The Campaign Builder's Guild

The Elves of Alacaron
The Makamae Jungles are home to hidden stone temples, their walls covered with the images of various exotic animals. The feral pantheon of Makamae represents the various aspects of Elven Culture. When the seas still boiled from the fiery birth of Alacaron, an island rose from the depths, covered in lush jungle. The seven deities named the land Makamae (Mak-uh-may) Which in the ancient tongue they taught the elves means "Cherished Jungle" and divided the land amongst them.

Shark, fierce and brutal, chose the unforgiving sea for his domain. â,¬Å"To teach them to fear natureâ,¬,,¢s wrath, and to strive to protect it.â,¬Â

Eagle, wise and idealistic, chose the lofty sky for his domain. â,¬Å"To teach them of the cycles of life, and to strive to be better.â,¬Â

Monkey, smart and crafty, chose the dense treetops for his domain. â,¬Å"To teach them to create, and to protect them from evil.â,¬Â

Serpent, beautiful and deadly, chose the dense treetop for his domain. â,¬Å"To teach them to hunt, and to protect themselves from others.â,¬Â

Panther, sleek and nimble, took to the cool mountain for his domain. â,¬Å"To teach them valor, honor, and to keep the fires of the volcano at bay.â,¬Â

Leopard, tough and predatory, took the white plumed volcano for his domain. â,¬Å"To teach them passion, temper, and to keep the ice of the mountain at bay.â,¬Â

The six gods stood at ends against each other, each bickering over their lands, fighting and squabbling in terrible wars that would light up the night sky with white fire and rattle the trunks of the trees.

Tiger, wise and fair, smart and fierce, quick and strong stood by watching his siblings kill each other. He knew this war would tear their family apart, so he did something drastic. With a roar that pierced the night, silencing everything on the island, he tore at the ground with massive paw and ripped a hole so deep no light touched the bottom. From this well sprang the first elves, small and childlike to the gods, they were in awe of what they saw in these gods.  [note]THE JUNGLE ELVES OF ALACARON: The Jungle Elves are the primal ancestors of High Elves, they embrace their ancient roots. These elves favor skill with the spear and have a closer tie to nature then High Elves. Instead of having a favored class of Wizard they tend to be Druids. I was inspired by my trip to Hawaii to create the elves. Alacaron is all about taking what we automatically think about when we hear of Elves or Dwarves and knocking that opinion on its ear. (When I think of Elves I think of Legolas, a handsome archer who is dexterous, haughty, and noble) I took that idea and created an elf wielding a huge spear, he is wild, untamed, and  ruthless.[/note]

They bowed to the wisdom of Tiger and the six gods put their war aside and worked together (for the most part) to care for their new children.

Deities of the Elves

Shark
Ikaika
Greater Deity
Symbol: A shark with many teeth, or a sharkâ,¬,,¢s tooth on a leather string.
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Portfolio: The Ocean, strength, war, warriors, nature
Cleric Alignments: Any
Domains: Strength, War, Chaos, Water, Ocean*
Favored Weapon: â,¬Å"Okiâ,¬Â +1 Long Spear

Eagle
Aeko
Greater Deity
Symbol: An eagle with huge wings, or an eagle feather.
Alignment: Neutral Good
Portfolio: The sky, day, night, death, life, wisdom
Cleric Alignments: CG, NG, LG
Domains: Sun, Air, Death, Healing, Moon*
Favored Weapon: â,¬Å"Kekahiakaâ,¬Â +1 Longbow

Monkey
Akamai
Greater Deity
Symbol: A grinning monkey or a preserved monkey paw.
Alignment: Neutral Good
Portfolio: Knowledge, craftsmen, artists, bards, songs
Cleric Alignment: CG, NG, LG
Domains: Knowledge, Craft*, Good, Protection, Mind*
Favored Weapon: â,¬Å"Kumulaauâ,¬Â +1 Quarterstaff

Serpent
Laaumake
Greater Deity
Symbol: A twisted snake or a snakeâ,¬,,¢s fang
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Portfolio: Hunting, poison, vanity, beauty, tricksters
Cleric Alignments: CE, NE, LE
Domains: Trickery, Evil, Destruction, Luck, Vanity*
Favored Weapon: â,¬Å"Uwepaâ,¬Â +1 Whip

Panther
Poeleeke
Greater Deity
Symbol: A black cat or a tooth on a black string.
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Portfolio: Ice, valor, honor, bravery, heroes
Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG
Domains: Air, Law, Protection, Courage*, Cold*
Favored Weapon: â,¬Å"Pahikauaâ,¬Â +1 Scimitar

Leopard
Kupahu
Greater Deity
Symbol: A spotted cat or a tooth on a yellow string
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Portfolio: Fire, luck, rogues, trickery, guile
Cleric Alignments: CG, CN, CE
Domains: Fire, Luck, Chaos, Trickery, Celerity*
Favored Weapon: â,¬Å"Kilaâ,¬Â +1 Longsword

Tiger
Apanapana
Overdeity
Symbol: A huge striped cat or a thick Tigerâ,¬,,¢s claw on a beaded string
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Portfolio: Elves, magic, the universe, creation, Makamae
Cleric Alignments: Any
Domains: Law, Balance*, Magic, Animal, Elf*, Spell*
Favored Weapon:â,¬ÂLehulehuâ,¬Â +1 Spear

Intriguing.

Are the similar/complimentary portfolios of monkey and leopard intentional?

Did the Seven Gods also boil up from the sea? What is their origin? Did any gods actually die? If not perhaps changing the sentence describing Tiger's action to appear: "stood by watching his siblings battle each other" might be appropriate

Do the Six Gods all need to be greater, thus pushing Tiger to overdeity status or would making the Six intermediate/ and Tiger greater serve the same purpose? Ignore this question if the elves are the only race in the world.

If these elves have a closer connection to nature and are based on Hawaii, why the longsword and scimitar as favoured weapons for Leopard and Panther?

I assume the *'s refer to domains found outside of the PHB?

Do priests of Tiger act as intermediaries and leaders among the elves Makamae?

Where do the names of the Six Gods' weapons come from?

Why does Panther have the Air domain? Why do none of the gods have the Earth domain?

Eagle seems like a misplaced bird in the jungle unless it's based on Runescape.

How long ago do the Elves ascribed these myths to have occurred? Clearly at the beginning of time; but how long ago was that?

Finally does Alacaron have distant/suspected gods or present/proved gods?

Firstly, thank you so much for these awesome questions! Let me answer some.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsAre the similar/complimentary portfolios of monkey and leopard intentional?

I set up the pantheon originally to just have six gods, each with a balancing opponent god. Monkey offsets Serpent(they both live in the treetops), Shark offsets Eagle (they both live in a huge blue expanse), Then Jaguar offsets Panther (Jaguar represents the Volcano on one side of the jungle while Panther represents the icy mountain on the other side of the jungle) this would be my initial conflict. However, I wanted something that binds them, its not a war of good versus evil here, this is a war of ideologies. Tiger balances everyone and represents your father when you bicker with your brothers and sisters. Jaguar and Monkey were not meant to be similar, but I could see alliances forming (like Panther and Eagle because they both sit high in their thrones). This was set up, so that each deity was interesting in itself, and a player could choose to be a Priest of Shark, and role play a rivalry with the Druid who favors Eagle.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsDid the Seven Gods also boil up from the sea? What is their origin? Did any gods actually die? If not perhaps changing the sentence describing Tiger's action to appear: "stood by watching his siblings battle each other" might be appropriate

I like to think that the gods of the elves stumbled upon the land. If I were to bet money, Tiger created the land and when the gods came upon it, he allowed them to create life and fill the land with creatures. This was a plan to teach his unruly godlings some much needed responsibility. Most legends concerning the gods usually involve a lesson taught to them by Tiger. The elven gods make mistakes and are tricked just like you and me, they have flaws, all except Tiger.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsDo the Six Gods all need to be greater, thus pushing Tiger to overdeity status or would making the Six intermediate/ and Tiger greater serve the same purpose? Ignore this question if the elves are the only race in the world.

I chose greater because they all are incredibly important to the elves. In fact there is no religion except for them, Tiger is a Overdeity because he is not worshiped by mortals, he is worshiped by the gods of the pantheon. It is through him that they get their divine powers. If the gods are his children, then today's elves are his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsIf these elves have a closer connection to nature and are based on Hawaii, why the longsword and scimitar as favoured weapons for Leopard and Panther?

The longsword and scimitar represent Leopard's and Panthers sharp claws and teeth. The Elves are inspired by the Hawaiians, but they aren't carbon copies. Plus the Hawaiians were known to take shark teeth and add them to the blade of a wooden sword.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsI assume the *'s refer to domains found outside of the PHB?

The asterisks mark domains you can find in the Spell Compendium.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsDo priests of Tiger act as intermediaries and leaders among the elves Makamae?

There are no priests of Tiger, usually there are only priests of the six other gods, occasionally there will be a priest of Monkey who enjoys preaching the tales of Tiger and Monkey (Monkey is sometimes seen as Tiger's favorite because they went on the most adventures around the multiverse together). However, this cleric is still a cleric of Monkey and still gets his spells from Monkey. At a DMs discretion, a Player could choose to worship one deity (such as Panther) and Tiger at the same time. Panther grants the player spells, but if the DM wanted, the player could choose one of the Domains Tiger has to offer. That's really the only reason I added that, just in case a DM or Player wanted to use the information. I will say that in my game there are no Priests of Tiger, just fans.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsWhere do the names of the Six Gods' weapons come from?

The names of the weapons come from a small Hawaiian dictionary I picked up in the airport. They are either random words, or they stand for the item they are named after (such as "Spear" in Hawaiian) or they are Hawaiian words that I changed the spelling and pronunciation. A DM could use it as a guide for making Elvish sounding words. I figure that if it sounds Hawaiian then you're doing good.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsWhy does Panther have the Air domain? Why do none of the gods have the Earth domain?

Panther has the Air domain because of the Mountain he represents. It is one of the tallest mountains and is always coated in snow (even in the summer).

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsEagle seems like a misplaced bird in the jungle unless it's based on Runescape.

I like Eagles because they are noble, strong, and skilled hunters not afraid to kill. I really felt that fit in well with my feral hunter elves, rather then my original plan of going with Parrot. I just thought Eagle was cooler then Parrot.

Elf Cleric: "Oh Parrot, Lord of Skies, please! Send me a sign!"
Parrot: "Squawk! Hello!"
Elf Cleric: "Is that you my lord?"
Parrot: "Squawk! My Lord, My lord!"
Elf Cleric: "Man, why didn't I worship Shark?"
Parrot: "Squawk! Screw Shark, screw Shark! Squawk!"

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsHow long ago do the Elves ascribed these myths to have occurred? Clearly at the beginning of time; but how long ago was that?

An infinite time ago. To the elves (who live a long time, 300 years at least) a "long time ago" to them would seem "before known civilization" to us. I think that it would have been 65,300,000,000 years ago.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsFinally does Alacaron have distant/suspected gods or present/proved gods?

They have a little of both. The humans worship Zhuud, a present and proved god. The elven pantheon has never really presented itself to the elves, a lot like Jesus to us. Except I guess you could say the Elves have proof every time they cast Cure Light Wounds.

Hello, I am the official anti-elf member, so I feel it my duty to insert my opinions. Please feel free to disregard.

[spoiler <<Insert Ideas Here>>] [note]This is a near copy-paste from a PM, so it might be off in places.[/note]
To understand my position on elves, you need to first understand my philosophies on world building. To me, world building is a possible artistic medium. Art is defined not by any specific channel, but rather a means of communicating ideas through metaphor or symbolism.

Words are a form of symbols that help convey ideas. With most art, the ideas presented by the symbols of words are woven together to form greater symbols which in turn have conceptual ideas behind them.

I'll back off from the wacko philosophy and give an example. In the lord of the rings, we have the ring of power. "The ring" is called such because it is a piece of finger jewelry and we understand (generally) what a "ring" is. However, the ring, along with other story elements forms the concept of technology through symbolism, which in turn is used to create the greater idea of technology corrupts.

Back to elves. What is an "elf"? Is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_elf an elf? Is this: http://www.kelloggs.com/keebler/images/faq-elf.jpg ? Whatabout this: http://www.fenice.info/i/spock.jpg ?

At this point, the word "elf" has been used in so many instances that there is no set meaning for it.

At this point I'll say that I don't dislike elves, despite what the boards might say. ;) But this should make you wonder "What group of 'elves' is he referring to?" In reality I'm talking about Tolkienesque elves and in my mind, not many others come close to being nearly as awesome. This is why it irks me when I see the word "elf" being used by most other people. I think "That's not an elf! That's a human with pointy ears." Of course, there's no true meaning for the word elf, and everyone is well within their rights to go and show what they think an elf is. That doesn't change the fact that by adding more definitions to the word it becomes increasingly more vague.

Now, why shouldn't you use elves in a world? The answer is that because of the confusion around the definition of the word elf, it is quite useless in writing. Remember that the purpose of words is to convey ideas. What idea, then, does the word "elf" create? In reality this will differ a LOT between people. And so where the ring of power is fairly easy to understand with just the words "the ring," calling something an "elf" will often require you to proceed to define the word in order for it to have set meaning.

Now, if you're defining the word, why not just use a new word in the first place? This prevents the initial confusion of "what is an elf" and it creates a unique flavor for your world that reduces plagiarism. I think the best example of this is the vulcans from Star Trek. Never once did Gene Roddenberry refer to them as elves, and yet they could clearly have been called such. I think by naming them vulcans, he avoided a lot of confusion and also created a more organic race.

So this is my suggestion to you. Unless you have a world which can provide a clear idea of what an elf is before it comes up or that could benefit from the use of a race of "elves," don't use the word. Call them "Tolk'ja" or "Zeinai" instead.

[spoiler <<Insert FAQ Here>>]Q: Aren't the Tolkienesque elves just humans with pointy ears? What makes them different?
A:  :dots:

Q: I was also assuming that anyone familiar with D&D that heard the word elf would automatically think tall, slender, possibly aloof, and pointy ears, which is roughly how they are presented in D&D.

A: Okay, so yes, you can use the word elf to describe a slim character with pointy ears (D&D elves are not tall, and many elves are not aloof) as these are near-universal characteristics of elves. However, keep in mind that you'll need to clarify nearly every other characteristic to paint a complete image. If you are building a world for D&D, you're probably best using the name "elf." However, I'm going to come out and say that I feel creating a setting for D&D is a bit like writing a fan-fiction novel. You can interpret that however you like. :)

Q: If I change the name of the elves but keep some of their D&D flavor, it brings up the question why bother to change the name at all, except to get around any preformed ideas about the race? And if I rename elves then should I change the name of all the other races for the same reason?

A: I personally, hate working from a preconceived base of ideas. That is, I don't like expecting the reader to know stuff. Thus, if I made dwarves a part off my setting, I'd describe their traits anyway. If you do this, it helps to come up with your own name for three reasons:
1) If someone sees "dwarf" they might skip over important details thinking that they know it all.
2) It creates a unique feel for the world to call dwarves "ÃÅ"ndüin" even if they're just dwarves.
3) It gives a lot more room to make things unique. If you want all dwarves to have glowing eyes, for instance, it becomes much easier to understand if they aren't "dwarves."
("Silly Player, dwarves don't have glowing eyes, ündüin do.")

And lastly, there's nothing wrong with having a name like "elf" or "dwarf" be the word humans use to refer to such a race. This keeps that sense of "this is an elf" while giving the points listed above.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler <<Insert ConSet Racial Philosophy Here>>][note Disclaimer]ConSet is not for everyone. Consult your doctor before use. If you have any questions about ConSet, call 1-800-555-ETHO or just post in this thread.[/note] Creating Unique and Vibrant Races

When creating any race, you must first consider "What does this race mean to the setting?" and "What impact will this race have on the setting?" Any race will change your world, even if it's the most obscure and hidden race out there. To illustrate, picture a world that is similar to Victorian age Spain and heavy with political intrigues. The world is entirely human, except you include a note that somewhere out there are beast-men who can shapeshift and roam the wilds of some obscure country. The world just jumped up one notch of the fantasy slider, even if the race never comes into play.

Remember that because each race changes a world, no race should ever be added on whim. Always make sure that adding this race will change the world the way you want.

Each race in a world is something I like to call a campaign element. Each element is a symbol and together they weave a greater picture that is the setting. Each race has a place and purpose.

Each race is composed of the following:
* A physical bias
* A mental bias
* One or more cultures

Each culture is composed of:
* A mental trend
* One or more languages
* And of course, many specific details

Each language has one name for a race.

To best illustrate this, I'll build a fantastic race on the spot.
Physical Bias: This race is powerful in body, and large. They can see in the dark and are thus nocturnal. They have claws and... wings like a crow (why not?) They are hairy and have black skin, hair and feathers. Their faces are feral and brutish, a bit like orcs. In all they stand 8 feet tall.

(A bias is the general shape for the race. There can be deviations, but most individuals fall very near the bias.)

Mental Bias: This race is a race of the night, they are quick thinkers, able to act with exploding speed in combat. They have keen senses, and are always on the alert. Most have no tolerance of those who they perceive as threats, and they will naturally go on the offensive when they see such individuals. Being pack oriented, they see family as the pack and they understand the values of friendship.

Culture: Because of their feral temperament, this race has been limited to the vast pine woods of Sunblight and only has one culture.

Mental trend: The tribes of Sunblight are nocturnal and rely on natural weapons in day-to-day affairs and so they have never learned tool use. They are almost like cave-men, working together to bring down game and whatever threats they encounter as a tribe. The pelts of deer and elk are used as clothing, so the tribes have learned knots. Women and children stay away from open battle, but actively participate in hunting.

(A trend is something even weaker than a bias. It is how an individual in the culture can generally be expected to act and what they can generally be expected to know.)

This race has it's own feral language which, while simple, is all that is needed for coordinating hunts. In this language, the race is called the ÃÅ"kas. By the human frontier towns bordering on the Sunblight woods, the beasts are called Dark-ones.

So there we go, I just outlined a race of bear-raven-wolf-caveman savages who are likely to make excellent antagonists if the wild game in Sunblight ever becomes too scarce and the tribes venture elsewhere for food. It's important to note that while I did make a race, I have not presented it yet. All of the above data is in the form of notes to myself. If I were to publish this race (that is, create an accurate written depiction to communicate), I would need to produce a more concise version of the race and culture.

Now, what if I wanted to create a race to fit a niche or to represent a preconceived idea? Like if I wanted to make elves. The trick is to realize that an â,¬Å"elfâ,¬Â is a collection of ideas. Figure out which ideas you want, and separate them from the vast concept of â,¬Å"elf.â,¬Â For example, in my world of Phaedoras I wanted to have elves. But when I say â,¬Å"elvesâ,¬Â what I really wanted was a race that had all the traits I thought were cool about elves. In this case, I think wisdom, peace and gentle understanding of the earth were the desired traits, so I threw out everything else. The result was a race of pacifistic beings who had angelic wisdom and grace but absolutely not ability in combat and were thus being slaughtered by more short-sighted, brutal races. These themes of the failing grace, and of perfect beauty and harmony rang very true to my elvish sensibilities, and yet as I gave them a different name they stopped being elves altogether and became something similar, yet unique.[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsEagle seems like a misplaced bird in the jungle unless it's based on Runescape.

Nope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Eagle

Certainly. Let me argue some. :P

* If the gods are often seen as foolish compared to Tiger why do the elves venerate them? Hellens venerated the Olympains because they powerful, is there a similar reason here? And does anything prevent a commoner or priest from worshipping Tiger, which seems rather logical? You say that no one does...but why?

*The ranking of deities does not depend on importance but rather power. Again, have the Six Gods accomplished anything impossible for intermediate dieties? Has Tiger gone beyond the bounds of regular gods completly? It doesn't seem that Tiger is as detached or powerful as overgods in most D&D. Especially considering the rule over/ are worshipped only by one island of elves...their rankings seem unwarranted.

*Is metal is readily available and the forge a common tool among the Makamae?

*Side note: sharks teeth attached to wood doesn't seem especially dangerous or plausible to me. Could you reference this?

*I don't see the innate connection between a high mountain to Air. Maybe Heaven or Glory or Cold...but Air? There practically isn't any Air up there.

*"65,300,000,000"! HOLY CRAP! That's 51,600,000,000 years older than our universe. Why? Tell me the elven calendar has years = to RL weeks or something.

*So it's a faith based matter, then.

*As an aside, the name Raelifin, always sounded Elvish to me.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The Stairs* If the gods are often seen as foolish compared to Tiger why do the elves venerate them? Hellens venerated the Olympains because they powerful, is there a similar reason here? And does anything prevent a commoner or priest from worshipping Tiger, which seems rather logical? You say that no one does...but why?

The main argument for a mortal (commoner or otherwise) against worshiping Tiger is the fundamental belief that Tiger is too worthy. It has similar connotation to worshiping the universe. Why would you do that? Why would the Elves worship Tiger? As a humans we like the idea of worshiping the most powerful. But to the elves, Tiger represents something else. If I were to go deeper with this, I would probably say that the Drow elves worshiped Tiger and were cast down for their heresy. How dare they declare themselves worthy of his blessings!

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The Stairs*The ranking of deities does not depend on importance but rather power. Again, have the Six Gods accomplished anything impossible for intermediate dieties? Has Tiger gone beyond the bounds of regular gods completly? It doesn't seem that Tiger is as detached or powerful as overgods in most D&D. Especially considering the rule over/ are worshipped only by one island of elves...their rankings seem unwarranted.

A deity's power is whatever the worshiper says it is isn't it? I see no reason not to make Tiger a greater god and the rest intermediate gods. However, in my game, It would be impossible to kill these gods. They are venerated by so many worshipers that to do so would be impossible. You could never truly extinguish them, so to accent this point I made them Greater gods and him an over god, to set the epic scale. This game is designed to promote epic play, but I didn't want them killing these gods (there are so few of them in this area) for power.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The Stairs*Is metal is readily available and the forge a common tool among the Makamae?

I say that the elves that live by the Volcano are skilled at the forge, plus elves that venerate Monkey would be taught crafts and other skills. Metal is as abundant as anywhere else, it isn't a barren jungle.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The Stairs*Side note: sharks teeth attached to wood doesn't seem especially dangerous or plausible to me. Could you reference this?

Go here, it is very plausible, have you ever been hit with a shark tooth sword? it's like a freaking chainsaw and it hurts like the dickens. I still have scars.  Shark tooth weapons

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The Stairs*I don't see the innate connection between a high mountain to Air. Maybe Heaven or Glory or Cold...but Air? There practically isn't any Air up there.

Well, there are clouds around mountain tops, plus its up in the air. You know, at the top. If anything, to a primitive society who cannot fly, the Mountain top is the physical representation of the heavens and the sky. The point where the earth reaches up to touch the sky.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The Stairs*"65,300,000,000"! HOLY CRAP! That's 51,600,000,000 years older than our universe. Why? Tell me the elven calendar has years = to RL weeks or something.

No, elves don't have calendars. They don't really understand the theories behind seasons and years. They live in a climate where it is almost always 79 degrees year round. The idea of changing seasons is very foreign and is really only understood by those who left the island.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The Stairs*So it's a faith based matter, then.

Um yes?

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The Stairs*As an aside, the name Raelifin, always sounded Elvish to me.

See, this goes with taking that preconceived notion and tossing it out. Raelifin sounds perfectly Elven and would fit perfectly as a character name in Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Lord of the Rings, or even Eberron. But if I had a player who could only come up with Raelfin as a name, I would suggest Ku, Namaraefa, Oakka, or Onomea. those are nice random Hawaiian sounding names.  


VOICE OF MOD: Holy crap, you effed up the layout pretty bad with that post. The URL screwed up the formatting, and I couldn't edit the page from this screen. Please mind your tags, I had to sort through post numbers to fix the page.

I'm a Elf kinda guy so I like the idea alot especially the panther god.

* I like your explination for why Tiger isn't worshipped. It shows that these elves aren't humans in funny suits, psychologically speaking.

*No, I'd say a deities power may be swelled by worshippers but not determined by what they think or say.

*I am happy to hear of an Epic-ready world. If you want suitable gods, that that even powerful Epic mortals can't kill. Look to Dicefreaks (ask limetom or google or me for more info).

*Ah! Sharkwood. Look painful and exsits. Go you!

*They don't have arcane casters to fly them? I suppouse I can see the connection between mountain tops and air...I just don't personaly like it. What if say, panther dwelt upon a cloud?

*Do elves measure time at all? Are you still settled on 65,300,000,000?

*My last star was a jab at Raelifin, not at Hawaiin sounding elf names.

*Still no Earth domain?

Actually, Raelifin was the name of my first character.
He was an elf. ^_^

Hypocrisy ftw.

wow. So I didnt understand your argument. Do you hate my idea because it destroys everything elves stand for or do you dislike elves?

He's totally going to pull a both and neither on you.

Quote from: Raskolnikov On The StairsHe's totally going to pull a both and neither on you.

:-/ You know me too well.


My argument is this. You create elves to stand against elven stereotype. But in standing against stereotype, you lose the sense of being elven.
If I make orcs that are vegetarians, they cease to embody the idea of orcs.
Our experiences provide us with insight into what a word means. Using the word elf to describe something that is not an elf (and at this point, there is no single idea of what an elf is) is only useful if you want to leverage on preconceived ideas for the race. (Dominic Deegan, for example, discusses prejudice with this.)

Thus, I urge you to go above and beyond and develop a new name for your race, giving it a distinct form in our language.

(And whether you stand by the elven word, or distinguish your race from the "blob," I don't hate your idea. I'm a big fan of island/primitive cultures myself.)

Rael, I was wondering why you hadn't been around as much lately.  Should have known you could be pulled out of hibernation with a good elf campaign ;)

Seriously, though:

Quote from: RaelifinMy argument is this. You create elves to stand against elven stereotype. But in standing against stereotype, you lose the sense of being elven.
If I make orcs that are vegetarians, they cease to embody the idea of orcs.
Our experiences provide us with insight into what a word means. Using the word elf to describe something that is not an elf (and at this point, there is no single idea of what an elf is) is only useful if you want to leverage on preconceived ideas for the race. (Dominic Deegan, for example, discusses prejudice with this.)

Let me introduce an alternative reason for using classic names for species besides meeting stereotypes (or fighting them for the sake of seeming creative, which I mostly agree with you on).

I'll speak from Kishar.  I use the word "elf" because it is the common modern rendition of the classic Norse "alfar" (I term I use only in my Norse country).  For a setting like Kishar where all the creatures are supposed to be drawn from mythology, sure I could make up a new name for elves since they're based on mythological Norse elves + Celtic daoine sidhe not D&D elves, but it would defeat the purpose of using them in the first place.  Despite this, I fully realize my elves do not fit the D&D stereotype, or even exactly match those of Tolkien.

-2cp

Great example! By using the world elf, you are giving the wrong idea to many readers, especially considering the number of d20 readers you're likely to have.

While the term elf may be a great way to reference and include mythological tales, it is likely to confuse on first sight, and so I'd recommend you use the term Sidhe, Alfar, Fey or something new to refer to the race, and have elf be a sub-name.

I, of course, am a bit fanatic on the topic, and I really don't see it as a major problem.