The Campaign Builder's Guild

For awhile now I have been trying to find a d20 system to use in my two homebrew settings. I have looked at Perfect 20, True 20, F20, 'buy the numbers', all three incarnations of D&D and nothing I have found so far seems to fit just right. I like certain aspects of each system but none of them as a whole. So I am really left two options, use a system that doesn't really mesh with my setting, or create a system of my own. As you guessed, I have decided to create my own system. So I have come to ask for help in my endeavor.

This is the first incarnation of the system, which really means that I am taking the elements that I like from each and trying to mash them together into a working system. I am hoping that with your help, I can begin moving away from this random collection of ideas and turn it into something more unique.

When looking at this system keep this in mind
Nothing is set in stone
What works?
What doesn't work?
Is there any wonkeyness?
What can be done to make it better?

File: 1183846427_369_FT0_cbg_system_post.pdf

I like your system of points, but am a little confused about class archetypes. At  first level, how does a player with a rogue differentiate himself from a fighter if they have little xp to buy abilities etc?

I also like how your races determine ability scores, but they seem to have a very wide range of scores for base races (4/12 for elf?) How exactly do the modifiers work?

Keep up the good work!

Quote from: So-KeherI like your system of points, but am a little confused about class archetypes. At  first level, how does a player with a rogue differentiate himself from a fighter if they have little xp to buy abilities etc?

I also like how your races determine ability scores, but they seem to have a very wide range of scores for base races (4/12 for elf?) How exactly do the modifiers work?

Keep up the good work!

Well there are no class archetypes in this system, I am modeling it in a way that a person can do just about anything as long as they have the XP to learn it.
as for ability scores the modifiers work just as they do in D&D, so all humans start out with a -1 for all modifiers. The way I have set up the base scores is two fold; the first is that all racial scores total 48 points. This gives a balance so no one base race is stronger then any other. Secondly the way I distributed the stats is how I feel the races should be set up. Dwarves, while being smaller, are still physically stronger then humans. While elves are weaker then humans but make up for it mentally.

Very nice so far. I'll be following this.

here is a rough idea of my systems fire magic, tell me what you think of it.
 [spoiler]Fire I
XP to learn: 500
Requirements: none
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 15 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell point cost: 1

A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage. Flammable materials, such as cloth, paper, parchment, and thin wood burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.

Augment: for every 2 additional spell points you spend on this spell increase the damage by 1d4.  
Augment: by spending 5 spell points the player may change the shape from a cone to a 15 ft line.

Fire II
XP to learn: 1,000
Requirements: Fire I, II
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Effect: Burst of fire extending 10 ft. from you
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell point cost: 1

This spell causes a powerful explosion of flame to burst from you, damaging anyone within 10 feet of you. All creatures and objects within that area, except for you and any creatures or objects that share your space, take 1d6 points of fire damage.

Augment: for every 4 additional spell points you spend on this spell increase the damage by 1d6.
Augment: the range for this spell increase by 5 feet for every 10 points spent on this spell

Fire III
XP to learn: 1,500
Requirements: Fire I, II
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close 25 ft.
Effect: One orb of fire
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex for partial; see text
Spell point cost: 3

An orb of fire about 3 inches across shoots from your palm at its target, dealing 1d8 points of fire damage. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. A creature struck by the orb takes damage and blinded for 1 round. A successful Reflex save negates the blinding effect but does not reduce the damage.

Augment: for every additional 3 points you spend on this spell increases the damage by 1d8
Augment: you gain an additional orb for every 10 points you spend on this spell.

Fire IV
XP to learn: 2,000
Requirements: Fire I,II,III
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: personal.
Area: 30ft, all of which must be connected in one continuous path
Duration: Instantaneous
Spell point cost: 3
 
You create a path of flame when you cast this spell. Anything along this path takes 1d10 points of fire damage to all creatures and objects it touches. The flame lights up the area as if it were a torch, and small sparks and decaying flames remain in the area for 1 round, shedding light as candles but dealing no damage. A creature or object can be affected only once by each casting of this spell. If the damage from the flame destroys an interposing barrier, the flame can move beyond the barrier if it has area remaining.

Augment: for every additional 3 points you spend on this spell increases the damage by 1d10
Augment: for every 6 points spent on this spell the spells area increases by 5 ft.

Fire V
XP to learn: 2,500
Requirements: Fire I '" IV
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long 400 ft
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell point cost: 5

The spell creates an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d12 points of fire damage every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. You determine the range (distance and height) at which the spell is to burst. The spell sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the spell may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier.

Augment: for every 5 additional points you spend on this spell increases the damage by 1d12
Augment: for every 15 points spent on this spell increase the area by 5ft.

Fire VI
XP to learn: 3,000
Requirements: Fire I '" V
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium 100 ft.
Effect: Opaque sheet of flame up to 20 ft. or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft.; either form 20 ft. high
Duration: 5 rounds
Saving Throw: None
Spell point cost: 5

An immobile, blazing curtain of fire springs into existence. One side of the wall, selected by you, sends forth waves of heat, dealing 2d4 points of fire damage to creatures within 10 feet and 1d4 points of fire damage to those past 10 feet but within 20 feet. The wall deals this damage when it appears and on your turn each round to all creatures in the area. In addition, the wall deals 2d6 points of fire damage to any creature passing through it. The wall deals double damage to undead creatures. If you evoke the wall so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. If any 5-foot length of wall takes 20 points of cold damage or more in 1 round, that length goes out.

Augment:
Augment:

Fire VII
XP to learn: 3,500
Requirements: Fire I '" VI
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium 100 ft.
Area: Cylinder (10-ft. radius, 40 ft. high)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell point cost: 7

This spell produces a vertical column of fire roaring downward. The spell deals 2d6 points of damage
 
Augment: for every 7 additional points you spend on this spell increases the damage by 2d6
Augment: for every 15 points spent on this spell increase the area by 5ft.

Fire VIII
XP to learn: 4,000
Requirements: Fire I '" VII
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Effect: Flaming whips
Duration: 5 rounds
Spell point cost: 7

Your forelimbs transform into flaming whips. You gain two melee touch attacks with a 15-foot reach that each deal 2d8 points of fire damage. Attacks with these flaming whips replace any natural attacks you had with those limbs.
While this spell is in effect, you cannot cast spells, nor can you carry items with your forelimbs. Any items worn on your forelimbs cease functioning while the spell is active.

Augment: for every 5 additional points you spend on this spell increases the damage by 2d8
Augment: the character receives an additional attack for every 20 points spent on this spell

Fire IX
XP to learn: 4,500
Requirements: Fire I '" VIII
Under construction

Fire X
XP to learn: 5,000
Requirements: Fire I '" IX
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium 100 ft
Area: Two 10-ft. cubes
Duration: 3 rounds
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell point cost: 9


When the spell is cast, the whole target area is shot through with sheets of roaring flame. The raging flames damage everything they touch causing  2d12 points of fire damage

Augment: for every 9 additional points you spend on this spell increases the damage by 2d12
Augment: for every 10 points spent on this spell increases the area by an additional 10ft cube
[/spoiler]

Here is my rough idea for the first three Earth spells.
 [spoiler]Earth I
XP to learn: 500
Requirements: None
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close 25 ft.
Effect: One razor sharp piece of stone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell point cost: 1

A razor sharp piece of stone shoots from your palm in the direction of your target, dealing 1d4 points of piercing damage. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target

Augment: for every additional 2 points you spend on this spell increases the damage by 1d4
Augment:

Earth II
XP to learn: 1,000
Requirements: Earth I
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: personal
Duration: 24 hours or until discharged
Saving Throw: none
Spell point cost: 1

The warded creature gains resistance to blows, cuts, stabs, and slashes. The subject gains damage reduction 10/adamantine. (It ignores the first 10 points of damage each time it takes damage from a weapon, though an adamantine weapon bypasses the reduction.) Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage, it is discharged.

Augment: for every 3 additional points you spend on this spell increases the protection by 10.
Augment:

Earth III
XP to learn: 1,500
Requirements: Earth I, II
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Stone or stone object touched, up to 10 cu. ft.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell point cost: 3

You can form an existing piece of stone into any shape that suits your purpose. For example, you can make a stone weapon, a special trapdoor, or a crude idol. The spell also permits you to reshape a stone door to make an exit where one didn't exist or to seal a door shut. While it's possible to make crude coffers, doors, and so forth with this spell, fine detail isn't possible. There is a 30% chance that any shape including moving parts simply doesn't work.

Augment: for every 2 additional points you spend on this spell increases the volume effected by 1 cu. ft.
Augment: by spending 5 spell points you may use this spell to shape metal
Augment: by spending 7 spell points you may use this spell to shape crystal and gemstone  
[/spoiler]

So I have been thinking more about spells and how I want magic to work in my setting. I came up with a new idea and I wanted to run it pass the guild to see what you think of it.

My idea is that you lean a single spell and as you progress you can learn ways to better utilize that spell.
For example, by spending 500 XP your character learns the fire spell (see below) and gains a supernatural ability of fire resistance 1.
 
Fire I
XP to learn: 500
Requirements: none
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 5 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell point cost: 1

A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage. Flammable materials, such as cloth, paper, parchment, and thin wood burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.

Now the character has the option to select the abilities that he wants for that spell (see below). Also, for each ability the character buys for this spell increase his damage reduction against fire increase by one.

500 XP increases the range of the spell by 10ft
500 XP the character may cast this spell as a line
1,000 XP the damage of this spell is increased by 1d4
1,000 XP the character may cast this spell as a cylinder

I still need to find away to work spell points in, hmm

On your fire spells: For the augments where you can increase damage for spell points, I would put a cap on how much you can do. THat way, a magic weilder couldn't just empty their tanks for a massive 20d6 fireball or the like.

very good so far. i have no input...yet. I will be following this.

Ok I have done some more tweaking on my idea from above

Fire
XP to learn: 250
Requirements: none
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action  
Duration: Instantaneous
Spell point cost: 1

The spell creates a small wisp of flame that rests in palm of your hand Flammable materials, such as cloth, paper, parchment, and thin wood burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action. The wisp provides the same amount of light as a torch. Upon learning this spell the character gains fire resistance 1as a supernatural ability.

Enhancements

Increase spells rage by 5ft 500XP
Increase spells area by 5ft 1,000XP
The spell can be cast as a burst 2,000XP
The spell can be cast as a cone 2,000XP
The spell can be cast as a line 2,000XP
The spell can be cast as a cylinder 2,000XP
The spell can be cast as a ray 2,000XP
The spell does d4 damage 5,000XP
The spell does d6 damage 10,000XP
The spell does d8 damage 15,000XP
The spell does d10 damage 20,000XP
The spell does d12 damage 25,000XP
The damage die is increased by 1d(current damage type) 2,000XP

ENJOYING THE SKILL/EXP USE.  
the more of a game I create, the further I get away from combat spells, and the deeper I get into non-combat magic, the kind of magic that is really used in a world.  How are you planning to address this?

Quote from: LordVreegENJOYING THE SKILL/EXP USE.  
the more of a game I create, the further I get away from combat spells, and the deeper I get into non-combat magic, the kind of magic that is really used in a world.  How are you planning to address this?

What I am trying to create is a magic system is extremely customizable and unique. All spells have the ability to inflict damage as well as more useful and have more non-combat uses. The examples listed above are just rough ideas for what I'm trying to build. The more I work on it, the more non-combat uses I'll be adding to it.

Do you have any suggestions on what I should do?

I think that for a lot of your ideas you can't write out set mechanics. For example: If you wanted to only use a spell for a non-combat reason that doesn't produce a variable outcome, there is no way you can write a dice rules set for that effect. A lot of it just has to be done via narrative description.

If you still need help with hit points I think I can be of some assistance. What if HD were bought on an exp. points system like everything else? If you wanted more HD you would have to pay more exp. You could make it so players had to choose at character creation and could not change it, or make it flexible throughout the game.

Levels that the exp could be bought at could be based on dice just like classes are in traditional d20
d4
d6
d8
d10
d12

You could even expand and go higher, maybe d20 and above, but that would cost a LOT of exp.

Quote from: So-KeherI think that for a lot of your ideas you can't write out set mechanics. For example: If you wanted to only use a spell for a non-combat reason that doesn't produce a variable outcome, there is no way you can write a dice rules set for that effect. A lot of it just has to be done via narrative description.

That is very true; I was thinking the same thing. At the same time do want to create a rule set for most of my spells that would act more like guidelines for how they work. I have started looking at white wolfs "mage" game as well as GURPS. I am hoping that putting all three systems in my head will allow me to generate something new.

Quote from: So-KeherIf you still need help with hit points I think I can be of some assistance. What if HD were bought on an exp. points system like everything else? If you wanted more HD you would have to pay more exp. You could make it so players had to choose at character creation and could not change it, or make it flexible throughout the game.

Levels that the exp could be bought at could be based on dice just like classes are in traditional d20
d4
d6
d8
d10
d12

You could even expand and go higher, maybe d20 and above, but that would cost a LOT of exp.

So let me see if I have this right:
A character wants to get more HP so he has the option to buy the type of hit dice that he can roll with.
A d4 will cost 1,000xp per roll
A d6 will cost 2,000xp per roll
A d8 will cost 3,000xp per roll
A d10 will cost 4,000xp per roll
A d12 will cost 5,000xp per roll
A d20 would cost 6,000xp per roll

Quote from: XXsiriusXXSo let me see if I have this right:
A character wants to get more HP so he has the option to buy the type of hit dice that he can roll with.
A d4 will cost 1,000xp per roll
A d6 will cost 2,000xp per roll
A d8 will cost 3,000xp per roll
A d10 will cost 4,000xp per roll
A d12 will cost 5,000xp per roll
A d20 would cost 6,000xp per roll

I was thinking of it more as a one shot deal (stuck with the HD setting for the rest of the game) but I like your idea better. xp costs are up to you but they seem appropriate where they are. maybe you might want to follow similar rules about squared bonuses as provided in the DMG 3.5 for pricing magic items, but that IS different so I don't know.