The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: brainfaceThere can be strong elements of both darkness and grit in cebegia, but they wont necessarilly be universal.  Kids will, on occasion, eat ice cream. But there can also be entrail dragging zombies--maybe not entrail dragging zombie babies  . unless the zombie babies are also eating ice cream.

I officially nominate this as a 'core ethos statement' candidate.

... can I get a '2nd' ?

We already have a core ethos statement. But I'll second that I like what brainface said.

Quote from: TúrinWe already have a core ethos statement. But I'll second that I like what brainface said.

thats really all i ask. :D .

I don't think people really have the concept of a dark and gritty tone understood. Dark and gritty never meant that there's no ice cream...

Think of things like the Crow: dirty, corrupt, violent world. But there was kind hearted beat cop, the crow himself, the little girl, and the whole true love story behind it all.

What about the Professional? Same kind of thing. Drugs, violence, abuse, but the hero was an assassin, who took in an orphan and gave his life to protect her.

A dark and gritty world doesn't have to be Ravenloft. It can just have no clear good guys and bad guys. Maybe there's corruption in everything, and at times the empire seems justified, while at other times they seem like warmongers. Executions might be common public occasions, with questionably expediant trials. Still the imperial guard is led by paladin-like knights in shining armor, who stop to help those in need, and valiantly defend the innocent.

On the flip side, maybe the totem warriors ambush imperial caravans, and kill every man, woman, and child. They might be starving for supplies in their city-states, but it doesn't excuse their ruthlessness. It's the whole concept of violence begetting violence, and the meaning of the war becoming lost in the mess of it all.

All dark and gritty means to me is that the really heroic people are outnumbered by the really nasty people. It also means that most commoners are poor and their living conditions are not so great. It does not mean that children won't play. Think of the children in London who played games in the streets during WWII, while surrounded by burned out buildings ruins...that's dark and gritty to me.

-Nasty-

Nasty's right; don't really have much to say on that. There's a war going on; the city states are being pressured and attacked, and are forced to defend themselves. The Empire will be spreading propaganda to keep their people on their side, or some areas of the Empire (the inner region) won't even know about the war.

One other thing; a dark and gritty tone determines what the world looks and feels like, but it has ne bearing upon the kind of stories you can run. The backdrop and theme may have undertones of hate, prejudice, and oppression, but you could still run a campy action adventure (a la firefly) in that kind of setting. You can still run a love story (a la Casblanca). You can still run a dramitic tragedy (a la Hamlet). You can still run a kick in the door monster bash (a la Doom). Tone does limit story options, in enables them.

-Nasty-

QuoteAll dark and gritty means to me is that the really heroic people are outnumbered by the really nasty people. It also means that most commoners are poor and their living conditions are not so great. It does not mean that children won't play. Think of the children in London who played games in the streets during WWII, while surrounded by burned out buildings ruins...that's dark and gritty to me.

yeahhh... one of the reasons i voted against it was because it still had a vaguely undefined meaning. I'm not convinced everyone here means the same thing when they say 'dark and gritty'. I mean, gawd, it's not like it's in the *dictionary*.

I can agree with your post as a general statement of theme. I guess it's kinda long, though. :) (while i wouldn't have agreed with, you know--'dark and gritty like revanloft')

Quoteyeahhh... one of the reasons i voted against it was because it still had a vaguely undefined meaning. I'm not convinced everyone here means the same thing when they say 'dark and gritty'. I mean, gawd, it's not like it's in the *dictionary*.

That sir was the whole reason for my post. People don't seem to understand Tone as well as I had expected. Tone makes things easier to define and design, not more challenging or limiting. If you don't agree with my vision of "dark and gritty," propose your own. If you think there is a better tone for the setting, propose that one instead.

-Nasty-