The Campaign Builder's Guild

If that is how you view them that is how they are going to look.

What is the difference between a human and a minotaur? Since all the humanoid races are just different humans, we don't need magical creatures. They are all animals with a few abilities. Since we don't need aren't using magical creatures, then Totems are mundane creatures. That'll help narrow down what people can choose from for their regions. So we can have a setting of all humans and mundane animals. That would make magic even more overpowered that it already is, so we can get rid of magic. A weapon can kill a regular animal easy enough, since it won't have any special abilities.

I can make overgeneralizations as well :P They are all humanoid, thus would be similar. Would Star Trek or Star Wars be as interesting if it had been only humans? Yoda is just a small green human that lives a long time. The only reason humans are in settings (movie, book, RPG) is so that the audience has a baseline for comparison.

I'm not only thinking of the flavor, but also the crunch. Orcs are naturally stronger than humans, gnomes have a natural link to illusions, and sporlicks have a natural talent to control wind.

Not exactly. What I mean is, if they're all just really narrowly stereotyped humans (i.e. elves are humans that are ALL hippies) with no separate worldview at all... they get really boring, really fast for me. If we could make these 'alien' species more, well, ALIEN, I'd be all for it.

I can help to make the generally "human except x" mindsets more alien. Very much moreso.

Gnomes being less like typical humans and more like... well... your typical OCD serial killer. Minus the violence but still obsessive and creepy. Elves being sheltered as all hell (the only reason something that frail would have such a long lifespan barring necromancy, which Ebberon already does) and because of this sheltering and all the magic aptitude, would have a more or less completely out there worldview. Halflings, if we use them, could pay homage to Belkar by being violent. Mind you its been done in Eberron, in the Pirates thing, in my old setting, in Dark Sun (I think), in addition to Oots, but it is a wildly not-human outlook all the same. Dwarves are harder to make non-human, but we could take a belief in destiny and duty and whay have you to a logical, if fatalistic extreme. Orcs are already seen as excusably not-human until they become PCs, but are no different from any other mook in the long run and are therefore more challenging.

Just thoughts, really. Worth considering, though.

Again you are overgeneralizing.

Ok elves are hippies...


This is from the OGL/SRD (which is what Cebegia is being built on).

Quote from: SRD* +2 Dexterity, â,¬'2 Constitution.
    * Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
    * Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
    * Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
    * Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
    * Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
    * +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
    * Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
    * Favored Class: Wizard. A multiclass elf â,¬,,¢s wizard class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

like beejazz says above and other people have said in this thread we don't have to use the stereotypes. One culture of elves can be warmongers, while another is a clan of stoneworkers.

The only thing I don't like about the races is when they have weapon profs. All Weapon Profs. should be switched with Weapon Familiarity. (IMHO) Also I don't like bonuses to some skills, such as Appraise, Craft, Profession, Perform, etc... because those are more of a flavor thing than a physical trait.

What I meant was that by the book, they are hippies. Which is why I dislike having other races, because we tend to stick to the stereotypes at least somewhat. Beejazz's example, however, is awesome.

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

It is basically what others have said earlier in the thread. Only thing is that if you do a global halflings are homicidal maniacs, that is just another stereotype. It also limits what a person can do with their region if they have to make halflings as homicidal maniacs.

I suggest that we just pick what races are availible and when people use them in their regions they can create their own personalities and such for the races they want to use.

My suggestion, and opinion at this point, is that we all work on a human-majority world.  If another race is needed, it becomes so much easier to make it region-specific, with it's own culture.  So what if elves are in every nation in the world?  If every nation gives them a different culture and look and ideology, there aren't enough similarities to merit them bearing the same name. [Insert Raelifin's elf rant here]

So, summary... All-human world.  Each builder has control of crafting his own minority races within his/her region.

I'll admit that the halflings bit is that, in addition to having been done before. But I think at some point we have to decide whether non-humans vary significantly from humans (which might lead to stereotypes) or whether they should vary within the race, and be fairly reasonable (which runs the risk of blandness).

There are ways to combine the two. To give one example (from the elves idea), elves are "aloof" not because of a massive superiority complex, but from their isolation and xenophobia, and the general otherworldly focus of their schools of thought. An elf taken out of this context by slavers becomes something else entirely, namely terrified. Another elf sent on a diplomatic mission would alternately be confused or amused by the strangeness of things... namely the variety, materialism, and the general pace of things. A third elf born in human lands might be generally human in mindset, if a bit of a daydreamer.

Defining what is typical is really just a way to tie in a character's backstory with their personality.

Quote from: Rose Of MontagueSo, summary... All-human world.  Each builder has control of crafting his own minority races within his/her region.

Not really possible. The Empire is currently trying to conquer the world. Even if they started as all human, the have been diluted by the lands that they have conquered, so the are no longer all human.

I agree with the bolded text.

Why do humans always have to be the aggressors? Why couldn't it be an Empire created by Gnomes? (I picked gnomes on purpose because so many people don't like them, but the point is the same. Why does it have to be humans?)

Quote from: beejazzI'll admit that the halflings bit is that, in addition to having been done before. But I think at some point we have to decide whether non-humans vary significantly from humans (which might lead to stereotypes) or whether they should vary within the race, and be fairly reasonable (which runs the risk of blandness).

There are ways to combine the two. To give one example (from the elves idea), elves are "aloof" not because of a massive superiority complex, but from their isolation and xenophobia, and the general otherworldly focus of their schools of thought. An elf taken out of this context by slavers becomes something else entirely, namely terrified. Another elf sent on a diplomatic mission would alternately be confused or amused by the strangeness of things... namely the variety, materialism, and the general pace of things. A third elf born in human lands might be generally human in mindset, if a bit of a daydreamer.

Defining what is typical is really just a way to tie in a character's backstory with their personality.

Why would two elves that have grown up in two different civilizations both be xenophobic or aloof? One may be xenophbic, the other could also be from a clan that is worldly. They may spend the a part of their life traveling the world learning of other cultures before returning home to tell the stories of their travels.

Are humans on Earth all the same? Or do they have similar phsyical traits, and varying personalties?

Why are humans the only ones allowed to have this in fantasy settings? Why are humans the only ones allowed to be diverse?

See, as above, I pointed out that it is only a starting point that individuals will contrast against on the basis of their individual backstories. Like I said above, elves that leave their homeland are by default less xenophobic. And elves not raised to be aren't at all... while presumably anything magical in nature will retain a bit of the alien (the daydreamer bit)

So yeah, of course they have varying personalities... but largely on the basis of circumstance. The same would generally apply to humans (a human from some quiet backwater village being suddenly tossed into some metropolis is likely to be overwhelmed... he isn't doomed to be what he would have been had he grown up at "home", but it's always there, and everything contrasts against his origins).

And if elves have more than one culture with more than one set of attitudes, elves from that second culture will react differently.

It's a case by case thing, but I see no need to be intentionally vague because of the potential for variation.

Ok I see what you are saying now. That seems fine.

I'm very fond of Rose of Montague's idea of giving region creators explicit power over the races in their region. I'd go so far as not saying any new races that are created should be a minority, one could also create a region where a non-human race is dominant.

However, as Poseidon pointed out, any non-humans that were in the areas that are currently under Imperial control would have diminished the all-human nature of the Empire.

So I suggest we accept the part where "each builder has control of crafting his own minority races within his/her region", but continue discussion on the racial makeup of the Empire. All core races? Human only? Humans mixed with some minority homebrew races?

Túrin

Quote from: TúrinContinue discussion on the racial makeup of the Empire.

1) All core races?
2) Human only?
3) Humans mixed with some minority (core and) homebrew races?

Túrin

Based off what people here have said. I don't think the first one is going to work. Too many want only humans for number one to work. Number two only works in an all human setting, I pointed out the reasons above. I don't support an all human setting (not saying that I won't participate if that is how the vote goes, I just don't like the idea). Number three is the best compromise.

Those that want all human can make regions that have nothing but humans, while those that don't can make regions with other races. This would make Humans the majority and the other races a minority. If a race (*coughgnomescough*) doesn't make it into any of the regions then they may be in the world, but they haven't made it to the continent we are working on.

As what races are in the Empire. I say number three is the best. What ever races are mixed in with the humans are little more than slaves(with a chance to become citizens).

Quote from: PoseidonWhy do humans always have to be the aggressors? Why couldn't it be an Empire created by Gnomes? (I picked gnomes on purpose because so many people don't like them, but the point is the same. Why does it have to be humans?)

Actually, I'm not too fond of the humans only approach. Not only that, but my thoughts on the Empire were quite close to what you suggested. I was thinking of having the Empire being run mostly by dwarves and gnomes, then having a small smattering of humans in power. The city-states would be similar, but with a different mix of the three races. I think the "Gnome-man Bates" approach would fit wonderfully here.

The Wild would have orcs, elves, and a small smattering of humans, suggesting some sort of connection between the three, allowing room for a decent explaination for why there aren't any Half Gnomes, or Half Dwarves.


I think I like the "frail hermit" approach to elves. Assuming we have them in the wild, this could easily be explained by having them live almost exclusively in the treetops, a la Wookies. Having a better view of the Rings, they could understandably worship the Ring Totems, which would explain their natural magic resistance.

I'd like to see humans as having been, historically, a Wild race, but due to a religious/philosophical/political/etc debate, split to form the Empire. This would make humans just as common, globally, as just about any other race, but much more spread out.