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Chiaros: Affiliations that Want to Smash some Paladins

Started by Bill Volk, February 21, 2007, 12:49:29 AM

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Bill Volk

February 21, 2007, 12:49:29 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Bill Volk
I'm planning a war campaign in which the PCs are free and encouraged to be evil (or members of typically evil races and classes) as they square off against a lawful good empire. Here are the elements I have so far. Rather than beginning with a cosmology, I'm beginning by planning individual encounters and working outward.

 [spoiler=Expanded Premise]The PCs have lost their homes, and their families are either refugees, prisoners, or corpses. They are victims of the Holy Kingdom of Chiaros, which is expanding into the West and driving out or exterminating â,¬Å"undesirableâ,¬Â races and cultures. The unspoken pact between the Seven Priest-Kings of Chiaros and the Western towns and tribes of â,¬Å"demihumansâ,¬Â has been broken, and the kingdom is at war with the various orc and goblinoid tribes, illegal cults, and other power groups over the fate of the Western Borderlands. However, the various power groups that oppose the kingdomâ,¬,,¢s advance are not yet united, and the tensions between the diverse enemies of the kingdom may spell doom for all who do not swear allegiance to the Priest-Kings.[/spoiler]

 [spoiler=Races and Classes]Every PC must provide a personal motivation for opposing the kingdom's invasion. Members of the recommended races and classes are persecuted enough by Chiaros that they shouldn't have much trouble finding one.

Good Racial Choices
Goblinoids (goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears)
Half-Fiends
Half-Orcs
Kobolds
Ogres
Orcs
Tieflings

Good Class Choices
Barbarian
Cleric of anything other than the Celestial Hebdomad
Druid
Sorcerer
Warlock

[/spoiler]

 [spoiler=Affiliations]

Here are some of the factions opposed to Chiaros and its nasty paladins.
I'm debating wether to use the affiliation system from PHB2. I'd appreciate if people who've used it would comment over whether it's worth it to use the system and completely flesh out each affiliation.

Wiegraf Dwarfbreaker and the Orc Tribes (tribe, racial, scale 9)
Nomadic barbarian tribes of orcs still roam the hills and plains of the Western borderlands as they have for millennia. Their numbers, as well as their fighting skill, are greater than Chiaros had expected, and at the orcs presently represent the majority of troops that oppose the invasion. Wiegraf is an enormous, brutish yet charismatic orc warlord who famously tore a dwarven general in two over his head during one of the first battles against Chiaros. He serves as the de facto ruler of the largest number of tribes, and he has his eye on recruiting the goblinoids, kobolds, and other races in the area to create a massive, unified Horde of the West under his name.

The Three Nations of Gob (government, racial, scale 8 )
The civilized goblinoid towns in the Western Borderlands â,¬' governed by a tricameral legislature of goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears â,¬' enjoyed peaceful relations and even trade with Chiaros before the invasion. Now many Gob towns have been ransacked and destroyed, and its noncombatants â,¬Å"mercifullyâ,¬Â sent to forced labor camps. Citizens flee to the remaining Gob towns, and the mayors and the gobliniod coucil are still debating over how to respond.

The Three Treasures Temple (temple, scale 4)
The Three Treasures Temple is gone. Once a large monastery located on a hill outside a minor Chiaran city, the templeâ,¬,,¢s monks not only sought to perfect their bodies and marial arts techniques, but offered martial training to commoners in the surrounding communities and any others who asked. This proactive, anti-isolationist discipline led the Priest-Kings to consider the temple a threat, and a vast army laid siege to the temple. After five days, the monastery fell and its namesake three treasures were confiscated. Most of the monks fought to the death, but a few, including those who were dispatched to other towns when the siege began, have found their way to the West to join the fight against Chiaros.

The Fraternity of Fireblood (college, scale 8 )
The Firebloods are a broad circle of creatures, mostly kobolds, that seek to protect and advance sorcerous magic in the world. Spread among nearly every kobold settlement in the West yet surprisingly sophisticated. They do not worship true dragons per se, but they hold the belief that the original, disembodied spark of dragonfire created the first life from an empty world of clay, and that creatures with the gift of magic in their blood are more fundamentally alive than more mundane creatures. They offer counsel, training, and a magic item exchange for their members.

The Golden Peach (spy ring, scale 4)
The Golden Peach is a loose collective of bards and anarchists whose existence is not taken seriously by Chiaros. They have historically been all talk and little action, but the strongest, bravest and craziest Peachers see the kingdomâ,¬,,¢s present military engagement as an opportunity for violent revolution.

[/spoiler]

I'd like suggestions on the setup, factions, and ways to preserve party unity without forcing them to be good or to adopt the played-to-death "misunderstood hero fighting racism" archetype. Although I hope that the campaign will be more about fun than moral/ethical introspection, feel free to post comments about D&D's good/evil axis and the prospect of good-aligned enemies (either genuinely good characters or Obnoxious Paladin stereotypes).

Epic Meepo

#1
February 21, 2007, 01:44:15 PM
Quote from: redlawful good empire[/color]... They are victims of the Holy Kingdom of Chiaros, which is expanding into the West and driving out or exterminating â,¬Å"undesirableâ,¬Â races and cultures.
The paladins-as-foes concept sounds interesting, though I'd question the set-up as currently written. How does a culture that actively commits genocide qualify as lawful good?
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Matt Larkin (author)

#2
February 21, 2007, 02:16:52 PM
I second Meepo.  Also, make sure you're players are up for this sort of thing.  It would appeal to some people, but not others.  I would generally have serious second-thoughts about a campaign where the GM encourages evil characters.

This sounds like the kind of thing where you are better off dropping alignment (or at least the pretext of alignment being related), and create a situation of moral ambiguity.
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So-Keher

#3
February 21, 2007, 04:34:04 PM
I agree with both above, but I think they arent necessarily genocidal but in common fantasy, you are always killing orcs and ogres without much question. This is from their point of view.

@Volk: Welcome to the CBG! I like your factions ideas. Make sure for the PC's you have entry requirements, like level or skill ranks or feats etc, so not everyone can join. Maybe even by race (would make sense for your Three Nations of Gob etc). Maybe they have to pay a monthly fee of around...50gp or so to stay joined. Also, make ranks in the guild or faction that PC's can rise in to add realism, maybe getting followers as per the Leadership feat once they get high enough.
My Setting:
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Matt Larkin (author)

#4
February 21, 2007, 04:48:29 PM
Heh, So-Keher, Volk has been around a while.

If you buy the alignment system as presented in D&D (I stopped using it, though not for this reason), a society killing off orcs because they are orcs is still comitting an evil act.  If they are killing orcs because the orcs are raiding, murdering, and so forth, then it's a different story.  But just attacking a sentient race is generally not an LG thing to do.

You mean to suggestion requirements for the affiliations?  While race might make sense, an organization that requires skill ranks is somewhat dubious from inside the game world.  At best, it should be a test, which is something along the lines of steal this pouch.  And that's going to be stuff like ranks, ability scores, and plain luck, not just skill ranks, which they could never measure.

A side note: Demihuman is a dumb name.  I know you didn't make it up, but "demi" would imply "sub" or "partly."  It's always bugged me.  Humanoids is a much better choice.
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Bill Volk

#5
February 21, 2007, 05:54:15 PM
Maybe you're right, and I should give the lawful-good guys a little more credit. Here's why my idea is the way it is:

When my particular group of players tries to play it straight, they have the unfortunate habit of trying to rationalize anything they want to get away with. I want to do two things: eliminate the need to do that, and provide an example of enemies who do that, as a kind of criticism by parody. (I think the designer of Eberron was going for this a little bit in the nation of Thrane.) I also see it as a chance for the players to vent their emotions toward moralizing characters, and to try their hand against all the good-aligned monsters in the MM, for a change.

As it is, the kingdom's paladins have various ways of rationalizing the invasion. They want to protect the kingdom's innocent pioneers and settlers from the savage humanoids, they want to spread the benefits of civilization an lawful-good religion, and (although this is one didn't work at Nuremburg) they want to obey their superiors. Sure, they probably draw the line at killing noncombatants, but they can still displace them or imprison them (usually indefinitely) until they reform. They see this behavior as "hacking at the root of evil rather than the branches." After all, a baby orc is like a pet baby crocodile: they're cute at frist, but it's irresponsible to forget that they grow up.

What does everyone else think? Is this too distracting? Should I make the enemies in this campaign more unambiguously good?

Bill Volk

#6
February 21, 2007, 06:00:25 PM
Oh, and in response to Kishar, I'm using the in-game term "demihuman" for half-orcs and all races not in the PHB precisely because it sounds derogatory. In-game, the invaders think of these races as sub-human simply because they don't know any other word for them. It's easier to smash a paladin's face after he calls you a demihuman, even if he didn't think he was causing any harm by it.

brainface

#7
February 21, 2007, 06:24:45 PM
I don't see a problem with the alignments as long as it works with your group. I mean, in a host of stock adventures i've seen (say, the official campaign in neverwinter nights), the good group walks into the home of the evil guys and starts slaughtering them. I see where you're going with this.

I'm not entirely clear whether you want alignment to be based on individual actions or group membership. (Paladins are good because they're paladins.) That may be something you want to sort out with players beforehand, due to alignment prerequisites and such.
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire

So-Keher

#8
February 21, 2007, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: Phoenix KnightHeh, So-Keher, Volk has been around a while.
[/blockquote]
QuoteYou mean to suggestion requirements for the affiliations?  While race might make sense, an organization that requires skill ranks is somewhat dubious from inside the game world.  At best, it should be a test, which is something along the lines of steal this pouch.  And that's going to be stuff like ranks, ability scores, and plain luck, not just skill ranks, which they could never measure.

It would never be anything serious, just stuff to make sure the character has something to do with the guild. For example, if any of them deal with a lot of history, make a requirement of 1 rank in Knowledge (history). Nothing like 8 ranks or anything. That's a prestige class.
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beejazz

#9
February 22, 2007, 01:41:57 AM
I looove playing "evil," where evil is simply not having to rationalize my actions with the greater good in mind. Mind you, I still rationalize. I just rationalize on the basis of fun things... like paranoia.
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QuoteI don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

Matt Larkin (author)

#10
February 22, 2007, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Bill VolkOh, and in response to Kishar, I'm using the in-game term "demihuman" for half-orcs and all races not in the PHB precisely because it sounds derogatory. In-game, the invaders think of these races as sub-human simply because they don't know any other word for them. It's easier to smash a paladin's face after he calls you a demihuman, even if he didn't think he was causing any harm by it.
That actually kind of makes sense.  I can see your point.

Did you refer to me by my setting name?  I suppose it is good to be associated with your work...
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Epic Meepo

#11
February 22, 2007, 02:01:17 PM
Quote from: beejazzI looove playing "evil," where evil is simply not having to rationalize my actions with the greater good in mind...
Isn't that just neutral? (Or chaotic, if your actions are very strange?)
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System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Swords of Our Fathers Copyright 2003, The Game Mechanics.

Mutants & Masterminds Copyright 2002, Green Ronin Publishing.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

Epic Meepoââ,¬â,,¢s forum posts at www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2007, E.W. Morton.

Cebexia, Tapestry of the Gods Copyright 2006-2007, the Campaign Builder's Guild.[/spoiler]

Bill Volk

#12
February 23, 2007, 12:51:45 PM
Oops, I guess I did refer to you by your setting name. Sorry, Phoenix Knight. Not quite sure how that happened...

Anyway, I've thought up requirements for membership that make sense in-game. I Agree with Phoenix Knight that the requisites for promotion suggested in PHB2 might strain the players' suspension of disbelief, so I'll handle things more freeform and according to each affiliation's structure.

[spoiler=Wiegraf's tribes]Wiegraf Dwarfbreaker and the Orc Tribes (tribe, racial, scale 9)
Nomadic barbarian tribes of orcs still roam the hills and plains of the Western borderlands as they have for millennia. Their numbers, as well as their fighting skill, are greater than Chiaros had expected, and at the orcs presently represent the majority of troops that oppose the invasion. Wiegraf is an enormous, brutish yet charismatic orc warlord who famously tore a dwarven general in two over his head during one of the first battles against Chiaros. He serves as the de facto ruler of the largest number of tribes, and he has his eye on recruiting the goblinoids, kobolds, and other races in the area to create a massive, unified Horde of the West under his name.

Requisite: If not born into a tribe, must defeat a tribeâ,¬,,¢s champion in single combat (not to the death, until one fighter surrenders or is unable to continue)

Positive Factors
Being a barbarian, druid or ranger
Successfully completing missions for Wiegraf and his lesser chieftains
Participating in raids on human settlements
Providing information that leads to a successful raid
Getting another orc tribe to join Wiegraf's alliance
Taking a Holy Avenger as a trophy after killing its owner

Negative Factors
Not being an orc
Being a cleric, wizard or paladin
Failing a mission
Refusing a challenge from another orc
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=The Three Nations of Gob]The Three Nations of Gob (government, racial, scale 8 )
The civilized goblinoid towns in the Western Borderlands â,¬' governed by a tricameral legislature of goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears â,¬' enjoyed peaceful relations and even trade with Chiaros before the invasion. Now many Gob towns have been ransacked and destroyed, and its noncombatants â,¬Å"mercifullyâ,¬Â sent to forced labor camps. Citizens flee to the remaining Gob towns, and the mayors and the goblinoid council are still debating how to respond.

Requisite: If not a goblinoid, must pay a tribute of 500 gold.

Positive Factors
Being a goblin, hobgoblin, or bugbear
Being a rogue
Owning a profitable business
Following orders from the Gob council and the mayors of Gob towns
Saving a Gob town from destruction
Offering bribes in exchange for promotion

Negative Factors
Being human
Being known to worship the Celestial Hebdomad
Failing a mission
Attacking a Gob citizen
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=The Three Treasures Temple]The Three Treasures Temple (temple, scale 4)
The Three Treasures Temple is gone. Once a large monastery located on a hill outside a minor Chiaran city, the templeâ,¬,,¢s monks not only sought to perfect their bodies and marial arts techniques, but offered martial training to commoners in the surrounding communities and any others who asked. This proactive, anti-isolationist discipline led the Priest-Kings to consider the temple a threat, and a vast army laid siege to the temple. After five days, the monastery fell and its namesake three treasures were confiscated. Most of the monks fought to the death, but a few, including those who were dispatched to other towns when the siege began, have found their way to the West to join the fight against Chiaros.

Requisite: To be fit for initial training, must have a Constitution of at least 15 (or at least 7, if the character has the Endurance feat)

Positive Factors
Being a monk
Completing a mission for the original Temple Survivors
Training any group of noncombatants in self-defense (effectively making them first-level Warriors)
Providing food and shelter to at least five monks in the Western Borderlands
Recovering one of the Three Treasures

Negative Factors
Being a wizard, sorceror, bard, or arcivist
Having a history of service in Chiaros' army
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=The Firebloods]The Fraternity of Fireblood (college, scale 8 )
The Firebloods are a broad circle of creatures, mostly kobolds, that seek to protect and advance sorcerous magic in the world. Spread among nearly every kobold settlement in the West yet surprisingly sophisticated. They do not worship true dragons per se, but they hold the belief that the original, disembodied spark of dragonfire created the first life from an empty world of clay, and that creatures with the gift of magic in their blood are more fundamentally alive than more mundane creatures.

Requisite: If not a sorcerer or a creature with spell-like abilities, must donated a desired magic item to the fraternityâ,¬,,¢s vault.

Positive Factors
Being a kobold or half-dragon
Being a sorceror or warlock
Completing a mission or serving as a researcher or vault guard
Regularly donating magic items
Saving the life of a young sorceror or another creature with magical potential

Negative Factors
Being a divine spellcaster
Being rude to a kobold
Stealing from the organization
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=The Golden Peach]The Golden Peach (spy ring, scale 4)
The Golden Peach is a loose collective of bards and anarchists whose existence is not taken seriously by Chiaros. They have historically been all talk and little action, but the strongest, bravest and craziest Peachers see the kingdomâ,¬,,¢s present military engagement as an opportunity for violent revolution.

Requisite: Must succeed at a DC 16 Perform check before an audience of Peachers. Also, Peachers conduct a background check on every prospective applicant with a Gather Information check at +15. Applicants with known ties to the Chiaran government or major merchant guilds are rejected.

Positive Factors
Being a bard or swashbuckler
Being famous
Escaping from a Chiaros prison
Donating at least 10,000 gold to the ever-strapped-for-cash organization

Negative Factors
Being a divine spellcaster
Displaying a lawful alignment
Revealing any of the Peach's secrets, no matter how trivial
Expressing displeasure at any senior Peacher's performance
[/spoiler]

Matt Larkin (author)

#13
February 23, 2007, 01:06:05 PM
By positive and negative factors, do mean towards the likelihood of being accepted by the guild?

I make another entry for each that specifies benefits of membership.

I'm sorry, I would never join a guild called the Golden Peach.  A man has to have some dignity.  I love the name "Wiegraf and the Dwarfbreakers," though.
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Bill Volk

#14
February 23, 2007, 04:04:17 PM
The factors are the factors that influence promotion. Characters just have to satisfy the first requirement to get in. I'm still working out the benefits of membership at various levels, and I'll put them up soon.

And now that I think of it, "Wiegraf and the Dwarfbreakers" would also make a good band name.
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