Discussion: Classes

Túrin · March 30, 2006, 08:45:20 AM

This thread is to discuss classes, both fluff- and crunch-wise.

As always in this stage of the project, try to focus your thoughts on establishing and expanding the Core Ethos in this area. We don't just want to hear what you think would be a really cool way to handle classes, but rather what would be a really cool way for THIS SETTING to handle classes. The Core Ethos isn't definitive yet, of course, but it seems definitive enough that we can discuss other topics assuming that it is.

;) Túrin

Xathan · March 30, 2006, 11:45:36 AM

I think we should have a couple of setting specific classes that really bring out the settings flavor, much like the artificer in Eberron. I'm thinking about a Totem Warrior class, tied to the Totems people worship.

Also, we need to decide what magic we will have, as that will effect what classes we put in.

Wix of Bel-Air · March 30, 2006, 03:48:22 PM

I think it'd be quite interesting if we could change up the classes already existing or make new classes to fit our world. I don't know, we might need mroe insight on this.

Xathan · March 30, 2006, 05:15:05 PM

Oh, and I'm going advise we subtly nerf divine spellcasters down to the level of Arcane, or visa versa - the two types shouldn't be so unbalanced. As Nate said in the magic thread, boosting up sorcerers would be nice as well.

Ishmayl-Retired · March 30, 2006, 05:36:46 PM

I like the totem-warrior idea; much like the one in "Arcana Unearthed," which is a bit like a ranger, but not quite. I think all the core classes should be included (even though I hate monks and find them to be totally out of place in most western-feudalism-based campaigns), but we should definitely look into some original classes to spice things up.

Numinous · March 30, 2006, 07:37:01 PM

There was a nice witch class at www.community3e.com , I used to lurk there... I don't have a very good head for mechanics though, so someone might want to check it over...

brainface · March 30, 2006, 08:10:21 PM

QuoteI like the totem-warrior idea;

maybe we could do some substitute-level stuff for totem abilities. i kinda hate to add new cool stuff that existing classes couldn't use. maybe just a smattering of totemish(/ BFG-ish)-feats tailored for the existing classes, in addition to a totem-warrior class?

Xeviat · March 30, 2006, 08:11:31 PM

Well, Unearthed Arcana is OGL, so we could easily use some of those variants to re-flavor our classes (especially the totem barbarian variant and the aspect of nature druid variant).

Adding any new classes, in my opinion, should be done from a thematic standpoint. For instance, since Good vs. Evil seems to be less strong in our current cosmological theme, perhaps the Paladin isn't appropriate. Here's a little idea that came to me:

Druids are the priests of the totems; no druid is married to a single totem (they may have a favorite), and they serve them all relatively equally (explaining why they are required to remain relatively neutral). Rangers are the totem's "divine warrior", and their tradition was forged out of the necessity to live off the land and take the "hunt" to the non-believers who would seek to defile the natural beauty of the totem's world.

Clerics are the priests of the new deities (I still like the idea of them being deified heroes and leaders from the Lost Empire). Rather than sticking with Paladins, I have a Templar class. It isn't perfect yet, since it was originally designed and balanced for my world. Here, I'll post the class chart and I'll link a zip file with the class itself.

I do have ideas on how to change clerics; it isn't a balance change, but a thematic change to make them more unique. Rather than cleric's spontaneously casting cure/inflict spells, they spontaneously cast their domain spells. To balance this, one must also remove the +1 spell slot gained for domain spells. This would make the Healing domain an important domain, as it should be, and it makes clerics with different domains actually different from each other. It isn't really a difficult change to make either.

Here's the Templar class chart:

TEMPLAR
HD: d10
Skills: 2+Int/level; Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (religion), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft.
Alignment: Same as Deity's.
Proficiencies: Simple and Martial Weapons, Light, Medium, and Heavy armor, and Shields (but not Tower Shields).

Code Select

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special			Spells Per Day
								1	2	3	4
1st	+1	+2	+0	+2	Smite 1/day, Domains	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
2nd	+2	+3	+0	+3	Divine Grace		Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
3rd	+3	+3	+1	+3	Mettle			Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
4th	+4	+4	+1	+4	War Companion		0+1	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
5th	+5	+4	+1	+4	Smite 2/day		0+1	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
6th	+6	+5	+2	+5				1+1	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
7th	+7	+5	+2	+5	Damage Reduction 1/-	1+1	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
8th	+8	+6	+2	+6				1+1	0+1	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
9th	+9	+6	+3	+6				1+1	0+1	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
10th	+10	+7	+3	+7	Smite 3/day,		1+1	1+1	Ã¢,¬'	Ã¢,¬'
					Damage Reduction 2/-
11th	+11	+7	+3	+7				1+1	1+1	0+1	Ã¢,¬'
12th	+12	+8	+4	+8				1+1	1+1	1+1	Ã¢,¬'
13th	+13	+8	+4	+8	Damage Reduction 3/-	1+1	1+1	1+1	Ã¢,¬'
14th	+14	+9	+4	+9				2+1	1+1	1+1	0+1
15th	+15	+9	+5	+9	Smite 4/day		2+1	1+1	1+1	1+1
16th	+16	+10	+5	+10	Damage Reduction 4/-	2+1	2+1	1+1	1+1
17th	+17	+10	+5	+10				2+1	2+1	2+1	1+1
18th	+18	+11	+6	+11				3+1	2+1	2+1	1+1
19th	+19	+11	+6	+11	Damage Reduction 5/-	3+1	3+1	3+1	2+1
20th	+20	+12	+6	+12	Smite 5/day		3+1	3+1	3+1	3+1

Now, I personally think the class should have 3/4ths BAB, but it should gain weapon focus, specialization, greater focus, and greater specialization in their deity's favored weapon at levels 1, 6, 12, and 18. This would keep them at about the same strength as a character with full BAB without those feats (technically it is a little weaker), but it would make them a little more unique. They wouldn't be the greatest warriors without their deity's weapon in hand.

PS: Their Smite is only usable with their Deity's favored weapon, so it has it's limitations. Also, this class was designed to replace the War domain; so no taking Templar with the War domain. Hah. Their spell list will be the paladin's, altered to conform to the Templar's alignment, with the War domain spells added in (if any are missing that is). They also need a spell which allows them to summon their deity's favored weapon, just in case theirs is lost or destroyed.

I hope you like it.
File: 1143767491_29_FT2657_templar_cbg.zip

brainface · March 30, 2006, 08:21:41 PM

QuoteRather than cleric's spontaneously casting cure/inflict spells, they spontaneously cast their domain spells.

absolutely[/i] need to heal. or, rather--the other party members need that cleric to be healing them. removing spontaneous healing forces clerics to make a substandard domain choice in order to help the party, or rewards them for considering themselves over the rest of the party. i mean that's how i see it. either that or it makes them memorize a bunch of cure spells, even though they have the destruction and strength domains, which doesn't make any damned sense. ;)

Ishmayl-Retired · March 30, 2006, 08:28:17 PM

The "Champion" class from Monte Cooke's "Arcana Unearthed," may be a viable choice to replace the paladin, though I don't know how much of AU we can use before stepping on copyrighted toes...

brainface · March 30, 2006, 08:39:37 PM

meh, we dont need to replace the paladin. if we want a totemish champ, they can exist straight along side the ole pally. you don't have to remove a class so you have an empty slot to put another one in.

daggerhart · March 30, 2006, 08:41:33 PM

couldnt we just keep core, and re-name them according to culture?

i mean;
totem zealot = paladin
totem shaman = cleric

whatever.

do we need different classes?

Ishmayl-Retired · March 30, 2006, 08:58:35 PM

I think the issue with the paladin is the fact that it's a class for one alignment. The champion makes a paladin-like class that focuses on any alignment or cause. But it doesn't matter too much...

daggerhart · March 30, 2006, 09:28:40 PM

that sounds good then.

i was just going to say un-alignment-restrict the paladin.

Xeviat · March 31, 2006, 12:06:27 AM

Quote from: brainface
QuoteRather than cleric's spontaneously casting cure/inflict spells, they spontaneously cast their domain spells.
absolutely[/i] need to heal. or, rather--the other party members need that cleric to be healing them. removing spontaneous healing forces clerics to make a substandard domain choice in order to help the party, or rewards them for considering themselves over the rest of the party. i mean that's how i see it. either that or it makes them memorize a bunch of cure spells, even though they have the destruction and strength domains, which doesn't make any damned sense. ;)

Why not? That's what the cleric thinks is beneficial for their spell power. The all cure cleric with destruction/death can prepare all cures, and then when they need it convert them to inflicts or death spells.

And this also makes healing not a substandard domain. Healing is substandard because clerical healing is so easy.

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Discussion: Classes

Túrin

Xathan

Wix of Bel-Air

Xathan

Ishmayl-Retired

Numinous

brainface

Xeviat

brainface

Ishmayl-Retired

brainface

daggerhart

Ishmayl-Retired

daggerhart

Xeviat