Thaedia Feedback Thread

Xathan · April 24, 2006, 09:06:32 PM

Quote from: supadupamanWas reading through those religions, and i have to say the Order look exactly right. that's totaly what i was thinking. While doing this though, i had a though on the twisted.

what if only very extreem cases were actually another race. the majority are humans that have minor mutations that use a similar system to the flaws and/or traits from UA. this can allow people to play something weird, or to play a human with an interesting gimmick.

then, there are also those inside the Order (or some individuals) who embrace their mutations and then train/develope them (a transformational prestige class).

Hmm...I like that.

I'm thinking about this: There are three tiers of twisted.

One kind is as you described, and gets flaws/benifets that have minor influence, allowing you to play the wierd without going too far.

The second kind is more suited for NPCs but would work for a PC race as well, and they would have major drawbacks (take 1d6 damage per round of exposure to the sun) but with major benefits (has four arms and can fly)

The third kind are members of the first group, but work with the Order to embrance their mutations and become more powerful, eventually far surpassing the ability of the second group of the Twisted.

Thoughts? It needs to be developed more, I know, but it's a start.

Velox · April 25, 2006, 03:35:02 AM

The conflict between humanity and the immortals is awesome. I love the fact that people more-or-less refuse the celestials and most of them fight against damnation at the hands of the fiends. After all, with the celestials offering paradise while bringing destruction, and the fiends claiming that heaven is slavery, people would most likely just wish that these jokers would leave them alone.

So why, exactly, do people refuse the celestials? You say that "celestials fought to save the souls of a humanity who didnÃ¢,¬,,¢t want it", but why? Do people (at least on some level) beleive the fiends, that heaven is slavery? Maybe they fear they are not worthy, did not live a righteous life, and heaven would not be kind to them. Maybe they'd rather work to make life worthwhile, rather than invest in an afterlife.

It would be tempting to go to Hell and rise through the ranks, ultimately acheiving unbelievable power (I can just see thousands of corporate goons flocking to the dark one). But still, most people aren't going to want to go there and dig up rocks or whatever.

I guess what I'm getting at is that if you want to capture a more "shades of gray" feel, its gotta seem subjective. People are going to have many different opinions on what Heaven and Hell are, and who the fiends and celestials are.

I really like the idea of the greatest heros being those who choose to do good not because of any rewards, but simply because that it is the way. I think the real world could learn a lesson from this game.

After seeing "Silent Hill" and considering previous games of "Deadlands: Hell on Earth", I came to an interesting conclusion.[spoiler]It is horrible to be ripped apart by a monstrous demon; but it's alot worse if you think you might deserve it. In Deadlands, you survived Judgement Day, and were living in a damned place. You had to wonder to yourself "Why am I not in heaven? Is everyone else there? Is this really Hell?" And you might be considering that all the way up to the point where some horrible thing tears your intestines out and laughs at you. Just a thought; demonic armies representing a reckoning for ones misdeeds are alot more scary than occupying forces.[/spoiler]
Why cant the immortals go home? Is it a "come back victorius or dont come back at all" thing? Are the immortals on Thaedia the screw-ups, the guys who have something to prove to their god? Is it more of a personal grudge between the two races than it is a fight for their masters?

The war on the mortal realm is affecting the primal realms around it... how exactly? Maybe those realms feed off the mortal realm in some way... they need it and the people in it (and maybe their thoughts/beleifs). If those people are dying, then so will the primal realms, perhaps?

[quote Xathan]"The realms not currently settled by humanity could not be settled by any Immortal, though mortal offspring of any faction could settle there."[/quote]one of the greatest things about Deadlands: Hell On Earth as a post-nuclear game was you had to randomly draw a card from a deck while making a character. If you drew the wrong card... you're a mutant whether you like it or not. I'm not usually a hard-ass GM, I want people to have fun. But if you're playing in my Post Apocolyptic survival horror game, be prepared for some immersion. They say to me "well, that's not exactly what I wanted for this character", and I say "Yeah, I don't think your character wanted it, either."[/spoiler] What exactly makes muties in your game? I want to discuss them some more later. I feel ideas being formed...

[quote Xathan]"...ghouls were used extensively to help both humans, celestials, and fiends disperse after the war"[/quote]"...This liberation would turn humans to debauchery, fornication, and fatalism. Instead, ghouls take up long-term intellectual pursuits, such as philosophy, art, magic, or other activities that they can persue once they arrive in Hades."[/quote] They are two sides of the same coin, (if you didn't notice, one's name is just the other one's spell backwards) but abhor the other. [/quote]
Yes, I did notice. You're very clever. Now shut up.

(I'm joking... it's a line from Princess Bride. Don't shut up, write lots more.)

Xathan · April 25, 2006, 09:14:07 PM

Big long reply: sorry it took so long to write.

Quote from: Immortal RejectsWhen I say the Immortals on Thaedia are the rejects, I mean that they are less than perfect exemplars of the ideas they uphold. Fiends on Thaedia will show compassion, though it is rare, and celestials of Thaedia will at times be cruel and malicious. Essentially, they are more fallible, more human.[/note]The real reason is because of the whole Ã¢,¬Å"come back with your shield or on itÃ¢,¬Â idea, and because many of the immortals sent to Thaedia are the ones that are less than perfect. They are the Ã¢,¬ËrejectsÃ¢,¬,,¢, though they have told no mortal this, and probably never will. Also, the higher ups are mostly not rejects, with a few notable exceptions. (to be defined later)

The individual Immortal is able to trun, which is called "Falling" for Celestials and "Ascending" for Fiends, though this terminology is used by celestials, not by feinds. (Fiends call "falling" "Awakening" and "ascending" "blinding," viewing celestials that fall awakening to the truth and fiends that ascend to be blinding themselves to it. Human scholars on the subject use the positive term for each, so celestials awaken and fiends ascend.) Since the Final War, 3% of the Immortal population has either awakened and ascended, and 6% has become apathetic (neutral). While these numbers seem small, they represent an increas of 3000% in both areas.

Quote from: new termThe blooded refers to, as a group, any human with an Immortal ancestor that is recent enough for it to be a different race.[/note] Yes, half-breeds and the blooded can and do form their own communities on the surface, though such a community must be founded outside human controlled lands (since the Apocalypse, most communities of any race are little more than city states, so the area outside human controlled lands is large.) Immortals cannot congregate in groups of greater than 7 on the surface without violating the treaty.

Also, there are a disproportionate number of half-breeds and the blooded on the surface for only 74 years. This is due to their dual natures. Immortals are born fully grown, so there are no baby demons or celestials, and when they mate with a human, a half breed has a very rapid childhood: They are in the womb for about a week, and reach physical, sexual, and mental maturity at age 3, at which point their ageing plateaus for quite some time (no one really knows how long half-breeds live, or if they even have a finite lifespan.) Other blooded undergo a similarly rapid birth/maturation period, meaning the blooded community exploded initially. It has since slowed down considerably, but that is due more to a lack of available resources to feed infants than any ability of the blooded.

Quote from: Xathan"...ghouls were used extensively to help both humans, celestials, and fiends disperse after the war"

Khabhen forsake my eyes, no! IÃ¢,¬,,¢m trying to get away from undead and death = evil here, and ghouls being corpse eaters has the opposite intent. :P By disperse, I mean they were used as peacekeepers to help oversee where they went, that they went there, that no one was trying to hide out where they didnÃ¢,¬,,¢t belong or leave behind a hidden troop or magical device.

Quote from: Xathan"...This liberation would turn humans to debauchery, fornication, and fatalism. Instead, ghouls take up long-term intellectual pursuits, such as philosophy, art, magic, or other activities that they can pursue once they arrive in Hades."

Oh, I agree. But they donÃ¢,¬,,¢t take it to the degree humans would. Part of this is due to the fact that a Ghoul has muted senses of touch, taste, and scent, though heightened senses of hearing and sight. Of course, this also means that some go to extremes no human could fathom.

Quote from: XathanThey are two sides of the same coin, (if you didn't notice, one's name is just the other one's spell backwards) but abhor the other.
But I like showing off how clever I am. :P No, seriously, is it too cheesy, or just right?

Quote(I'm joking... it's a line from Princess Bride. Don't shut up, write lots more.)
And I got that reference. More is coming, I promise: got the Vaemis write up that I need to transfer to computer, and more will be coming later, though I canÃ¢,¬,,¢t promise anything other than the Vaemis before Friday afternoon. Thank you so much for the feedback, Velox: it really helps me develop the setting more. :D

Xathan · April 25, 2006, 10:32:39 PM

Oh, updated the Races section. I'm particularly interested in thoughts on the Vaemis, though I also added to the Aasimar racial section.

Captain Obvious · April 25, 2006, 11:39:56 PM

The vaemis look like a heat idea, but the frequent changes might cause problems. If the two sets of traits are significantly different, it might radicaly change how a character works frequently ( and depending on the traits, might even cause the character to loose prerequisites. I would need to see the traits themselves to be sure of this).

Also, you say they are fertile the whole time they are female, but how would a pregnancy work? Do they have pregnacies as normal? Would they stay female until they give birth? what happens if they are about to give birth while they are currently male?

Just a few thing to bear in mind.

Xathan · April 25, 2006, 11:53:08 PM

QuoteThe vaemis look like a heat idea, but the frequent changes might cause problems. If the two sets of traits are significantly different, it might radicaly change how a character works frequently ( and depending on the traits, might even cause the character to loose prerequisites. I would need to see the traits themselves to be sure of this).

Also, you say they are fertile the whole time they are female, but how would a pregnancy work? Do they have pregnacies as normal? Would they stay female until they give birth? what happens if they are about to give birth while they are currently male?[/quote]

Pregnancy only lasts for 7 days with the Vaemis. If that carries you over into your next cycle, your cycle re-adjusts to that new way. (which can cause real problems if you have a mate and want more children, though most Vaemis parings are not that long lasting.)

Xathan · April 26, 2006, 12:39:53 AM

Added humans, though all the text is in red for me saying that all of that will likely change, it's just an idea righ tnow.

Captain Obvious · April 26, 2006, 04:17:45 AM

QuotePregnancy only lasts for 7 days with the Vaemis. If that carries you over into your next cycle, your cycle re-adjusts to that new way. (which can cause real problems if you have a mate and want more children, though most Vaemis parings are not that long lasting.)

If the conception to birth turnover time is so quick, this would make me think that they should have a far more significant population. Any creature that can gve birth in a week will have a vastly superior birth rate to all other races. If they haven't covered the world, why not? Are there lots of stillborn? Are they unable to become pregnant for some large period of time afterwards? do they just have very very short life spans, that keep the population growth low? Are they a very recently created race that hasn't had the chance to increase for very long as of yet? (this then begs the question "how did they get created all of a sudden?")

Xathan · April 26, 2006, 06:18:02 AM

Well, they have only been around a few decades, like any other celestial blooded: after all, that's all the time they have had for humans and celestials to produce offspring. Also, they are limited by what they can support: A person gives birth at the rate of one child a week will have 52 babies within a year, and feeding that many mouths is a nightmare. Also, just because they are fertile doesn't mean that it will 'catch' - it is harder for pregnancy to result among them than most races, as is true of most blooded. Also, they are only able to be pregnant half of the year, and they will rarely even try in the second half of their female cycle, not wanting to risk having thier cycle changed on them.

Xathan · April 27, 2006, 02:38:30 PM

Two ideas to note.

First, I am going to be implimenting racial levels for every race, allowing you to become a more powerful version of what you were. This will really benifit the Twisted, and also allow people who want to play an Immortal to do so with one of the Immortal races I have presented.

Also, I am working on the Vaemis stats. Here is what I have so far. It works mechanically, but I feel it needs a little something: You know, some of those random bonuses PC races get that don't really do anything and seem unrelated but add mechanical flavor. Also, I need help on how to handle gender changing.

[spoiler=Vaemis]
[note]Vaemis power is tied to the dark and light phases of the moon, Dark being when more than a half of the moon is in darkness, light being when more than half of the mooon is in light. If it is exactly a half moon, it is light if it is waxing, dark if it is waning. In the stat block, dark phase powers are referred to as DP, light phase LP[/note]
[ooc]I am trying to tie the dark phase of the moon to powers regarding darkness and deception, and the powers of the light phases to observation and light.[/ooc]

Medium Humanoid (celestial blooded)

Speed 30ft

Vision: DP: Darkvision 60ft, LP: Low Light Vision

SLAs: DP: Darkness 1/day, Faerie Fire 1/day LP: Light 1/day, Glitterdust 1/day

Skills Bonuses: DP: +2 Hide and Bluff, LP: +2 Spot and Sense motive.

Changing Gender: ??

Lycanthropsy Suceptability: Vaemis, due to their ties with the moon, suffer a -2 penalty on saving throws to resis the effects of lycanthropsy

Lycanthrope Hunters: Since they occupy the same times and niches, Vaemis train extensivly to battle evil lycanthropes. Against such creatures, Vaemis gain a +2 bonus to spot, listen, hide, move silently, and survival checks.

Grace of the Moon: Once per day, a Vaemis can channel the power of that phase of the moon to increase her combat ability. While superficially similar to a barbarians rage, the Grace of the Moon is Charisma based and does not leave the user fatigued afterwards. It lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Vaemis's charisma modifier +3
DP Grace: Gain a +2 bonus on damage roll, DR 2/cold iron, Spell Resistance 5 plus HD, Power Resistance eqaual to HD
LP Grace: Gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC, DR 2/silver, Power Resistance 5 plus HD, Spell resistance equal to HD

Languages: Automatic: Dhaphaen (celestial 1) and Trade (common), Bonus: Seraphaen (celestial 2), Regional languages, Slyvan.

Favored Class: Sorcerer?

LA: +0[/spoiler]

Soup Nazi · May 01, 2006, 09:27:22 AM

QuoteStill vulnerable to Immortal magics, humans had not won the war. But now, they were fighting it. While celestials fought to save the souls of a humanity who didnÃ¢,¬,,¢t want it, and fiends fought for ownership of these souls humans fought to keep their souls using the power inherent with them.

This just doesn't sound right to me. Celestials fight to save human souls from the demons? demons fight to take the humans souls, and humanity couldn't care less what happens to their own souls?

In a world where you come face to face with the creatures battling over your soul, I would think humans would care very much about such things. It's hard to be aetheist, and unconcerned when a Balor is licking his chops and bearing down on you.

1. Your description of humans make me think they aren't human at all. Are they now synads? If so that's kind of cool. If not maybe you should get into a little more detail and explain the other aspects of their 3 part births.

2. The twisted sound really great. I love people mutated by the power of magic, and I bet you might be able to draw some parallels between them and the demonborn of Sha'Irna. I even have stats for them in the Races of Sulos spoiler at the very end; it's kind of like the fiendish creature template with barbarian rage.

3. The goblyns sound awesome. They are the evil parallel to elves which is quite cool, and the idea of twisted fey sounds great. I want to know more about them and I was wondering if they are a PC race?

4. Your take on Ghouls is also great. I've always wanted to use them in a setting as a major race, and have yet to find a time or a place to do so. This sounds like a really great way to use them.

5. The bad news is the religions were really vague and I didn't get much of an idea about how any of them work, or interact, or even what they are about. They need some love.

6. You started off very strong with a fairly straitforward world, and then it gradually deteriorated as I read further. While I completely understand that things are still in the works. I kept finding myslef trying to put things together that just weren't complete thoughts.

7. The concept of the world is quite cool. With the battle between heaven and hell waged in the world of man, and humankind fighting back to reclaim their world. and it has psionics, so I'm natually inclined to like it from the get go.

8. I'll be happy to help with this after setting if you'd like.

-Peace-

Xathan · May 01, 2006, 02:56:43 PM

Quote from: nastynate
QuoteStill vulnerable to Immortal magics, humans had not won the war. But now, they were fighting it. While celestials fought to save the souls of a humanity who didnÃ¢,¬,,¢t want it, and fiends fought for ownership of these souls humans fought to keep their souls using the power inherent with them.

QuoteThis just doesn't sound right to me. Celestials fight to save human souls from the demons? demons fight to take the humans souls, and humanity couldn't care less what happens to their own souls?

In a world where you come face to face with the creatures battling over your soul, I would think humans would care very much about such things. It's hard to be aetheist, and unconcerned when a Balor is licking his chops and bearing down on you.
Your description of humans make me think they aren't human at all. Are they now synads? If so that's kind of cool. If not maybe you should get into a little more detail and explain the other aspects of their 3 part births.

The twisted sound really great. I love people mutated by the power of magic, and I bet you might be able to draw some parallels between them and the demonborn of Sha'Irna. I even have stats for them in the Races of Sulos spoiler at the very end; it's kind of like the fiendish creature template with barbarian rage.[/quote]The goblyns sound awesome. They are the evil parallel to elves which is quite cool, and the idea of twisted fey sounds great. I want to know more about them and I was wondering if they are a PC race?[/quote]Your take on Ghouls is also great. I've always wanted to use them in a setting as a major race, and have yet to find a time or a place to do so. This sounds like a really great way to use them.[/quote]The bad news is the religions were really vague and I didn't get much of an idea about how any of them work, or interact, or even what they are about. They need some love.

You started off very strong with a fairly straitforward world, and then it gradually deteriorated as I read further. While I completely understand that things are still in the works. I kept finding myslef trying to put things together that just weren't complete thoughts.[/quote]The concept of the world is quite cool. With the battle between heaven and hell waged in the world of man, and humankind fighting back to reclaim their world. and it has psionics, so I'm natually inclined to like it from the get go.

I'll be happy to help with this after setting if you'd like.[/quote]

Thank you very much for your comments. ItÃ¢,¬,,¢s good to have them in mind as I let Thaedia bake for awhile, and I would love to have your help when I resume work on it. :)

Xathan · May 30, 2006, 04:24:40 PM

Added the Shadar under the fiendblooded in the races section on the main page, and will be momentairly adding the Vaemis stats, since no one seems to think they are unbalanced.

Xathan · June 13, 2006, 11:27:49 PM

Ok, so here are some questions I have that I would like thoughts on:

1) Vaemis: I haven't gotten much feedback on their stats yet. Thoughts?
2) Alternate Humans: Does it make sense, or does it seem gimmiky, or what?
3) What do you want to see next?

And as always questions help me most, so please, ask away.

Raelifin · June 14, 2006, 02:56:39 AM

I don't read discussion threads when I jump into a setting, so if you've heard this stuff before, put it up in the main thread!

Question 1: How do guides work, mechanically?

Question 2: How long ago was the treaty signed?

Question 3: "every human is born at the same time as two lesser beings, a weak Immortal, one Fiend, one Celestial."
"Others, particularly members of the Order, use psionics to lock away their Guides or even slay them outright."
Aren't your guides a part of yourself? That's what I take the first quote to mean.

Question 4: Why does Grace of the Moon give you bonuses to Str and Con? We're talking about grace here, right?

Question 5: Why do darkphase (new word!) Vaemis get Faerie Fire, a spell that reveals?

Question 6: "This liberation would turn humans to debauchery, fornication, and fatalism. Instead, ghouls take up long-term intellectual pursuits, such as philosophy, art, magic, or other activities that they can pursue once they arrive in Hades."
Uh, if I were slowly dieing and I knew I'd live on for eternity, I'd spend my life doing non-intellectual things and spend my living years enjoying life.

Comment 1: "Some humans focus on their guilds, increasing their power and therefore their own."

Comment 2: Keep gender changing out of the mechanics section, as it has no in-game effect.

Comment 3: I'd make the Vaemis Favored Class: Ranger. Their lycan hunting passion, physical nature and focus on both stealth and perception point that way to me.

Comment 4: You've changed elves and added goblyns. Both of these are new races and you've changed the goblin name to help throw off confusion. But why are the elves still named elves? It's not like they are Tolgax elves or myth elves, right?

Forgive me if this post is a little weird. It's midnight right now and I'm really enjoying your setting.

The Campaign Builder's Guild

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