripting system, but increased the maximum number of scripts per map (I think there was a limit)

5) Incorporated the no-clip features, extra faction colors, and bridge/ramp doodads (etc.) that have become standard in SCMDraft 2 (the third-party map editor of choice)

I think it's unlikely we see all or any of these, and even if we do, most of these features (except maybe #5's doodads) won't appear in the ladder/pro maps. They'd all be super cool though!
[spoiler=GitHub]https://github.com/threexc[/spoiler]

Polycarp

#3
April 27, 2017, 09:19:49 PM
I was never a big Starcraft fan, mostly because I'm a horrible scrub who couldn't win a multiplayer game to save his life.  I have, however, many times thought "they should just re-release [insert great old game here] with a few fixes and better graphics," and I think it's pretty funny that Blizzard apparently decided to do exactly that.
The Clockwork Jungle (wiki | thread)
"The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way." - Marcus Aurelius

Hibou

#4
April 27, 2017, 10:20:11 PM Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 01:34:27 PM by Hoers
Quote from: Polycarp
I was never a big Starcraft fan, mostly because I'm a horrible scrub who couldn't win a multiplayer game to save his life.  I have, however, many times thought "they should just re-release [insert great old game here] with a few fixes and better graphics," and I think it's pretty funny that Blizzard apparently decided to do exactly that.

My thoughts exactly. I expect they're going to monetize it in the "pay to be cool" way that DotA, Lol, Overwatch, etc. are going now. It's not like the original game looks awful, either. From what I've read since my previous post it doesn't sound like there will be many additions, which is unfortunate, but I can't complain too much.

EDIT: I had originally claimed that the new Remastered version would be free-to-play, but that no longer seems to be the case. The original is, however.
[spoiler=GitHub]https://github.com/threexc[/spoiler]

Steerpike

#5
April 28, 2017, 01:51:26 AM
Quote from: PolycarpI was never a big Starcraft fan, mostly because I'm a horrible scrub who couldn't win a multiplayer game to save his life.  I have, however, many times thought "they should just re-release [insert great old game here] with a few fixes and better graphics," and I think it's pretty funny that Blizzard apparently decided to do exactly that.

This seems to be a trend in roleplaying games and adventure games as well right now. Full Throttle just got a nice remastered version with a very pretty facelift, and Planescape: Torment also got an enhanced edition with fixes & better resolution.

Xathan

#6
April 28, 2017, 02:46:00 AM
I'm also loving this slowly emerging trend of "Just polish old games and re-release them."

QuoteFrom what I've read since my previous post it doesn't sound like there will be many additions, which is unfortunate, but I can't complain too much.

While that's a shame, all I really want is Starcraft but prettier, so I'm happy with whatever I can get.

I don't think I really can relay well how important Starcraft was to me at one point in time. That game influenced so many of my tastes: I fell in love with some of my favorite tropes because of that game:


  • Psionic powers + crystals
  • Alien swarms with a hive-mind
  • Constantly evolving foes/genetically engineered weapons
  • Corruption of a strong character
  • Religious fanatics as foes
  • Mecha
  • Gonzo sci-fi

And it goes on. Like, when they announced they were remastering Starcraft, at first I was terrified one of my favorite games was going to get just...ruined. Then they said it was literally just "Same game, better graphics and some bug fixes" and I breathed a huge sigh of relief.


...also, this is really making me want to do some kind of sci-fi game or setting.
AnIndex of My Work

Quote from: Sparkletwist
It's llitul and the brain, llitul and the brain, one is a genius and the other's insane
Proud Receiver of a Golden Dorito
[spoiler=SRD AND OGC AND LEGAL JUNK]UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED IN THE POST, NONE OF THE ABOVE CONTENT IS CONSIDERED OGC, EXCEPT FOR MATERIALS ALREADY MADE OGC BY PRIOR PUBLISHERS
Appendix I: Open Game License Version 1.0a
The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.
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Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Fudge 10th Anniversary Edition Copyright 2005, Grey Ghost Press, Inc.; Authors Steffan O'Sullivan and Ann Dupuis, with additional material by Jonathan Benn, Peter Bonney, Deird'Re Brooks, Reimer Behrends, Don Bisdorf, Carl Cravens, Shawn Garbett, Steven Hammond, Ed Heil, Bernard Hsiung, J.M. "Thijs" Krijger, Sedge Lewis, Shawn Lockard, Gordon McCormick, Kent Matthewson, Peter Mikelsons, Robb Neumann, Anthony Roberson, Andy Skinner, William Stoddard, Stephan Szabo, John Ughrin, Alex Weldon, Duke York, Dmitri Zagidulin
System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

Mutants and Masterminds Second Edition Copyright 2005, Green Ronin Publishing; Steve Kenson
Fate (Fantastic Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment) Copyright 2003 by Evil Hat Productions, LLC. Authors Robert Donoghue and Fred Hicks.
Spirit of the Century Copyright 2006 by Evil Hat Productions, LLC. Authors Robert Donoghue, Fred Hicks, and Leonard Balsera
Xathan's forum posts at http://www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2011, J.A. Raizman.
[/spoiler]

sparkletwist

#7
April 29, 2017, 04:27:28 PM
Quote from: XathanI'm also loving this slowly emerging trend of "Just polish old games and re-release them."
I must dissent, and emphatically so.

While there may be some merit in an upgraded remaster of some old game so that it's more in line with modern expectations, I also think that this is the lazy way out. The old game, after all, hasn't ceased to exist; you can usually still play it fine. So, aside from fancier graphics-- and I already think graphics are a bit overemphasized these days-- what's really the point?

There's little enough originality in big-name game releases as it is. Now we're going to settle for them releasing literally the exact same game?

Steerpike

#8
April 29, 2017, 06:29:01 PM
I'd for sure agree with you sparkletwist, if Blizzard hadn't made Overwatch last year, probably the best MOBA/multiplayer-only-fps I've ever played. If they want to re-release an old gem they've polished up to help fund future projects like that, I'm fine with it.

Xathan

#9
April 30, 2017, 01:23:31 AM
Quote from: sparkletwist
Quote from: XathanI'm also loving this slowly emerging trend of "Just polish old games and re-release them."
I must dissent, and emphatically so.

While there may be some merit in an upgraded remaster of some old game so that it's more in line with modern expectations, I also think that this is the lazy way out. The old game, after all, hasn't ceased to exist; you can usually still play it fine. So, aside from fancier graphics-- and I already think graphics are a bit overemphasized these days-- what's really the point?

There's little enough originality in big-name game releases as it is. Now we're going to settle for them releasing literally the exact same game?

I totally get where you're coming from here, but on the flip side, I don't see a harm here. Like Steerpike said, Blizzard made Overwatch recently, and keeps making DLCs for their existing games. Meanwhile, getting Starcraft to run at a resolution that doesn't look like ass is hard (many monitors are too high rez to actually make it look as good as it originally did). On top of that, at the same time they made the original free so you can still play it - there's no downside I can see here.
AnIndex of My Work

Quote from: Sparkletwist
It's llitul and the brain, llitul and the brain, one is a genius and the other's insane
Proud Receiver of a Golden Dorito
[spoiler=SRD AND OGC AND LEGAL JUNK]UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED IN THE POST, NONE OF THE ABOVE CONTENT IS CONSIDERED OGC, EXCEPT FOR MATERIALS ALREADY MADE OGC BY PRIOR PUBLISHERS
Appendix I: Open Game License Version 1.0a
The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.
1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.
2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.
3. Offer and Acceptance: By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.
4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.
5. Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.
6. Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder's name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.
7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.
8. Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.
9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.
10 Copy of this License: You MUST include a copy of this License with every copy of the Open Game Content You Distribute.
11. Use of Contributor Credits: You may not market or advertise the Open Game Content using the name of any Contributor unless You have written permission from the Contributor to do so.
12 Inability to Comply: If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Open Game Content due to statute, judicial order, or governmental regulation then You may not Use any Open Game Material so affected.
13 Termination: This License will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with all terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.
14 Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.
15 COPYRIGHT NOTICE
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Fudge 10th Anniversary Edition Copyright 2005, Grey Ghost Press, Inc.; Authors Steffan O'Sullivan and Ann Dupuis, with additional material by Jonathan Benn, Peter Bonney, Deird'Re Brooks, Reimer Behrends, Don Bisdorf, Carl Cravens, Shawn Garbett, Steven Hammond, Ed Heil, Bernard Hsiung, J.M. "Thijs" Krijger, Sedge Lewis, Shawn Lockard, Gordon McCormick, Kent Matthewson, Peter Mikelsons, Robb Neumann, Anthony Roberson, Andy Skinner, William Stoddard, Stephan Szabo, John Ughrin, Alex Weldon, Duke York, Dmitri Zagidulin
System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

Mutants and Masterminds Second Edition Copyright 2005, Green Ronin Publishing; Steve Kenson
Fate (Fantastic Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment) Copyright 2003 by Evil Hat Productions, LLC. Authors Robert Donoghue and Fred Hicks.
Spirit of the Century Copyright 2006 by Evil Hat Productions, LLC. Authors Robert Donoghue, Fred Hicks, and Leonard Balsera
Xathan's forum posts at http://www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2011, J.A. Raizman.
[/spoiler]

Steerpike

#10
April 30, 2017, 03:12:15 AM
The only downside I could see is that it could discourage companies from developing new games and rather devoting resources to old ones. But at least in Blizzard's case, this doesn't seem to have prevented them from doing some fantastic new stuff, and it seems possible that in the long run re-releasing old, dependably-profitable titles could actually help companies take cool risks.

LoA

#11
April 30, 2017, 11:22:51 AM Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 01:20:19 PM by LoA
I'm taking Sparkletwists side on this one. We are heading into dark times, and I see the rereleasing of old games as a symptom of that. What's happened to movies with Hollywood seeming to make only remakes of old movies, and the music industry which seems to be stuck between hyper processed music, or indie music, is what's happening to gaming. We are now stuck between big, bloated AAA gaming, or indie gaming. I don't see this fixing itself for a long time.

That said, I'm happy for the Starcraft fans here. Blizzard does make good games (Ones which I don't play for personal reasons), so I hope it turns out great for all of you.

Steerpike

#12
April 30, 2017, 01:48:27 PM
I don't disagree with that general assessment of the gaming industry, I just wonder whether re-releasing old games might actually be progress in the right direction.

I'm not saying that this is how developers/publishers etc think, but if given the choice between 2 cliched games/trite sequels or 1 remake of a brilliant game and 1 risk-taking original, I'd pick the latter. I suppose the worry is that companies would just go with 1 cliche and 1 remake, but that doesn't seem inevitable.

sparkletwist

#13
April 30, 2017, 01:53:25 PM
Quote from: Steerpikeit seems possible that in the long run re-releasing old, dependably-profitable titles could actually help companies take cool risks
Possible? Maybe, but I'll believe this when I see it. Major game publishers generally do not take risks. It seems more likely that releasing old, dependably-profitable titles will be used as a way to avoid taking risks, because they are just releasing a game that has been, you know, dependably profitable.

Anyway, it may well be that Blizzard is one of the best of a bad lot. I haven't actually looked into them in any depth but they don't seem as bad as, say, EA. Not that saying that is glowing praise or anything, but as I noted above in my first post, the Starcraft thing may well have some merit. The statement from Xathan that I quoted was about an emerging trend, and the trend as a whole was what I was criticizing.
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