The Campaign Builder's Guild

So, for my friend's campaign I decided to try something new and creative: a wrestler character.  I was just curious as to other people's thoughts on what race and class a wrestler character would be.  I'm trying to be creative with it, so I'm avoiding the human race (no offense to those humans out there).  It can't be crazy (like a dragon), so I'm thinking the race should be medium sized, and bipedal (2 legs please, we don't need dire rat wrestlers).

My thoughts were a lizardfolk barbarian or fighter.  Mostly because the lizardfolk get a +5 natural armor bonus.  Barbarians get the D12 health and uncanny dodge, but fighters get a crapload of bonus feats.  


Penny for your thoughts?

Wizard is the best grappler in D&D. Druid goblin is funny, but a wizard anything makes Baby Pelor cry.

Wizard huh?  How so?

Ready? Ok so... oh wait. You actually have to be human. Who cares? Nobody. OK. Anyway, so your a wizard. Your highest stat is INT, 'cause your a wizard. Then your second highest stat is STR, 'cause you need that for wrestling.
Your two feats are Imp.Unarmed Strike 'cause somebody though Imp.Grapple needed a prerequisite. Also, you've summoned an octopus familiar. So far your grapple is +9, which is three points higher than a monk's next level. Yeah, and since Lvl monster's don't grapple, you win.

There's more... but you must ask for it.

Er, first off, there are some really good anti-grapples I could throw at him (I'm the DM in this game), and second, unless he's running about pulling a large glass fishtank with him, his familiar, and a few points of Con, will go away really fast. Thirdly, the kind of shenanigans you can get from the wizards buffs will not be looked upon with kindness.

Seen the build before, haven't you? Scary isn't it?

Heard of it. It's just that we actually do roleplaying, not uber-optimizing things that are best left as thought experiments.

if by "grapple", you mean "blow stuff up at point-blank range", then yes, they are killer. (And yes, I realize its potential, but seriously. Do you see the guys graduating from MIT and CalTech becoming the heavyweight champions of the UFC?) And what happens if you meet another wizard/cleric? One word, two syllables: boom. Also, what happens when you hit 17th level and Clerics get Gate?

In real world mano-e-mano combat intelligence plays a huge part both to study human kinesiology to better move your own body, and psychology to understand why/how/when your opponent moves.

Just because you study puhning people, doesn't mean your a moron. In fact, being a moron that punches people will mean that your too stupid to recognize a situation where punching will get you killed.

Being a grappler wizard is like being a robotics engineering that's studied wrestling to write his doctorate on physics.

At Lvl17, when a cleric get's Gate, you have Gate too, 'cause you didn't take conjuration as a barred school. In any case, if he uses it to summon something, you'll wrestle it and win, and if he makes event, you'll counter it with an event of your own.

The grappler wizard's uses a set of range personal spells that are supposed to be kept just-in-case (a terrible design concept BTW) that add up with feats you'd give a monster as an after thought to bring the numbers into a range where he wins one-on-one grapples, and can even competently perform three on one grapples, in addition to being the awesome Batman that being a wizard makes you.

On a less A) absurd and B) semi questionable note, set yourself up to be a Reaping Mauler from Complete Warrior. I'd go barbarian, since those rage bonuses are nice.

For race, if you have it, go Goliath or Half-Giant. Either race is medium sized, but, if I recall correctly, are treated as Large for the purposes of anything but reach and space - including grappling.

Here they are I'm pretty sure I saw a non-psionic one somewhere, but there's no reason why a non-psionic game couldn't drop the pp and either let him use stomp as an SLA or, barring that, just have him take a comparable spell as an SLA.

Just my two cp.

Gate isn't just for summoning monsters, you know. With other clerical spell combos, a cleric can create a near Greater Arifact through Gate. Besides, a properly built CLeric destroys everything. No questions asked.

Quote from: Sir VorpalGate isn't just for summoning monsters, you know. With other clerical spell combos, a cleric can create a near Greater Arifact through Gate. Besides, a properly built CLeric destroys everything. No questions asked.

You missed the part where I said you could counter a cleric's Gate created event with your own Gate created even. Any properly build full caster is all powerful, and combat between any two becomes rocket launcher tag and contingency onion peeling.

The grappler wizard cheeses this set-up hardcore by using spells that were designed to be there just-in-case into actually being useful for something, that you happened to be planning to be good at, and get a big bonus to grapples for no reason other than poor design. A little research, and some cherry picking, and a wizard is comparable to DIRE BEARS AT LEVEL 6!!!

OK, after obvious feat choices, in D&D 3,5 Grappling has three variables that add together to make a total. STR mod, BAB and size mod.

A druid gets the easiest path to glory in the ring. He has access to huge STR and big sizes, as well as methods to boost these and a partner to help out. A druid wildshaped into a dire bear and a dire bear will hug goblins into pulp and still be able to handle ghosts, demons, trolls, swordsmen and evil glowing pudding. The fact that you're BAB is going to be a few points lower than a Barbarian's isn't an issue 'cause you're actually two bears with a total of 60 STR between the two, and he'll only manage 40, even if you help him.

Well, other than the insight into the madness of optimizing, via the speech of taken, I'm mainly limited on what I can answer by not knowing what you have. So far, I've gathered 3.x D&D...in which case, I'd recommend Kuo-toa monk. Straight out of the MM, they're not that impressive, except when escaping grapples, but IIRC, the MMV included several feats to improve the build, one of which involved using their natural adhesive on their fists... Failing that, a Cleric of Kord can Grapple anyone. Especially if you use the  Mighty Contender PrC.