The Campaign Builder's Guild

I'm working on a new part of Shadowfell, and need some help - I am not very knowledgeable in Indian culture, but I think it's a very beautiful culture, and would like to use some of it as inspiration for Poskhara, a new kingdom I'm working on. I have this picture in my head of armor-clad warriors battling with curved swords, and covered in decorative silk garments of all colors, battling in front of mandirs.  They would be a very logic-based society, working on progressions in science and technology, and religion may possibly be based more on the philosophy of rationalism and spiritualism than actual beliefs in deities.  However, I could use some help.  What are some things you guys think of when you think of India - in particular, ancient India.  What kinds of things help define your visualization of this culture and the people in it?  If you have some thoughts, please post here - you can keep things as stream-of-consciousness as you like; I don't really have anything formal planned yet.
Thanks,
-Ish

Lots of dancng. in many sculptures of their gods, they are dancing. also, they had lots of myths about animal-people. Karma, reincarnation. the people were VERY good engineers. there were many public baths.

Awesome, I already like the "lots of dancing" and the "public baths" parts.  Myths about animal-people could work well too, but I'm thinking of definitely leaning towards a slightly more agnostic culture than one of theism, though I haven't set anything in stone yet.

Thanks!

Ornate might be one word that comes to mind. The architecture of the temples with their many statues, carvings, spires, and whatnot. Of course, they'd be embossed with intricate Indic scripts that seem to also match the theme.

As for the deities, perhaps the culture is rather inclusively polytheistic. That is, there are so many gods, they can't possibly hope to know them all, so while the people have a spiritual aspect, there is very little in the way of a defined pantheon.

Oh, and vimanas. ;)

Tigers and elephants, tiger men (rakhshasa or something similar), naga (humanoid snakes) in deepest jungles. Oh yeah, lots of jungle, extensive areas of tropical mountainscape. Major river for culture to develope around (Indus Valley).

Despite the idea of agnostic faith, in India, Ganesha is the god of intellect and wisdom - elephant head with multiple trunks. It is said the Ganesha had a human head, until the other gods cut it off - Indian gods, if they can cut-off a head of another being in a certain amount of time can take the decapitated head and place it where there head is supposed to be, that's how Ganesha got an elephant head (belief it or not!) Thus strange beliefs in Indian culture.

Rajahs and Maharajas are their princes and kings, respectively.

what happened was that Prince Rama's (Vishnu's incarnation) wife had a child and he didnt know. He left the house to go hunting and then later his wife wleft for something too. She told Ganesh not to let anyone in so when Rama came back he didnt let him in (neither knew each other). So he chopped his head off. When his wife came back she told him to take the head from the first animal he saw and give it to Ganesh. He chopped off a elephant's head and gave it to him.

Scholarship, rational debate - the theological and philosophical schools of the region placed great emphasis on rational debate and formal logic (still do). They have a rather stylized from of presentation of argument in their teaching, as can be found in the many sutras and shastras, both Vedic and Buddhist. Literacy is highly valued - the book market of Calcutta is one of the largest markets (of any sort) in the world.

Art was very formalized in terms of what is "classical" - suitable for the court. There are at least 72 ragas, each defined by it's ascending and descending "scales" - while performance is improvised around these scales, there are very specific manners of presentation and specific rhythms and tempos utilized for the different "movements" - they also have very specific times of day/night when they are meant to be performed. Formal graphic arts and sculpture likewise follow set conventions. Ultimately, there tends to be a set, "proper" way of doing just about everything. Knowledge and observance of these formalities helps distinguish the cultured from the common.

Society was strictly caste divided, still is to a slightly lesser degree. Nobility/warrior caste seems to have had a very strong penchant for dueling.

It's hard to look at the society without looking at religion - it's such a pervasive influence. However, the good news is that it's rather easy to look past the deities! Hinduism is a huge catch-all term fro a lot of different smaller sects. Essentially, as the bigger culture developed it readily incorporated the various local deities and made little attempt at establishing a consistent pantheon - local variation and supremacy is still the rule. The important part goes back to what you want to do with "a very logic-based society, working on progressions in science and technology, and religion may possibly be based more on the philosophy of rationalism and spiritualism." What the scholars debate at great length is the fundamental nature(s) of and relationship between deity (Brahma) and soul (atman). NB - Brahma is rarely referred to as a specific entity (like Vishnu , Shiva etc.) - rather is the essential creative source, which is personified variously as Vishnu, Shiva, etc. (depending on locale and sect). The principal point of formal debate among pundits remains whether atman is created separately from Brahma or is a part of Brahma given separate expression, determining whether (in enlightenment) one will come to know Brahma or will rejoin with Brahma. (Sorry - that's very much a simplification of the matter.) The essential thrust of all this being the attempt to comprehend the ultimate, fundamental nature of reality/existence. The Buddha weighed in on the debate as a non-deist - essentially proposing that there is no separate creator, nor really a separate anything. (Again, major oversimplification. . .) What this can boil down to in terms of setting is some very abstract concepts of deity and the preeminence scholarship. Yoga (lit. "yoking the self to the divine") is a vast corpus of methodology to clarify in a holistic fashion body, mind, and by extension, soul through interrelated practices of physical health, mental focus, behavioral purity ("good karma"), balance and "moral calibration" (my term, pulled out of my ass while practice kriya {cleansing] techniques. . .) of the emotions, i.e. training, redirecting the self to like and desire the good and wholesome, dislike and be repulsed by the bad/unwholesome. By it's extension, much (most) else developed by the culture is derived from and contained within the "great science" of yoga - Ayurveda (medicinal practices both preventative and curative), the aforementioned artistic forms, natural philosophy and (from which developed natural) sciences, etc. as well as the supposed development of a wide variety of magical and mystical powers associated with these practices.

A proposed approach to representing this in a setting would be the formal wizards' colleges of pundits (many of whom seek advisory positions in noble courts), wandering and/or reclusive yogis/sages/holy men developing inherent sorcerous abilities through their practices and separate clerics actually maintaining the temples and performing the social functions of religious ritual. Ultimately all of these practice various forms of "yoga" - the harnessing, shaping and directing of subtle energies directly related to and derived from the nature of divinity/the divinity of nature - i.e. magic.

Excellent Ishmayl, this is very exciting.  Indian culture is one of my favorites, especially to bring to a fantasy world.  I get very tired of the medieval chivalric cultures, and Indian, Middle Eastern, and Chinese influences are so much fun to bring in!

That aside, I just wanted to point something out.  I've talked to a good deal of Hindus who thought of their religion as being monotheistic.  They see all of their "gods" as being different aspects of the same greater being.  There is no way that this greater being can be depicted in such a way that we can comprehend him, so he is depicted multiple times and in multiple ways.

That's just one thought.

Good point Jharviss, and one I managed to overlook entirely in talking about the whole brahma/atman debate - it actually lies at the very heart of it! A lot of Hindus when speaking English will simply refer to God - which name they personally prefer to use in referring to God in their own worship is a rather secondary consideration and members of different sects can still discuss a great deal about God in that manner without any significant disagreement.

Snargash and Jharviss covered much of what I was going to say about it. I don't think you can divorce religion from culture and still have it be based on ancient Indian society. Some have said Hinduism isn't even a religion in the traditional sense (the cliche is that it is a way of life).

Also, remember, much of the really famous architecture is actually built by the Muslim invaders (Taj Mahal-style stuff).

I have a lot of pictures from my time there, Ishy, so if you want I can send you some photos of temples and what-not (mostly outsides, since many temples don't let you take pictures inside). The cave temples at Elora are especially impressive (and a world-heritage site).

A side note, you probably know this, but I based the cosmology and basic principles for Kishar on Hinduism and Indian philosophy. To augment what Jharviss said there is a famous dialouge (which I can't quote now because I haven't unpacked everything from the move so I don't know where that particular text is) in which a Hindu philosopher and student ask how many gods there are. The first answer is like three million. Then the speaker asks again and the answer is three hundred. And they keep asking and get down to three, and then two, and then one and half, and then the final is one. So the idea is this all-pervading essence which we perceive in different aspects, and we might name these different aspects as though they were totally different entities.

Thanks for all these great responses guys, I'm getting a nice little writeup here on this culture.  Kishar, I would love for you to send me a bunch of pictures!

Quote from: IshmaylThanks for all these great responses guys, I'm getting a nice little writeup here on this culture.  Kishar, I would love for you to send me a bunch of pictures!

Did you just refer to me by my setting name? I'm glad to see my work properly attributed...

I'll try to email you later today.

Quote from: Atlantiswhat happened was that Prince Rama's (Vishnu's incarnation) wife had a child and he didnt know. He left the house to go hunting and then later his wife wleft for something too. She told Ganesh not to let anyone in so when Rama came back he didnt let him in (neither knew each other). So he chopped his head off. When his wife came back she told him to take the head from the first animal he saw and give it to Ganesh. He chopped off a elephant's head and gave it to him.

Ganesh is usually assumed to be the son of Shiva and Parvati. Shiva chops off his head because Ganesha won't let him see Parvati, but when he learns it's his son, give him a new head.

Quote from: JharvissExcellent Ishmayl, this is very exciting.  Indian culture is one of my favorites, especially to bring to a fantasy world.  I get very tired of the medieval chivalric cultures, and Indian, Middle Eastern, and Chinese influences are so much fun to bring in!

That aside, I just wanted to point something out.  I've talked to a good deal of Hindus who thought of their religion as being monotheistic.  They see all of their "gods" as being different aspects of the same greater being.  There is no way that this greater being can be depicted in such a way that we can comprehend him, so he is depicted multiple times and in multiple ways.

That's just one thought.

That's pretty much Snargash's description of the Brahman. I might be very mistaken on this, but one step further is that the Brahman itself is the fundamentally limited understanding of an ultimately limitless force/being.

By the way, I read this thread last night, and I think it influenced a dream I had, which in turn inspired me to try writing a poem. I have no clue if I'll ever finish the poem, and I'm not really sure if it's going to have more of an Indian tone or Arabian tone, but I'll try to post it in The Crossroads if I ever get the chance.

Quote from: Phoenix

Quote from: IshmaylThanks for all these great responses guys, I'm getting a nice little writeup here on this culture.  Kishar, I would love for you to send me a bunch of pictures!

Did you just refer to me by my setting name? I'm glad to see my work properly attributed...

Heh... whoops! :)

you also might want to keep in mind the debate over wehether or not the aryan invasion took place.