The Campaign Builder's Guild

Long story short, the game I'm running is a horror game and deals with taint. The taint is coming from the Far Realm, and a rift has been open in the area the PCs are in. The rift is causing the creation of tainted (psudonatural) creatures, and undead-like things. One of the players (the 5th player, whose actually co-DMing) is going to be possessed by an entity from Far Realm and turn on the players (becoming a half-far spawn, for those who read Lords of Madness), and he'll subdue the players after a particularly nasty fight (the character who is turning is skilled in dealing subdual damage, so there will be no question how he takes them out).

When the party wakes up, they'll find themselves in the same location they were knocked out, but in actuality they'll be on Far Realm (I'll be tonning down the planes traits at first). In reality, they caves they'll be in are the innards of some massive Far Realm creature. The original idea is that magic won't work here, only psionics. They're not actually on Far Realm, just their minds (because they've suffered enough taint to be "touched"). There is a wizard and a bard in the party, and I wanted them to end up developing psionic classes instead. That way, they'll effectively be running two separate characters as the adventure takes them back and forth between the worlds.

Oh, and the party is only 2nd level right now. They're not dealing with huge stuff. Ultimately, the goal of the adventure will be to save their friend/kill the monster their friend has become, depending on which way they choose.

Right now, I need help on how to handle the Far Realm transition/transformation. Should I just change the wizard to psion and the bard to divine mind (the auras could be similar to bardic music effects), making choices so their characters are effectively the same, or should I have them slowly lose levels and give them new choices when they level up (basically waiting for them to learn what's going on, then have them rebuild their characters with new options).

I'd like to do the first method, but I'm worried that the players might feel alienated by me changing their characters on them (even though it's only for part of the game). I know what I'm doing and what feeling I'm going for, but taking control out of a players hand (and saying "you'll play this class") might feel heavy handed.

What are your opinions? Think "Matrix" sort of; I want Far Realm to work differently than the material plane, and letting them access different abilities in the other world is what I'm going for.

I agree that it feels kind of heavy-handed. If you just switch classes on them, would you force the players to rebuild their characters for the Far Realm, or would you do it for them? It sounds harsh no matter what you choose. And how does it add to the theme of horror? Anything that happens because you're in the Far Realm had better be horrific, and any power it grants you had better taint you seven ways from Sunday.

Players being what they are, they'll like it better if you give them some degree of choice - they can stick by their old methods and forfeit power in the Far Realm, or they can adapt to a new way of thinking - with all the unsettling consequences that that entails!

QuoteI'd like to do the first method, but I'm worried that the players might feel alienated by me changing their characters on them (even though it's only for part of the game). I know what I'm doing and what feeling I'm going for, but taking control out of a players hand (and saying "you'll play this class") might feel heavy handed.

trying[/i] to summon. If they cast message, the reciever hears bizarre murmurings along with the wizard's message. Stuff like that.

Can you use a combination of both methods? Part of me doesn't have a problem with the first one you mentioned. While it is a bit heavy handed there are times in life where you have no control over what happens, just how you react to it. But I also like the let them rebuild their characters as they learn the new 'rules' of the Far Realms.

How about have their current abilities start to fade over time? As their mystical abilities fade they could discover their psionic abilities. Part of this could be that a psionic effect happens when the character disucsses or 'think's about an arcane effect.

"I could try my fireball spell..."
* a psionic fireball hits the wall *
"What the hell was that?!?!"

Bad example I know, but I think it gets the point across. They would realize regular abilites are fading and have to figure out why. Subtle hints of psioinic powers could be thrown in and then once they realize it they could rebuild their characters.

One of the things I used to do when I ran a superhero game was have the players give me a list of powers they wanted. As the players built up XP I would sometimes spend it for them on powers from their list. Thay way I could tie it into the story. An example of that is when a healer tried to heal someone of a physcial problem but the problem was completely psychosomatic. The player wanted the ability to 'reopen' old wounds on a target, so this gave me the perfect chance for that to happen.

The point of that was I see this as a chance to do something along the same vein. Convert some arcane effects to psi effects, but vary the reliablity/effectivenes so that the players become aware of what is going on.

You mentioned that they players aren't there but their minds are. The mind plays tricks on itself all the time.

I love this idea by the way. Giving each player essentially two characters to play. I may have to work that into my Eberron campaign some how.

 :2cents:

I agree with Ravenspath. I think it could work well. The key would be to make sure they understood that something was happening to them and that they could respond in some fashion to it. It's when pcs can'd do ANYTHING but walk ahead in the straight line the dm has given them that they tend to get irritated.

It seemed that a few people missunderstood me; they'll still have their regular characters in the material world. Again, the only casters are a Wizard, whose primary spells have been magic missile (concussion) and sleep (could be replaced with disable); they've been captured anyway, so it would be perfectly reasonable for them to be missing their equipment.

The only spell the bard has is cure light wounds, and his cantrips.

I could just tweek their magical abilities and describe the effects differently. My number two concern, aside from alienating the players, is getting the right feel: I don't want them to realize that they're on a different plane, only to think that the taint in the area is starting to effect them. The more I think about it, the more the level-loss thing makes more sense.

Keep the ideas coming; thanks for the help.

Quote from: XeviatIt seemed that a few people missunderstood me; they'll still have their regular characters in the material world.

I don't think I mistunderstood what you were saying, but maybe I didn't write my thoughts down well. I saw the characters physical bodies still in the regular world while thier "mental" bodies are in the Far Realms.  As each person envisions themselves this is how they will appear in the Far Realms. The only problem being that magic doesn't work per se, but only psionics do. This won't affect the fighter or thief (unless they happen to have magic items), but will have an impact on those that cast magic.

I am leaning towards agreeing with you that the level loss may be the best way for them to not realize they have been moved to the Far Realms. But I also still think that a good way to show this is by giving them psionic equivalants of the spells, even if briefly. If the mind thinks it is casting magic missle have it cast psi power 'Bolt'. It will look slightly different than MM and the player may start to realize "WTF!". Once they come to the realization they are in a mindscape then have them rework their characters.

So, a quick vote: does the level-loss thing seem like the best solution?

Bad idea. Reason: The Level Progression System Using Pie
Not 100% accurate, but very close when you're dealing with spellcasters. Which you are.

Wait, what do you mean? I'm talking about level-draining everyone in the party; the fighter, bard, wizard, and monk. When they next return to this new plane, they will get to re-select their levels, but with the psion, psychic warrior, soul knife, wilder, ardent, and divine mind replacing the bard, ranger, paladin, wizard, sorcerer, cleric, and druid.

That's different then the message I thought you were trying to get across. But I still don't know what you mean. Are you going to remove a bard level and then give him a level of Psion (the bad idea)? Or are you going to have the characters rewrite the crunchy aspects of their characters?

They're going to go to the alternate plane several times throughout the campaign. The first time, they'll have their original class levels, but they will slowly loose levels (they'll have just reached 3rd level, and will loose their levels through the mini-adventure). Then they'll die, and wake up in the real world. Next time they end up back in the alternate plane, now fully aware that it is a different plane and something is terribly wrong with their minds, they'll get to choose what they regain their levels as, and the only mandated change I will give them is that they will have Wild Talent as a bonus feat (so they will be able to select psionic feats).

A thanks to those who gave me ideas. On account of reactions from you posters and others on forcing players to change their classes, if even just in this other world, my co-DM and I decided to do things a little differently. Again, thanks. I'll be starting a new thread to discuss the different idea.