The Elf-On-Every-World Project

SA · January 12, 2007, 08:49:20 AM

The Elf-On-Every-World Project
or
Why the Material Plane is so Boring

First, I must apologise for the deceptiveness of this thread's title. It does not, as the name might sugest, involve some insidious scheme by which we might covertly (or through brute force) debase innocent speculative demesnes within these boards through the blithe proliferation of the pointy-eared kind. This may disappoint some of the more ardent elf-lovers, but I am certain at least one vituperative dog amongst our ranks will be more than relieved ;) . The purpose of this thread is in fact a discussion of the Material Plane's racial composition as observed across the entirety of its worlds. My question is thus:

Why is the racial demographic of the archetypical D&D world echoed throughout its sibling worlds, and indeed the entire multiverse?

To elaborate: a generic setting involves elves, dwarves, orcs, halflings, gnomes and the ubiquitous humans. Similarly, the gods of these races can be found scattered across the multiverse. Now, ignoring for a moment the existence of any "non-core" race which might otherwise be considered "common" (and there are a great many), it would seem that the common races as presented in the Player's Handbook have a great degree of significance in the multiverse. Indeed, they each have at least a marginal presence in every plane, outer or inner, and many appear inherently foerign to the material plane (the elves or Arborea, for instance).

Why is this?

Now, this is not a criticism of the Cosmology. The nature of this situation is intriguing to both my creative and analytical aspects, and I wish only to make sense of a cosmic arrangement which seems to me half finished. Why are there elves on (nearly) every world? Or gnolls, for that matter? Are the natures of the creatures defined in the Core Rulebooks inextricably tied to the nature of the Material Plane in the same way that Yugoloths are tied to Hades? Did each archetypical race have its own reality of origin, and with time (or through momentous cataclysm) did these cosms converge, the resulting amalgam shattering into an infinity of worlds? Why do the races exist in such similar forms across incarnations, with comparable cultures? Perhaps the dwarf embodies something in the same way that an archon or a slaad embodies something; each race struggles to assert (often unkowingly) its fundamental ideal in a multiverse rampant with a million alien ideologies? By extension, does a racial god such as Gruumsh aspire through politicking in the Outer Planes to bring its "children's" ideal to the Cosmos? Or is there no ideal expressed in a material race than the idea of the race itself, and Gruumsh's task is naught but the preservation and proliferation of the orks?

Also, why these races? How are elves so different from men so different from dwarves so different from halflings...?

Those are a few of my speculations, and I wonder what yours might be. But be forewarned, I have no interest in such statements as "I gave up on the D&D cosmology specifically because of those unanswered questions", or "I just ignored that triviality." Nor will we say "Oh my, that had certainly not occurred to me" if you say "Well, obviously the races were put there to capitalise on the surge in popularity of The Lord of the Rings, and there was little thought put into the deeper implications of racial selection." We all know that. This is a specific discussion concerning the D&D cosmology from a narrative, creative and philosophical standpoint, not from a commercial perspective. Responses such as "Orcs represent the externalisation of personal inner turmoil" are are more interesting than "Orcs are there for players to kill, no matter what world they're on."

Beyond that, I look forward to responses.

-Salacious

Lmns Crn · January 12, 2007, 10:56:59 AM

Caveat: Can we be sure that an elf (or other race) on one world is comparable to an elf on another world? Or are we, as outside observers, simply applying the same label to different ideas, because those ideas may appear superficially similar.

Even if there are elves (or whatever!) on multiple worlds that are all descended from common stock rather than being simply conflated together over superficial similarities, they are almost certainly different enough now to make such a common origin fairly irrelevant. Take a culture, split it in half, and let each half grow up for hundreds or thousands of years, in isolation from the other, and you will render both halves incapable of recognizing each other. Divergent evolution will give them different physiologies, possibly even turn them into different species entirely. Cultural evolution will go off in two different directions as well. It's only a matter of time before these two seperated tribes, though they were once both "elves," are entirely different from one another. Can we still call that an echo of demographics?

I'm hesitant to consider these races as embodiments of fundamental ideals (although that might be the basis of an interesting in-game religious movement somewhere.) If we're going to consider that a possible explanation for the widespread proliferation of multiple distinct races, does that not imply that dwarves, gnomes, humans, et al each embody different and distinct things? The races themselves don't seem focused enough to make that convincing.

If you are looking for a logical justification, the best one I can come up with is "they thrive in a variety of places because they are well-adapted to do so." Like the common cold virus.

Jharviss · January 12, 2007, 11:18:08 AM

Those races don't exist on other worlds! Save the dwarves, which the great god Bandor brought with him to Aldreia, I have a hard time imagining that other worlds also, out of sheer coincidence, share the same racial system as Aldreia. This is profound and interesting. Perhaps it is a conspiracy set forth by the gods themselves?

In all seriousness, humanoid races are hard to design but still pique the interest of others. Think about it from a couple design aspects:

When roleplaying, people tend to create visions of their characters that are very human. A new roleplayer has a hard time seeing oneself portraying a four-armed walking insect that plays the fluit and fights with multiple axes. An elf, meanwhile, is a thin, often pale, long eared human that has fun to roleplay traits already built into the race. People play these races because they do not stretch the imagination to the point where it becomes obscure. People can still relate to their dwarven, halfling, or elven character. Do you know how a four-armed walking insect reproduces? Neither do I.

Orcs, gnolls, goblins, ogres - all of these races are humanoid but just different and exotic enough to merit an easy hatred. Orcs are disgusting, greenish, big, stupid brutes. It's easy to kill them because you have nothing in common with them. However, orcs have also proven to have a side that people can relate with. They are intelligent enough to prove a challenge and that is why people like orcs as enemies. They run the gamut of the evil spectrum.

My whole point is that these basic races are easy to relate to and designing new, easily related races is difficult. I could sit here and create a race of people that are a couple inches taller than humans, have jaws that jut out, and have earlobes that hang down to their necks, but selling the race would be difficult. Just with that brief description, particular the fact that the race is taller than humans, I imagine it being a strength-driven race. This is what happens to a lot of new races: they all become strength based.

Anyways, why create new races when there are perfect ones in the Player's Handbook? A well assimilated core race can fit into a world just fine.

Velox · January 12, 2007, 12:38:36 PM

Quote from: JharvissOne cannot change the shape of the head without it being comical.

More comical than a 4 foot tall zz top member with an oversized hammer? Races are as comical or as serious as you make them. Take "Oddworld: Strangers Wrath". While the games characters share the same innate cartoon-like aspect the whole series has, they can be serious and threatening, regardless of their face shape or inhuman characteristics.

Epic Meepo · January 12, 2007, 03:21:52 PM

There are humans on almost every plane because the human gods are among the rulers of the cosmos, and want their influence (in the form of subserviant mortals) to be felt everywhere. Same for dwarves, elves, orcs, and everyone else.

For examle, Gruumsh doesn't want to spread some ideal embodied by orcs. He wants to have mortal followers everywhere and happens to think that the orcish form is the best mortal form. And it isn't his task to proliferate orcs; it is the orcs' task to proliferate the preferred mortal frame envisioned by Gruumsh.

SDragon · January 12, 2007, 03:31:48 PM

we have no time for you and your silly english GUHHHHHHHHH-nomies! </outragous french accent>

seriously, though, there's a very good reason all these worlds have these races in common: these races, in particular, are expected by gamers. yes, we can design a world where the top 7 humanoid races are (insert seven obscure non-core PC races here), each with custom cultures, but when you announce that you're getting a game of d&d ready, what do you think your players will expect?

put another way:
"you smash in the face of a brutish, ugly green humanoid twice your size. he falls, and falls apart into a spore-cloud; with fear, you suddenly realize that's how this monster reproduces!"

that description could go for tons of homebrewed creatures, across tons of homebrewed worlds, but wouldn't most people assocate that with WH40K orks? the flipside is that you could play a game of warhammer and never run across a scene like that at all!

the fact of the matter is, most d&d worlds will include most- if not all- of the core races, because that's expected of a d&d world. same goes for core classes, as well as a lot of other core material.

@v-lox: assuming said member of ZZ top was pete beard, then you must be talking about halflings....

SA · January 12, 2007, 08:02:03 PM

Oh dear. IT seems to me the caveat of my final paragraph was either lost on the populace or ignored...

"This is a specific discussion concerning the D&D cosmology from a narrative, creative and philosophical standpoint, not from a commercial perspective."

So once again, to me, statements such as "seriously, though, there's a very good reason all these worlds have these races in common: these races, in particular, are expected by gamers." (sdragon1984) are entirely missing the point. This is a discussion of why gods/cosmic entities etcetera might have perpetuated the same races, not why game designers might have.

Quote from: LuminousEven if there are elves (or whatever!) on multiple worlds that are all descended from common stock rather than being simply conflated together over superficial similarities, they are almost certainly different enough now to make such a common origin fairly irrelevant. Take a culture, split it in half, and let each half grow up for hundreds or thousands of years, in isolation from the other, and you will render both halves incapable of recognizing each other. Divergent evolution will give them different physiologies, possibly even turn them into different species entirely. Cultural evolution will go off in two different directions as well. It's only a matter of time before these two seperated tribes, though they were once both "elves," are entirely different from one another. Can we still call that an echo of demographics?

hatred[/i] of orcs, and a general tendency to patronise the other common races. In addition, such notions of evolution do not hold as steadfast when cosmic, divine and spiritual forces constantly seek to change the destinies of every mortal. Correllon, for instance, might ensure that the elves are alwaysof his image, no matter the qualities of their world.

The fact that while mentioning the Material Plane as an infinity of worlds, depictions of the multiverse generally relate the other planes to a single recognised planet, might suggest that other material worlds could have different incarnations of races, if not different races altogether. However, if one looks at the common races of the Material that appear in the other planes, you will find, again and again, that they are the very same. Yes, we all know that this is by and large a means of shortcutting: no designer wants to detail; the representatives of every unique race in the cosmos on every plane when there are an infinite number of races; that would be preposterous. But taking that into account, how can one take this incarnation and expound upon it, rather than judging it preposterous and creating a wholly different, more plausible system? Thus far, Meepo's response seems the only one that got the point, and he himself raised an interesting point (people as representatives of gods, not vice versa).

Remember, once again, this is about creative explanations for the D&D (Core) cosmology, and in the D&D Core Cosmology, elves are everywhere. The same elves.

Why is that?

(Also, if you disagree with the "the races are the same across the cosmos" notion, bear with me, and simply exercise your creative muscles in juicy answers to this hypothetical)

SDragon · January 12, 2007, 08:29:43 PM

in retrospect, monty python references probably aren't the best way to make a point...

while, with many settings, i do see the same standardized races, i don't see that with all settings. Xiluh, in particular, has no gnomes. the elves hold no hatred towards orcs (of course, orcs don't exist), and while they consider elven achievements to be grand, there's no sense of superiority. elven affinity for nature isn't really that much greater then any other race, really.

but as for the settings (FR, greyhawk, and eberron being the big ones, of course), i think the metagame mindset might help this. in particular:

all of the cosmologies in these settings are actually planes in a much larger, much more subtle cosmology. the greatest of wizards have named this cosmology after the overdiety, Korewlboox.
even the most prestigious clerics have only heard hints of this divine power, and only ever from the Gods themselves. that said, collective research suggests that the power known as Korewlboox isn't a single entity, but instead a trinity that watches over not only the pantheons, but also the respective cosmologies of these settings.

creative enough?

Jharviss · January 13, 2007, 03:02:49 AM

I believe we are all misinterpretting your words, Salacious Angel, as I am not sure by what you mean by "creative." Are you asking us why designers choose to use the same elves and dwarves in virtually every world on the material plane, or are you asking why, in character, there seems to be an overarching coincidence of reoccuring races?

If it is the former, I believe my original post goes far to answer that question.

If it is the latter, I am floored. My world is cut off from the rest of the megaverse. There should be no way that the elves of my world would appear in any way like your elves. There is no Correlon or what have you. The elves created themselves and were not created by some god. I'm quite confused as to this conundrum.

Ghost · January 13, 2007, 04:05:08 AM

In Ifpherion, many of the PHB races (half-orc, half-elf, dwarf, gnome/halfling) are merely evolutionary branches of humanity. They are quite close to men (though some of them don't beleive or accept that); the only differences are ones emphasized by their natural origins. For example, the Jalarhi (Half-orcs) grew up in the thickly-forested hills and mountains, where their brute strength was necessary to lift logs and climb steep slopes. In contrast, the Albiz (half-elves) are descended from human tribes living on the wide, grassy plains, where speed, agility and a strategic mind were necessary. The Nanodzi (dwarves) were humans who adapted to working and living underground, while the gnomes were workers who were used as mechanics, spies, and construction labourers, suited to working both high in the air and in tight spaces.

But Ifpherion is far from being the only planet in the Ifpherion universe; seeing as though Ifpherion is a parallel to our own, there are millions upon untold millions of habitable planets on which life has arisen. It seems likely that Humans (as we know them) are rare, though the basic humanoid shape - vertical torso, symmetrical manipulating arms, 2 upright legs, and 1 head - is probably slightly more common. Though there are probably other lifeform cookie cutters that are more likely to evolve - maybe fish-like creatures, or large-scale amoebas. Especially with a universe with magic - almost every different kind of creature imaginable is possible.

I could elaborate better if I was a biologist, but alas.

As to why elves and other 'core races' (I still don't know why they use 'races' instead of 'species'...) appear on multiple worlds and planes, i'm not sure. I would think it has something to do with their magical powers, and not gods
(there's always a chance the gods' power might fade in the next plane). If an advanced, or even a primitive, society managed to open a portal to another world or plane, it's possible that both a male and female would settle in the new location, and thus propagate their species.

SDragon · January 13, 2007, 11:14:27 AM

so, convergent evolution?

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