The Campaign Builder's Guild

So I am looking into Starfinder, and I would personally like to know what's wrong with it from your guy's perspective. That sort of Juxtaposition is right up my alley, but I know that a lot of you chewed it out in the Tavern. I'd like to know why you think it's going to suck.

Not trying to troll here, I'm just potentially being tempted by the dark side.

Starfinder is Pathfinder in space. That may not sound like the worst thing in the world, but the problem is that's all it is. It's just Pathfinder in space.

It's the same Pathfinder rules, more or less. What few modifications there are seem to be mostly adapted from d20 Star Wars. So the amount of innovation crunch-wise seems to be rather minimal, and the amount of reverence for d20 sacred cows seems to be very high. It's still a class and level system with hp bloat and the 6 basic stats, no matter how ill-suited that is to a space opera game. Blasters do 1d4 damage so whatever.

They've got a "Jedi" class who conjures a force sword and various witch/monk type powers. If they're following Star Wars closely, this is going to be the best class in the game and everyone else will kind of suck in comparison. There are no full casters so this is a possibility.

As for the fluff, well... again, it's just Pathfinder in space. It's the same Pathfinder races, just flying around in space, with some new races they added, too. Space opera needs lots of alien races so it's not like this is a problem inherently, but for every complaint you can have about a certain race being "space elves" you might as well double it with Starfinder because it literally and unironically has space elves.

The canonical backstory is that Golarion seems to have mysteriously vanished and there's this amnesia (called simply 'the gap' because they apparently couldn't even bother to come up with an interesting name) that comes over everyone so nobody remembers what happened or where Golarion went or anything else related to all that, apparently. In other words, they took the most interesting thing that could've come out of "Pathfinder in space," which is the evolution of Golarion into a starfaring civilization and how all that actually worked out... and just decided they weren't going to bother doing any of that.

So yeah. I'm not excited or impressed.

I think sparkletwist's comments are spot-on. I probably won't get it, but if you were looking for reasons for/against I'd say get it if the following are true:

- You like the Pathfinder system (warts and all), but want more ready-to-use rules for science fiction elements.

- You want to run a science fantasy/space opera game similar to Mass Effect, Star Wars, or Guardians of the Galaxy, as opposed to something stranger or more specific - like Dune or Vance's Gaean Reach - or more hard SF.

- You aren't looking for innovative rules or an innovative setting, you're looking for something familiar adapted for science fiction that you can use as a base for your own SF game.

Quote from: sparkletwist
Starfinder is Pathfinder in space. That may not sound like the worst thing in the world, but the problem is that's all it is. It's just Pathfinder in space.

It's the same Pathfinder rules, more or less. What few modifications there are seem to be mostly adapted from d20 Star Wars. So the amount of innovation crunch-wise seems to be rather minimal, and the amount of reverence for d20 sacred cows seems to be very high. It's still a class and level system with hp bloat and the 6 basic stats, no matter how ill-suited that is to a space opera game. Blasters do 1d4 damage so whatever.

They've got a "Jedi" class who conjures a force sword and various witch/monk type powers. If they're following Star Wars closely, this is going to be the best class in the game and everyone else will kind of suck in comparison. There are no full casters so this is a possibility.

As for the fluff, well... again, it's just Pathfinder in space. It's the same Pathfinder races, just flying around in space, with some new races they added, too. Space opera needs lots of alien races so it's not like this is a problem inherently, but for every complaint you can have about a certain race being "space elves" you might as well double it with Starfinder because it literally and unironically has space elves.

The canonical backstory is that Golarion seems to have mysteriously vanished and there's this amnesia (called simply 'the gap' because they apparently couldn't even bother to come up with an interesting name) that comes over everyone so nobody remembers what happened or where Golarion went or anything else related to all that, apparently. In other words, they took the most interesting thing that could've come out of "Pathfinder in space," which is the evolution of Golarion into a starfaring civilization and how all that actually worked out... and just decided they weren't going to bother doing any of that.

So yeah. I'm not excited or impressed.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. My main impression was that it was Dragonstar "Pathfinderized", but that doesn't seem to  be the case. I'll just stick to hunting down Official Dragonstar crap.

Quote from: Steerpike
I think sparkletwist's comments are spot-on. I probably won't get it, but if you were looking for reasons for/against I'd say get it if the following are true:
- You want to run a science fantasy/space opera game similar to Mass Effect, Star Wars, or Guardians of the Galaxy, as opposed to something stranger or more specific - like Dune or Vance's Gaean Reach - or more hard SF.

- You aren't looking for innovative rules or an innovative setting, you're looking for something familiar adapted for science fiction that you can use as a base for your own SF game.

Eh, it's more like I want to pilfer it for interesting ideas. I like Star Wars and GotG (Just came back from that today actually) just fine, but I'm more interested in the Space Western Genre. So yeah, I'll just wait and see.

You might just find digging into the old Spelljammer setting to be more worth your while. Even if it's not the same kind of setting (not sure), you're probably going to find lots of stuff about it that you like and want to adapt.

"If you try to please everyone, you'll end up pleasing no one."

Starfinder to me seems to be an attempt to make a quintessential Space/Science-Fantasy setting, and in trying to capture a flavor that worked for everybody has little of its own.

When I  look at Starfinder I  see every Space Opera and Space/Science-Fantasy trope, I don't see one person's or even a group of peoples visions.

Dragon Age.

Elder Scrolls.

The Witcher.

All D&D derivative fantasy, however there are these bits and pieces that make each one distinct.



There is also the fact that Starfinder was "conveniently"  announced after the launch of the Aethera campaign setting  a third party rpg for Pathfinder.