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How do you not get depressed by dark settings?

Started by SilvercatMoonpaw, April 11, 2007, 06:00:52 PM

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Bryan Lovely

#15
April 12, 2007, 04:10:29 AM
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawWhere are the settings that say "Look, the place is messed up, but it's not impossible to live in"?
Well, mine, for one.

1. 'Cause, hey, they're populated by human beings. Who are just exactly as corrupt, charitable, venal, altruistic, violent, and loving as human beings in the real world.

2. I don't believe in externalized evil in Real Life and I won't have it in my settings either. (No alignments and no aligned gods in my fantasy settings.)

3. As to near-future dystopian settings (the cyberpunk cliché), I just don't find them believable since my take on current trends is that they will lead toward greater freedom and independence, not greater oppression.
==================

Bryan Lovely

running:  The League of Tarregon, a GURPS 4th ed. Space/Traveller game

"The frogurt is also cursed!"

SilvercatMoonpaw

#16
April 12, 2007, 08:33:45 AM
Quote from: Sविष्णुA...But getting right back to the core of this thread, may I ask, why does it depress you?
For the same reason I pick up the newspaper, red about some terrible event in the world, and feel sorry for those it affects.

And don't tell me "But the setting's not real".  Because I also hear too much about making the games "real", trying to pull people in based on familiarity to RL.  These two sentiments opperate at cross-purposes.  Any amount of reality in a game evokes the same feelings about its inhabitants that I feel about RL.

I'm asking this question because it makes no sense that you just accept this level of suffering being inflicted upon these beings without flinching.  I need to know why.
I'm a muck-levelist, I like to see things from the bottom.

"No matter where you go, you will find stupid people."

Ishmayl-Retired

#17
April 12, 2007, 10:05:05 AM
Like LC said above, I haven't seen any settings (on these boards, at least) that are so dark that there is no hope.  I mean, there's got to be a level of darkness in a campaign if you want to run a "good" campaign; otherwise, those "good" players won't have anything to struggle against.  Even Dystopia (which, by the way, I disagree with the author, and believe it is a dark setting - which just proves that it's all a matter of perspective, since the author himself disagrees) has a certain measure of hope.  Otherwise, the humans, elves, and cephalopods would all just give up, and there wouldn't be a setting to write about!  I'm not trying to justify that you need darkness to get to the light, I'm simply saying that you need darkness to fight darkness.  I don't know if that really came out how I wanted it to...Maybe that's too abstract; I've been re-reading Daniel Quinn again.
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For finite types, like human beings, getting the mind around the concept of infinity is tough going.  Apparently, the same is true for cows.

Moniker

#18
April 12, 2007, 10:18:20 AM
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawI must say, I find the idea "You need darkness to show off the light" to be one of the most idiotic concepts out there.  If you don't like the darkness alone for it's own merits then you don't like it.  There is no couching of this point for me, because I see so many people curse the darkness, light a candle, then curse the darkness even more.

I enjoy running a David Mamet-styled campaign. The players seem to enjoy it, too. Although, I don't enjoy running a campaign that presents futility over all. There has to be some reward for efforts given against the villain, enemy, or what have you.

To me, the campaign is not about good versus evil. It's order versus disorder and the players have a tendancy to be at odds with law and tradition. The struggle between good forces and evil forces simply doesn't exist in my game whatsoever.
The World of Deismaar
a 4e campaign setting

SDragon

#19
April 12, 2007, 11:42:18 AM
Quote from: brainface
Quote from: The mighty rainbowcorn.[table=Rainbowcorn]
[tr][td]Size/Type:[/td][td]Large Magical Beast (Extraplanar)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hit Dice:[/td][td]15d10 + 75 (157 hp)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Initiative:[/td][td]+4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Speed:[/td][td]60 ft. (12 squares)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Armor Class:[/td][td]24 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +6 natural, +5 deflection), touch 18, flat-footed 22[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Base Attack/Grapple:[/td][td]Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+24[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Attack:[/td][td]Horn +23 melee (1d8+10+1d6 energy)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Full Attack:[/td][td]Horn +23 melee (1d8+10+1d6 energy) and 2 hooves +21 melee (1d4+3)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Space/Reach:[/td][td]10 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. w/ horn)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Special Attacks:[/td][td]Horn of hues, prismatic heart, rainbow charge[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Special Qualities:[/td][td]Damage reduction 10/cold iron, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to poison, charm, and compulsion, low-light vision, spectrum shield, scent, spell-like abilities, spell resistance 20, wild empathy[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saves:[/td][td]Fort +16, Ref +12, Will +15[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Abilities:[/td][td]Str 24, Dex 18, Con 20, Int 13, Wis 27, Cha 22[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Skills:[/td][td]Concentration +11, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (the planes) +8, Listen +15, Move Silently +12, Spellcraft +5, Spot +15, Survival +15 (+17 on other planes)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Feats:[/td][td]Alertness, Combat Casting, Run, Multi-attack, Skill Focus (Survival), Weapon Focus (Horn)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Environment:[/td][td]Any outer plane.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Organization:[/td][td]Carnival (20-50 aasimar, human, and various humanoid carnival works plus 200% noncombatants plus 1d6 lantern archons plus 1d4 celestial dire lions plus 1d3 janni ringmasters[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Challenge Rating:[/td][td]13[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Treasure:[/td][td]Goods only[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Alignment:[/td][td]Always chaotic good[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Advancement:[/td][td]By character class[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Level Adjustment:[/td][td]--[/td][/tr]
[/table]

A rainbowcorn has deep sea-blue, violet, brown, or fiery gold eyes. Males sport a muave beard. They are usually draped with signs particular to their carnival and heavily decorated with jewelry. They never wear saddles.

A typical adult rainbowcorn grows to 8 feet in length, stands 5 feet high at the shoulder, and weighs 1,200 pounds. Females are slightly smaller and less garish than males.

Rainbowcorns are a specialized form of unicorn--protectors of traveling celestial carnivals. They travel with the show as it spans the planes, performing tricks of great skill for patrons and defending the festivities against any would-be attackers.

Rainbowcorns speak Common, Celestial, and Draconic.
Combat

Rainbowcorns viciously attack anyone who seeks to harm the carnival they defend. They either charge, impaling foes with their horns like horrible technicolor lances, or strike with their garrishly-colored hooves. The horn is a +3 magic weapon, though its power fades if removed from the rainbowcorn. It still makes a colorful desk ornament, though. They never retreat if any member or visitor to the carnival is in danger. If necessary, they attempt to protect allies with a well-placed wall of force.

Horn of Hues(Su)
A rainbowcorn's horn deals an additional 1d6 energy damage of a random type. Determine the type once each round. The horn glows a different, festive color with each energy type.

d6energy
1acid
2cold
3electricity
4fire
5sonic
6negative (no damage to objects, heals undead)

Rainbow Charge (Su)
Whenever a rainbowcorn attacks with her horn as part of a charge, she deals an additional 4d6 energy damage of a random type.
d100colordamage
1-20Red4d6 fire damage, Will save or blinded 1d4 rounds.
21-40Orange4d6 acid damage, Will save or nauseated 1d4 rounds.
41-60Yellow4d6 electricity damage, Will save or stunned 1 round.
61-80Blue4d6 cold damage, Will save or slowed 1d4 rounds, as the slow spell.
81-100Brass4d6 sonic damage, Will save or deafened 1d4 rounds.

Prismatic Heart (Su)
A rainbowcorn bleeds color. Reality altering color. Each time the rainbowcorn is struck in combat by a melee, non-reach weapon, the attacker must roll a Will save (DC 23) or suffer one of the following effects.
d6coloreffect
1Magentadazed for 1 round.
2Cyanlaugh uncontrollably for 1 round (as hideous laughter)
3AzureFascinated for 1 round.
4Fuchsiaconfused, as the spell, 1 round.
5Chartreuseshaken for 1 round.
6Aquamarineteleported 1d10 x 5 feet in a random direction

Spectrum Shield (Su)
Whenever a rainbowcorn deals energy damage with its horn, it and all allies within 60 ft. are immune to that type of energy for 1 round.

Spell-Like Abilities

Rainbowcorns can use detect evil at will as a free action.

Two times per day a rainbowcorn can use greater teleport to move anywhere within the bounds of its carnival. It cannot teleport beyond the carnival's boundaries (usually marked by rope and welcome signs). Unlike its lesser unicorn cousin and their forests, it can return to the carnival from outside its bounds--a useful ability if the unicorn has to defend the carnival's retreat.
At will--detect evil; 1/day--greater teleport (to anywhere within 100 ft. of the carnival only), neutralize poison (DC 21); 3/day--cure serious wounds (DC 19), wall of force. Caster level 10th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Wild Empathy (Ex)

This power works like the druidâ,¬,,¢s wild empathy class feature, except that a rainbowcorn has a +6 racial bonus on the check.

Skills

Rainbowcorns have a +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.[/spoiler]




Dude, that is awesome! But obviously designed for conflict. I revise my statement to just "Funny Fuzzy Bunnies and Pretty Pretty Princesses".

By the way, the GURPS book was Bunnies and Burrows. Near as I could tell, it still involves conflict, it's just that the conflict is Don Bluth style.

And no, that's no slight whatsoever to Don Bluth.
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[/spoiler][spoiler=Books I Own]
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GURPS:

GURPS Lite 3e

Other Systems:

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SDragon1984- the S is for Penguin
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Before you accept advice from this post, remember that the poster has 0 ranks in knowledge (the hell I'm talking about)

Hibou

#20
April 12, 2007, 01:09:45 PM
Perhaps a reason why some of us build such "dark" settings is because we might have a more sadistic side to our personalities.
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SDragon

#21
April 12, 2007, 02:20:24 PM
Quote from: IshmaylI'm not trying to justify that you need darkness to get to the light, I'm simply saying that you need darkness to fight darkness.  I don't know if that really came out how I wanted it to...Maybe that's too abstract; I've been re-reading Daniel Quinn again.

I think you're trying to say that you need darkness so that light has something to fight against.


And don't worry, I'm sure anybody that has read Mr. Quinn's work can completely understand how it can lead to being too abstract.
[spoiler=My Projects]
Xiluh
Fiendspawn
Opening The Dark SRD
Diceless Universal Game System (DUGS)
[/spoiler][spoiler=Merits I Have Earned]
divine power
last poster in the dragons den for over 24 hours award
Commandant-General of the Honor Guard in Service of Nonsensical Awards.
operating system
stealer of limetom's sanity
top of the tavern award


[/spoiler][spoiler=Books I Own]
D&D/d20:
PHB 3.5
DMG 3.5
MM 3.5
MM2
MM5
Ebberon Campaign Setting
Legends of the Samurai
Aztecs: Empire of the Dying Sun
Encyclopaedia Divine: Shamans
D20 Modern

GURPS:

GURPS Lite 3e

Other Systems:

Marvel Universe RPG
MURPG Guide to the X-Men
MURPG Guide to the Hulk and the Avengers
Battle-Scarred Veterans Go Hiking
Champions Worldwide

MISC:

Dungeon Master for Dummies
Dragon Magazine, issues #340, #341, and #343[/spoiler][spoiler=The Ninth Cabbage]  \@/
[/spoiler][spoiler=AKA]
SDragon1984
SDragon1984- the S is for Penguin
Ona'Envalya
Corn
Eggplant
Walrus
SpaceCowboy
Elfy
LizardKing
LK
Halfling Fritos
Rorschach Fritos
[/spoiler]

Before you accept advice from this post, remember that the poster has 0 ranks in knowledge (the hell I'm talking about)

RedBullBear

#22
April 12, 2007, 02:26:11 PM
I think Dark Settings can be a downer.  I'm not sure why but I don't care to play in a game where the characters have no tangible hope, optimism or chance for a 'stable' life.
Therefore if the Campaign had that glimmer of possibility, it would be one way to keep from getting 'downed.'
-Kerry

These Bob Mackie gowns are ââ,,¢Â« FABULOUS! ââ,,¢Â«

SilvercatMoonpaw

#23
April 12, 2007, 02:49:26 PM
Quote from: MadApe19Perhaps a reason why some of us build such "dark" settings is because we might have a more sadistic side to our personalities.
That makes a very scary kind of sense, but I don't think it explains the issue in its entirety.

I think RedBullBear has a point.  My confusion is that I think that even with the glimmer of hope that a setting can be weighed down with too many overt issues.  It's intimidating to read a setting thread that starts off describing how much conflict there is.
I'm a muck-levelist, I like to see things from the bottom.

"No matter where you go, you will find stupid people."

Ishmayl-Retired

#24
April 12, 2007, 03:03:14 PM
I just disagree.  One of the first important things I like to read about a world (other than beautiful flavor text) is what the conflicts in the world are.  To me, that is what sets the stage for the entire story of the world
!turtle Ishmayl, Overlord of the CBG

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For finite types, like human beings, getting the mind around the concept of infinity is tough going.  Apparently, the same is true for cows.

brainface

#25
April 12, 2007, 03:15:41 PM
QuoteI think RedBullBear has a point. My confusion is that I think that even with the glimmer of hope that a setting can be weighed down with too many overt issues. It's intimidating to read a setting thread that starts off describing how much conflict there is.

I'd be interesting in hearing what conflicts you've used or enjoyed, Silvercat.
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire

snakefing

#26
April 12, 2007, 03:19:39 PM
Quote from: brainface
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunnies_and_BurrowsBunnies and Burrows[/url], which predated GURPS by a long time, although they did publish a GURPS version, as well as a FUDGE version.

QuoteI'm really not a fan of the monolithic crawling evil. I've generally had more fun in games with corrupt officials, rampaging beasts, and untamed wilderness than ones with vampire infestations, demonic hordes, etc. I guess I just like the conflict to be more down-to-earth.

Yeah, conflict can include all kinds of politics, tribalism, ambition, petty jealousy, and things like that. You don't have to be dark to include those things. But a lot of times it seems easier to convey an overall atmosphere or something if the conflicts or attitudes can be reflected in the elements of the setting. I think that tends to slant a little in favor of darker settings.

Plus, there may be a self-selection effect going on here. Some of what impels people to create their own settings is a sense of dissatisfaction with the existing ones. That might also favor settings with some unique atmosphere or flavor, again often personified in terms of some great evil or creeping doom.

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Bill Volk

#27
April 12, 2007, 03:27:06 PM
There's nothing wrong with a little harmless schadenfreude. I can enjoy imagining my character smash face on helpless monsters in D&D just as much as I can enjoy imagining my character going crazy and dying in Call of Cthulhu. There's not much of a difference, fundamentally. Suffering entertains me, even if it's my character, so long as it's not me.

Xathan

#28
April 12, 2007, 04:36:00 PM
For me, and my settings can get rather dark, they don't depress me because they allow for the greatest acts of heroism. It's like lighting a candle in room. If the room is already lit by halogen bulbs all over the room, that little candle won't be very noticable. However, in a pitch black room, a single candle provides the most illumination. While you don't need a dark setting for heroism, I think the heroism of it shines more in a dark setting. It's easier to fight against the demons from hell when you know the Church, Kingdom, and Guild will back you. To do it alone, though, takes far more courage, IMO.
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SilvercatMoonpaw

#29
April 12, 2007, 05:37:10 PM
Quote from: Just Xathanâ,¬Â¦Ã¢,¬Â¦It's like lighting a candle in room.â,¬Â¦Ã¢,¬Â¦
See my earlier post on how idiotic I feel that is.
I'm a muck-levelist, I like to see things from the bottom.

"No matter where you go, you will find stupid people."
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