Discussion: Technology and Magic levels

Wensleydale · June 19, 2007, 11:15:10 AM

Low magic, low tech. However, there are some amazingly innovative feats of technology (such as the huge ship, great works of architecture etc) which are still within the realms of low tech, but moving towards middling.

Túrin · June 19, 2007, 11:53:21 AM

Quote from: WensleydaleLow magic, low tech. However, there are some amazingly innovative feats of technology (such as the huge ship, great works of architecture etc) which are still within the realms of low tech, but moving towards middling.

QFT. Just look at what the old Egyptians did with their pyramids and all.

And the fact that they were created with low technology makes these things even more amazing than they otherwise would have been.

MittenNinja · June 19, 2007, 12:03:34 PM

Quote from: Túrin
Quote from: WensleydaleLow magic, low tech. However, there are some amazingly innovative feats of technology (such as the huge ship, great works of architecture etc) which are still within the realms of low tech, but moving towards middling.
QFT. Just look at what the old Egyptians did with their pyramids and all.

And the fact that they were created with low technology makes these things even more amazing than they otherwise would have been.

I second (or in this case third) the low/low with some near mid applications approach.

Poseptune · June 19, 2007, 01:05:51 PM

Quote from: TúrinQFT. Just look at what the old Egyptians did with their pyramids and all.

But they had aliens to help them

LordVreeg · June 19, 2007, 01:07:09 PM

Ah. Been doing real work. Back now. Good discussion here.

I have already thrown in witrh the low/low with a bit of mid thrown in for spice and balance.

Someone brilliant mentioned pyramids. Aside from the wonderful example it gives us of low tech achievemnts, it brings to the fore something that is also cool.

Is it feasible and aceptable to all to have certain higher magics and higher tech lost after the old Pre-Empire fell (Pre-Empire Tech has such a nice ring to it)..so we can have some pyramid-esqyq monuments dotting the landscape...and some readymade cool adventures, and an excuse for the army of Nib the Inoccuous showing up on a battle with weapon X from an 'Old Place'.

Not to mention the inevitable 'wasteland territory' created by a few too many bad summoning experiments from drunken Pre-Empire mages.

Back to work.

Stargate525 · June 19, 2007, 01:09:52 PM

aye, and some rather impressive mechanics as well.

To be blunt, a ship the size we were talking about would need at least 17-18th century shipbuilding technology to make it even feasible. That or some seriously unique materials or methods.

I guess I'm for middle/low, as low magic settings require some serious retooling to make sure PC characters can't quickly rule the world.

Poseptune · June 19, 2007, 01:35:13 PM

A few druids (slaves from other regions) having Wood Shape spell would allow them to make things with less technology, and it is only a second level spell so high level druids or magic users are not needed. A ship that big would probably taken decades to build. (I still like a ship about 250 ft long not 1000 ft)

A few permanent ironwood spells and their ships would be stronger than other nations. (I know the permancy doesn't list ironwood as one of the spells, but maybe the Empire found a way to make it work.)

Xathan · June 19, 2007, 01:54:10 PM

Okay, now that I've gotten over my super high magic buzz (since that really doesn't jive with everything else in CeBeGia, much as I want it too.) I'm going to go with low tech, middle magic. I like the idea of enslaved druids being used to help build the Death Star...er, the empires big ship.

Also, to be fair, low tech and middle magic are what the DnD rules are best designed to support, so they make the most sense for a Core World like CeBeGia.

Stargate525 · June 19, 2007, 06:02:33 PM

Quote from: PoseidonA few druids (slaves from other regions) having Wood Shape spell would allow them to make things with less technology, and it is only a second level spell so high level druids or magic users are not needed. A ship that big would probably taken decades to build. (I still like a ship about 250 ft long not 1000 ft)

The problem with even that is that once you've finished the ship, parts of it have already been aging for ten years. That's not a problem for stone and such, but wood...

Although you're right, druids would help it out quite a bit... I just had an idea, but it doesn't belong here. To the empire thread!

Poseptune · June 19, 2007, 09:09:44 PM

Quote from: Stargate525The problem with even that is that once you've finished the ship, parts of it have already been aging for ten years. That's not a problem for stone and such, but wood...

So you agree it should be far less than 1000 ft long ship. :P Ironwood makes wood like steel, thus aging isn't as bad as if it were wood.

It looks like most people are looking to low tech level with a few outstanding feats of construction. (pyramids, large ship, etc...). The magic level is looking to be low to mid level.

Does that sound about right?

How much has the Empire advanced since the old Empire? (not very much because of the reconstruction?)
Do we want the Empire to have a slightly lesser, same or greater tech level than the rest of the world?
Same questions with magic.

Ravenspath brought up guns.
Do we want guns/gunpowder? Very rare? One shot and useless? Not at all?

Anything else I missed?

Ravenspath · June 19, 2007, 09:20:15 PM

Quote from: PoseidonRavenspath brought up guns.
Do we want guns/gunpowder? Very rare? One shot and useless? Not at all?

Anything else I missed?

Hey! Don't blame guns on me! :D I brought them up as I am sure that someone would. I'm not a big fan of guns per se in fantasy settings. Now if we had magical versions that were very rare I think that would be kind of cool. Anyone ever read the Guardians of the Flame series where they invented guns powered by magical superheated steam?

Since it seems we are going low magic (which I am fine with) I think the amount of 'tech' that would be created would be low. But there could be some. I once knew a player who had created land minds with 'Heat Metal', water, scraps of metal, and 'Mud to Stone'. The few extraordinary magic creations. This could vary by region and could even be a motivation for the Empire to have spies around in farther Regions then they are currently invading.

LordVreeg · June 19, 2007, 09:39:15 PM

Does that sound about right?

How much has the Empire advanced since the old Empire? (not very much because of the reconstruction?)
Do we want the Empire to have a slightly lesser, same or greater tech level than the rest of the world?
Same questions with magic.

Well, speaking stricly on a personal basis...yes, it sounds really, really right.

I would say that the new Empire has about the same tech, as the old EMpire (and behind Pre-Empire).
I would not place the Empire on a level playing field with the areas around it. I cannot judge on the rest of the world, but in the Empire and it's environs, the Empire, depite the fall and reconstruction, probably has a higher tech than the areas surrounding. But not up to Gunpowder. Better architecture, maybe better hygine (better sewer systems).
Totemic areas probably far better in nature magics/summonning magic, which should even things out a bit. Again, just an idea.

Poseptune · June 19, 2007, 10:31:49 PM

Quote from: LordVreegWell, speaking stricly on a personal basis...yes, it sounds really, really right.

I would say that the new Empire has about the same tech, as the old EMpire (and behind Pre-Empire).
I would not place the Empire on a level playing field with the areas around it. I cannot judge on the rest of the world, but in the Empire and it's environs, the Empire, depite the fall and reconstruction, probably has a higher tech than the areas surrounding. But not up to Gunpowder. Better architecture, maybe better hygine (better sewer systems).
Totemic areas probably far better in nature magics/summonning magic, which should even things out a bit. Again, just an idea.

That's about what I was thinking. :)

Stargate525 · June 20, 2007, 12:55:48 AM

It's interesting. I think we might want to separate our technology category; what would we call a setting with Renaissance architecture, but no gunpower or steam?

Xeviat · June 20, 2007, 06:34:04 AM

If my opinion matters around these parts, I'd like to see things be low/low as a whole, but have the empire have some mid tech, and have the city states have some mid magic.

As for guns, here's how I've always done them: They're the martial equivalents of crossbows, doing the same damage and having the same loading time (pistol is light crossbow, rifle is heavy crossbow), but having an increased threat range (18-20 vs. 19-20). Don't worry about armor penetration or anything like that, cause armor can still deflect old bullets (and I think curved metal can still deflect modern bullets to some extent).

I agree that tech is going to be developed if magic is rarer. If you go off the DMG town generation, you'll see how few casters there are compared to commoners, so magic is rare in 3.5 by default anyway. Sure, there are magic items, but most people can't afford them anyway.

But, it might be fun to push the limits a little, and have floating castles and public transportation and common priests and magi.

The Campaign Builder's Guild

News:

Discussion: Technology and Magic levels

Wensleydale

Túrin

MittenNinja

Poseptune

LordVreeg

Stargate525

Poseptune

Xathan

Stargate525

Poseptune

Ravenspath

LordVreeg

Poseptune

Stargate525

Xeviat