The Campaign Builder's Guild

So, I've been thinking lately about the essential nature of monsters, and what separates them from each other. I've been trying to consider what makes something a dragon (a favorite example for many gamers).

Is a dragon just being a big reptilian monster?

I was discussing it with Tybalt on my Kishar Animas thread, and he said something interesting:

Quote from: TybaltDragons: dragons in my setting are actually powerful elemental beings as well as reptilian. They are associated with the main four alchemical elements, earth, air, water, fire. This is part of why they love treasure; they love the purity of perfected metals and gemstones and the like; it is almost like a symphony of elements to them that is hypnotic in its fascination.

your[/i] setting? Do they have a special background or creation myth?

In my setting, dragons don't exist.... Except maybe as monsters in myths and legends. In that role, they would almost universally be just the "generic monster" - chaotic, ravenous, vicious, violent, malevolent, relentless.

As for what makes a dragon? Well.... big, scales, and, in my mind, some form of supernatural quality. if it's just a big lizard, then surely it's a dinosaur. It's got to breath fire, or cast spells, or have human-like intelligence, or be able to fly despite the fact that it weighs a stupid amount and it's wings could never lift it. That's what a dragon is, to me.

On the other hand, just cause that's what a dragon IS, doesn't mean people can't CALL things dragons, which are just big lizards.

Now a dragon isn't just wings and scales and breath and claws, that what a dragon MEANS. What a dragon IS, is power.

I figured someone was going to use it eventually, so I did. And it fits right in. To me, a dragon conjures images of certain things, power, wealth, longevity, to name a few. My players, and I'm sure yours, talk about the dragon that they slayed much more often than any other encounter, even if it was a big more dramatic.

A dragon is a dragon if it conjures up the imagery associated with a dragon. At least to me.

I'd say it was the other way round. Dragon is wings/scales/breath/claws whatever, but what it means, what it really represents... that's power.

Quote from: KindlingI'd say it was the other way round. Dragon is wings/scales/breath/claws whatever, but what it means, what it really represents... that's power.

First, I was pulling from the Pirates quote, and second, when you look in the dictionary, you'll find the scales wings claws etc., it's what it means. But what a Dragon IS, the essense of the dragon, that's power.

Dragons to me are a form of power, as others have said. But I see them as being so powerful and unique that any action one undertakes echoes throughout the ages. In Haveneast, dragons are incredibly rare (do they even exist?), have all of the standard western qualities (though barring a few exceptions, there is none of this "color denotes breath weapon and habitat" nonsense - they all breathe fire and may live anywhere), and they are extremely intelligent. The very death of one creates a void in history for millenia. That being said, dragons don't always have to be the big nasty beasts that the heroic knights ride out to defeat (and they aren't always in Haveneast).

A dragon's essential qualities? Vaguely has to resemble the eastern or western dragon forms (or both). It could even be just a massive snake or komodo dragon-type thing, but in general it has to have some serpentine or lizardlike qualities. While they almost certainly need specific physical qualities, their actual natures and some of their traits can be disputed and altered. For example, in Haveneast I also have dragons that are a source of undeath and are technically undead themselves... You could do any number of things, including what Tybalt spoke of. There are various examples of varying roles that dragons can play, including D&D, classic literature, the Pern series, Eragon, and more. It's all up to you.

This may sound like a copout; I believe that a Dragon can represent anything that the author wants it to. There is really no one characteristic that truly defines anything.

there's fairly large room for interprintation offcourse, but all interprintations still work from the same basis.

I'll say it's not only the image of a powerfull scaled being, but an important detail is that it's not only powefilly, it's also a primal power in mortal flesh. something that have shaped the world and fueled the myths from since man lived in caves.
 that's what I'll say is one of the the major difference between dragons and other powerfull monsters.  demons and angels is a manifistation of evil and good, and not even mortal. and the difference between dragons and the lesser mortal beings. they can slay dragons sure, but they are young, and last for merely the blink of an eye, even the longest living ones.

To me Dragons represent a person's worst fear. whether that be death or success or spiders or whatever. and the giant serpent with wings is just something all people agree would inspire absolute terror.  Thats why beating them is so satisfying too, you beat the scariest thing in the world and you are a hero.

The problem with your interpretation, Locknpop, is that you've left no room for good dragons.

They are enormous flying lizards. Some are smart. Some are brutes. Some are good. Some evil. Some magic and/or fire breathing. Others not so much.

I kind of figure each dragon is a unique case, and that they wouldn't bother with things like "breeds" or "species."

You could ask one where it came from, and if it was the smart kind it would tell you it was always there.

To me, a dragon is simply that, a dragon.

I mean, by my definition a dragon is a powerful, reptilian creature with varying intelligence. Some have elaborate plots to control the world, others want nothing more than treasure, and some look out for the little guys and have altruistic goals.

In a larger sense, as I see them, dragons are depictions of mankind's souls. European dragons were rapacious, vicious, and unimaginably destructive. Much like medieval European armies. Eastern dragons were enlightened, orderly, and prone to decadence (the Lung dragon is supposedly inclined to roast swan.) Dragons are the mythical depictions of the potential of mankind. It can be an unthinking machine of destruction, an enlightened and beatific force, or a greedy, machiavellian plotter with immeasurable strength.

That's why we enjoy beating dragons. By defeating evil ones, we strike at the darkness capable in all of us.

Yeah, it's that varied definition that is at issue. For example, the lindorm (legless basically giant snake) is still a dragon, as is the bat-lizard-like classic European wyrm, and the Chinese long dragon is something else entirely. But we call them all dragons, even though they seem to have little in common.

My current list of Kishar dragon categories:
    * Amphisbaena
    * Feathered Serpent
    * Hydra
    * Leviathan
    * Lindworm
    * Long Dragon
    * Naga
    * Rainbow Serpent
    * Sea Serpent
    * Wyrm
    * Wyvern

Quote from: Stargate525The problem with your interpretation, Locknpop, is that you've left no room for good dragons.

thats because if you beat a good dragon you feel bad

i suppose there would be an upside to having good dragons but only if you convince them to join you against fighting bad dragons. then the good dragons would have to represent, like allwillfall said i think, the  goodness that mankind could do.

I personally tend to side with Locknpop's view on dragons.  I've never liked good dragons, and handy color-coded ones were always the bane of my existance.  In my games dragons are evil, giant monsters that inhabit the darkest corners of your nightmares.  Some are Machievellian, others are just brutes, and a couple are repentant, but all have a history of violence and slaughter.