• Welcome to The Campaign Builder's Guild.
 

Thoughts on Pathfinder?

Started by Epic Meepo, March 25, 2008, 12:24:10 AM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1
User actions

Epic Meepo

March 25, 2008, 12:24:10 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Jaerc
So, is anyone else following the development of the Pathfinder RPG over on the Paizo boards?

It's not exactly community campaign building, but it is community playtesting of a (sort of) new RPG system. And by a fairly major publisher, no less. So I'm guessing at least a few folks here might be interested in such a thing. Am I right?
The Unfinished World campaign setting
Proud recipient of a Silver Dorito Award.
Unless noted otherwise, this post contains no Open Game Content.
[spoiler=OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a]OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a
The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.

1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.

2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.

3.Offer and Acceptance: By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.

4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.

5.Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.

6.Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder's name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.

7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.

8. Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.

9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.

10 Copy of this License: You MUST include a copy of this License with every copy of the Open Game Content You Distribute.

11. Use of Contributor Credits: You may not market or advertise the Open Game Content using the name of any Contributor unless You have written permission from the Contributor to do so.

12 Inability to Comply: If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Open Game Content due to statute, judicial order, or governmental regulation then You may not Use any Open Game Material so affected.

13 Termination: This License will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with all terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.

14 Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.

15 COPYRIGHT NOTICE
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Swords of Our Fathers Copyright 2003, The Game Mechanics.

Mutants & Masterminds Copyright 2002, Green Ronin Publishing.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

Epic Meepoââ,¬â,,¢s forum posts at www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2007, E.W. Morton.

Cebexia, Tapestry of the Gods Copyright 2006-2007, the Campaign Builder's Guild.[/spoiler]

Xeviat

#1
March 25, 2008, 12:49:28 AM
I took a look at the playtest PDF. This would have totally been my thing 2 years ago, but there's so many things they aren't fixing that 4E is in my opinion that I'm just not going to deal with it.

Their grapple fix was terrible. Their half-orc buff was not enough (especially when it is side by side with their new half-elf). Saves are still lopsided ... I'm glad someone's keeping 3E alive for those who don't want to like 4E, but I'm not one of them.

I don't want to share my opinions on their boards because I've heard that 4E fans are getting booed off the boards.
Endless Horizons: Action and adventure set in a grand world ripe for exploration.

Proud recipient of the Silver Tortoise Award for extra Krunchyness.

Hibou

#2
March 25, 2008, 02:13:02 AM
They're getting booed off everywhere. I've heard a lot about how ridiculous Pathfinder really is, and I for one am not really all that interested. Hell, if I had access to them, I'd pick up some REALLY old school stuff from the late 70's (assuming people still were interested in playing), start up a campaign, and never pay attention to this new edition nonsense again. It's not the rules, it's the sluggish transition due to everybody thinking they've got better ideas and/or completely boycotting the new edition just because they can't have their fighter3/wizard3/spellsword1/abjurant champion1/class x 5/class y 2/class z 4.

That being said, 4e looks pretty awesome. Pathfinder is just awful - I've had a friend list off the changes... and they just made things worse (as in overpowered) in some areas and worse (as in underpowered) in others. Just look at the new Power Attack - as if melee characters in general didn't suck enough.
[spoiler=GitHub]https://github.com/threexc[/spoiler]

Neubert

#3
March 25, 2008, 03:14:11 AM
I agree. I didn't look at Pathfinder as closely as you, but up till now, I like what I have heard about 4E.
If what I just wrote didn't make sense, just ask. Though it probably doesn't make any sense to me either. :P

Elemental_Elf

#4
April 15, 2008, 01:25:34 PM
I actually liked the Pathfinder changes...

Of course, I've never really loved the mechanics of 3.x, so any reputable changes are good in my opinion.

I love the way they changed the Half-Elf, very nice fix. Granted some of the other changes are 'meh' or ok at best, we have to remember that this is an Alpha Release, which means there will *always* be things that need to be fixed.

As for 4e, I was excited about it up until I heard about the GSL... and wotc's current 'vetting' of the whole OGL policy.

Xeviat

#5
April 15, 2008, 01:46:00 PM
It really isn't WotC 'vetting' the OGL policy. The word is that  it's Hasbro's legal department. This could be corporate doublespeak, but I like to take people by their word.
Endless Horizons: Action and adventure set in a grand world ripe for exploration.

Proud recipient of the Silver Tortoise Award for extra Krunchyness.

brainface

#6
April 15, 2008, 01:56:02 PM
Can't say I really care--it looked to me like too few changes from 3.5 to really bother using. I mean any fix to grapple might be worth stealing, but other than that? meh.
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire

Epic Meepo

#7
April 15, 2008, 04:27:03 PM
Quote from: Elemental_ElfAs for 4e, I was excited about it up until I heard about the GSL...
Same here. My favorite part of 3.x was the freedom to reprint content from the SRD. I've had great (if sporadic) fun collaborating with fantasy artists to publish amateur pdf sourcebooks. But you can't (legally) publish amateur sourcebooks for the new rules; at least, not if you want to distribute them. So that right there kills much of the fun I was having with D&D.

For me, OGC and nostalgia for past D&D products are the only real attachments I have to the D&D brand name. Lacking those, I have no real motivation to seek out Fourth Edition. In fact, I see a new edition of the archaic class-based system like a new version of the VCR. If it doesn't let me record and it doesn't play my old tapes, I'm just going to skip it and buy a DVD player.
The Unfinished World campaign setting
Proud recipient of a Silver Dorito Award.
Unless noted otherwise, this post contains no Open Game Content.
[spoiler=OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a]OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a
The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.

1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.

2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.

3.Offer and Acceptance: By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.

4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.

5.Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.

6.Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder's name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.

7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.

8. Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.

9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.

10 Copy of this License: You MUST include a copy of this License with every copy of the Open Game Content You Distribute.

11. Use of Contributor Credits: You may not market or advertise the Open Game Content using the name of any Contributor unless You have written permission from the Contributor to do so.

12 Inability to Comply: If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Open Game Content due to statute, judicial order, or governmental regulation then You may not Use any Open Game Material so affected.

13 Termination: This License will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with all terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.

14 Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.

15 COPYRIGHT NOTICE
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Swords of Our Fathers Copyright 2003, The Game Mechanics.

Mutants & Masterminds Copyright 2002, Green Ronin Publishing.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

Epic Meepoââ,¬â,,¢s forum posts at www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2007, E.W. Morton.

Cebexia, Tapestry of the Gods Copyright 2006-2007, the Campaign Builder's Guild.[/spoiler]

Tangential

#8
April 16, 2008, 11:29:09 AM
Actually I love some of Paizo's mechanics, and while I will definitely be buying 4e, that doesn't necessarily mean I will stop playing 3.5 anymore than it would mean I would stop playing WoD. So I view Pathfinder with a critical eye.

It's a major step to "divide the community" in the way they are aiming to, but whether this step is for good or ill only time will tell.

Now down to the crunch. I really really like the turning mechanic. It's simple, intuitive, and makes it worth it at any point in the game. I like the ideas they present regarding wizards spells. And I think for the most part (and yes this is important to me) the art is phenomenal.

The very best part of this situation is actually a tie as I see it. First off, if you think the half-orc sucks, you can tell Paizo that right now, and if enough people share your opinion things will change in time for Beta. Secondly, you can like both Pathfinder and 4e; what a great time to game in, when two excellent games are being produced and widely hyped.
Settings I\'ve Designed: Mandria, Veil, Nordgard, Earyhuza, Yrcacia, Twin Lands<br /><br />Settings I\'ve Developed: Danthos, the Aspects Cosmos, Solus, Cyrillia, DIcefreaks\' Great Wheel, Genesis, Illios, Vale, Golarion, Untime, Meta-Earth, Lands of Rhyme
Print
Go Up Pages1
User actions