Astrological Alignment

Epic Meepo · May 03, 2006, 02:40:02 PM

The content of this post is Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d).

The following is a rough work-up of a variant alignment system that I'm considering using in a setting I'm working on. Do you think it is worth developing further, or is making alignment astrological instead of moral just too weird?

Astrological Alignment

A creature's alignment has nothing to do with its moral outlook. Instead, it reflects the position - the "alignment" - of the stars and the planets at the moment of the creature's birth. Some astrological signs are universally recognized as being good, others as being evil. Some are chaotic, others are lawful. Many are neutral. Creatures born under an astrological sign of a given alignment have that same alignment, and are affected by spells and effects accordingly.

For example, a creature born under a lawful good astrological sign counts as lawful good for the purpose of spells and effects, regardless of its morality. That lawful good character might be heroic, villainous, or anything in-between, because there is no such thing as "violating" the lawful good alignment. The same is true of any alignment.

While astrologers like to describe behaviors that are typical for creatures of each given alignment - indeed the astrological alignments are named for the moral character of the deeds sometimes associated with them - these vague trends are not strict rules. Except in the case of unwanted compulsion effects, a creature's behavior is not determined by its alignment, and vice versa. Alignment simply measures the ways in which certain effects interact with a creature, as determined by the heavens at the moment of that creature's birth.

Alignment-Based Requirements: Many classes, cleric domains, and other game elements have alignment-based requirements. These requirements do not measure the "worthiness" of a character in any way, instead measuring the fate that the cosmos has in store for a character. The character may or may not have a personality that matches the paths that the circumstances have laid at his feet.

Sometimes, a character who wants nothing more than an peaceful, orderly life is cursed with the fiery soul of a raging barbarian. Other times, a hero who cannot master the ways of the paladin discovers that he has an aptitude for abilities that he finds morally repugnant. Just as often, a character's alignment perfectly matches his moral outlook, allowing him to pursue avenues of advancement that fit his demeanor without being tempted by other, less-desirable paths.

Alignment Descriptors: Some spells and similar effects are associated with various astrological alignments. Using a spell, power, or effect that has an alignment descriptor counts as an action of that alignment. (Actions other than these do not counts as actions of any alignment.) Performing an action that has an alignment does not affect the alignment of the creature performing that action, but it may violate codes of conduct that prohibit actions of particular alignments.

For example, a paladin who casts a spell with the evil descriptor has performed an evil act; though he remains lawful good, he has nonetheless violated his code of conduct. A paladin who willingly burns an innocent creature at the stake, on the other hand, has not violated his code of conduct, because that action, while morally evil, does not count as an "evil act" for rules purposes because moral evil has nothing to do with an evil astrological alignment.

Alignment Subtypes: Some creatures - those with alignment subtypes - have stronger connections to the astrological alignments than others. Unless it is altered by a magical or psionic effect, such a creature's alignment always matches its alignment subtype, even if the creature was not born under a different astrological sign. Except in rare cases, a creature with an alignment subtype always has a moral outlook that corresponds to the name of its alignment subtype.

Changing Alignment: Normally, a creature's behavior cannot cause its a change in its alignment. However, some magical and psionic effects exist that can make such a change, essentially doing so by overriding the influence of the stars. For example, an atonement spell can change a willing creature's alignment. However, doing so does not also change the creature's moral outlook; the creature is merely "atoning" for the original sin of being born under an undesireable astrological sign.

There also exist some compulsions that force a creature to adopt a new alignment against its will. When a creature is forced to adopt an alignment in this way, the creature's behavior actually does change to match the moral outlook that corresponds to the name of its astrological alignment. This change in behavior is an additional effect of the compulsion that changed the creature's alignment against its will, not an inherent property of the creature's newly aquired alignment.

Soup Nazi · May 03, 2006, 03:33:56 PM

OMG! This is so simple and yet it solves so many problems! I would have removed alignment eons ago, if I just had figured something like this out. Post the rest please. I'm going to use this in Sulos.

Epic Meepo · May 03, 2006, 05:03:27 PM

I'm glad you like it, and I feel honored that you'll be using it in Sulos. Astrological alignment is pretty straightfoward (you've got most of what you need in the OP), but I'll get to work on the more complicated details (things like alignment-based requirements, alignment subtypes, and the such).

Soup Nazi · May 03, 2006, 05:56:36 PM

Here's a little something Xathan and I worked out that functions along similar lines. Alignment fluctuates from month to month as the waxing and waning of the planes influences the world in subtle ways. People have "alignment" based upon the planar alignment during the time of their birth.

We created a calendar with 360 days, nine months, and a rotating alignment configuration. The months have 40 days each divided into four 10 day "cycles." I also made sure to note seasonal changes.

We tied the seasons to the law/chaos axis. The harsh weather of winter is chaotic and unpredictable, but during the summer the weather is mild and consistent.

We may have the planar alignments effect spell-casting as well. For example in chaotic months spells from the chaos domain function at +1 caster level, but spells from the law domain function at -1 caster level. We're not 100% sure if we will use this option, but it's something that was mentioned in passing.

Xathan may be using constellations as well, but I don't think I will be. I think the pull of the planes is enough fo me.

The Calendar

Lerast
40 days Chaotic
40 days Neutral

Sunest
20 days Chaotic
20 days Neutral
40 days Evil

Monevan
40 days Neutral
40 days Good

Xeriat
40 days Lawful
40 days Neutral

Innolus
40 days Lawful
40 days Evil

Suval
40 days Lawful
40 days Good

Anilalon
40 days Neutral
40 days Neutral

Meninar
20 days Neutral
20 days Chaotic
40 days Evil

Raemedir
40 days Chaotic
40 days Good

Other Info:

Summer 4/16 through 6/25 (90 days)
Fall 6/26 through 8/35 (90 days)
Winter 8/36 through 2/5 (90 days)
Spring 2/6 through 4/15 (90 days)

40 days of every alignment in a repeating cycle
10 Days in a Cycle
4 Cycles in a Month
9 Months in a Year

Edit:Thanks Eric; this planar alignment idea kicks royal behind!

Epic Meepo · May 03, 2006, 06:53:04 PM

Cool. Though I'm not going to include specific alignment-to-calendar associations in the OP, I encourage anyone who wants to use astroligcal alignment to come up with an original scheme to fit the flavor of their own campaign world. It could serve to add an extra level of detail to any world's calendar, I'm sure.

Epic Meepo · May 03, 2006, 07:49:05 PM

I've just added new rules to the OP. These will probably be a little more controversion than the overall concept, since they invovle the paladin code of conduct, so feel free to offer comments or feedback, so that I may hone them to perfection.

Ishmayl-Retired · May 03, 2006, 08:08:07 PM

This is looking very good Meeps. It seems so simple, just like the nasty man said, but it completely answers the question of how to deal with alignment-based spells and abilities without having actual alignment in the campaign.

Túrin · May 04, 2006, 05:55:00 AM

Very good idea! Thumbs up! This is a very good way to remove the idea behind alignment without having to tie up each individual loose end in the rules. I would like to point out that Vaalingrade (sp?) also posted a system with the same intention (though the system itself was completely different) on the WotC-boards recently.
Túrin

Numinous · May 04, 2006, 08:09:11 AM

I hate to differ with popular opinion here, but I must say that I do dislike this system(referring to OP). Although many people may adopt it, and most everyone seems enthusiastic about it, I just won't use it. Although the current D&D alignment system has issues, a lot of them can be prevented with a good DM, and a little bit of help from any of various articles found strewn over the internet.

I dislike how alignment is determined by fate, and this system is largely screaming to be a pain. Every PC would choose his own alignment anyway, making it match his moral views. And if the DM made peasants alignment Evil, the player's would kill on sight. I realize that the system could be explained, but old habits die hard. Even if the players began to understand how the system worked, this system would greatly reduce the effectiveness of such spells as detect evil or protection from evil as alignment has no bearing upon the behavior of it's recipients.

No offense to the OP, or anyone else here, but I do think this system is more trouble than it's worth, at least for me.

Soup Nazi · May 04, 2006, 12:35:06 PM

I added a much more detailed and expanded calendar to Sulos in the history spoiler. There's a link in my sig.

CYMRO · May 04, 2006, 12:45:28 PM

Quote from: Natural 20I hate to differ with popular opinion here, but I must say that I do dislike this system(referring to OP). Although many people may adopt it, and most everyone seems enthusiastic about it, I just won't use it. Although the current D&D alignment system has issues, a lot of them can be prevented with a good DM, and a little bit of help from any of various articles found strewn over the internet.

I dislike how alignment is determined by fate, and this system is largely screaming to be a pain. Every PC would choose his own alignment anyway, making it match his moral views. And if the DM made peasants alignment Evil, the player's would kill on sight. I realize that the system could be explained, but old habits die hard. Even if the players began to understand how the system worked, this system would greatly reduce the effectiveness of such spells as detect evil or protection from evil as alignment has no bearing upon the behavior of it's recipients.

No offense to the OP, or anyone else here, but I do think this system is more trouble than it's worth, at least for me.

True. If being evil is just an astrological lottery, then detect evil becomes untenable.

Soup Nazi · May 04, 2006, 01:47:56 PM

What the astrological alignment system does is enable you to divorce the restrictions of alignment as little or as much as you desire from the game. You can have 95% of people born under the lawful good alignment act lawful good, but it won't force you to make alignment central to your character.

For example, a character who is alstrologically aligned can make decisions and choices that his alignment might otherwise prohibit, without forcing the DM to enforce his player's alignment, for the good of the game. Sometimes a lawful good person won't act in a manner that would be considered lawful good, and that is just human nature; people are nut cut and dry, but alignment is.

Many of us wish alignment did not exist at all in our games, but it is so central to the mechanics of D&D, that removing it causes huge issues. Astrological alignment enables you to pay lip service to the alignment mechanic without having a great impact upon your characters and NPCs.

Yes sometimes detect evil will fail you. A good person will sometimes do evil things, and an evil person may want to put their devious past behind them, and the spell used to detect their alignment will (in these cases) send you mixed signals. That is not a problem in my eyes (though it may be for other people). That's going to cause role-playing situations...

For those who like alignment and it's effect on the game, this system will seem pointless, and it is if you actually enjoying mediating alignment issues. I do not like to waste time defining what a character can and cannot do within the boundaries of his alignment. I already let my players choose their own actions, and sometimes they act on impulse rather than thinking things through, and weighing the effects they will have on their alignment. Well now I won't even worry about it. I'm using this system because it fits the style of game I already run.

CYMRO · May 04, 2006, 02:12:57 PM

QuoteMany of us wish alignment did not exist at all in our games, but it is so central to the mechanics of D&D, that removing it causes huge issues.

Removing alignment is actually quite easy. You just do it. Detect/ protection spells become enemy or situationally specific. Classes that require alignments just list prohibited actions.

Adding an alignment system that allows you to act against the alignment is just the same, though more complicated, as ignoring such issues in the first place.

Xathan · May 04, 2006, 02:31:56 PM

Quote from: CYMRO
QuoteMany of us wish alignment did not exist at all in our games, but it is so central to the mechanics of D&D, that removing it causes huge issues.

Removing alignment is actually quite easy. You just do it. Detect/ protection spells become enemy or situationally specific. Classes that require alignments just list prohibited actions.

Adding an alignment system that allows you to act against the alignment is just the same, though more complicated, as ignoring such issues in the first place.

So what does detect evil do? What does detect law do? or chaos or good? How does protection from Evil fuction? What creatures can you ward with antipathy? Who do you smite with smite evil? What creatures can you apply the half-fiendish template to? What creatures can be summoned by Good clerics? evil clerics? neutral clerics?

The list goes on and on. Meep's system provides an elegant answer to these questions based off of astrological sign: How would you answer these questions?

CYMRO · May 04, 2006, 03:21:34 PM

QuoteSo what does detect evil do? What does detect law do? or chaos or good? How does protection from Evil fuction? What creatures can you ward with antipathy? Who do you smite with smite evil? What creatures can you apply the half-fiendish template to? What creatures can be summoned by Good clerics? evil clerics? neutral clerics?

Detect [whatever] becomes detect hostility or detect enemies. Same for protection or smite. they become situational spells, based on need or specific pc background.

You apply alignment specific templates according to actions or predetermined criteria(sacrificing kittens allows template X).

Clerics summon creatures associated with their deity/cause.

QuoteThe list goes on and on. Meep's system provides an elegant answer to these questions based off of astrological sign: How would you answer these questions?

Elegant in that it allows LG characters to murder puppies if it fits their crusading mentality?

QuoteSometimes a lawful good person won't act in a manner that would be considered lawful good, and that is just human nature; people are nut cut and dry, but alignment is.

This is just a handy excuse to ignore alignment repercussions, which is all I see this astrological system as. It is eating your cake and having it, too.

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Astrological Alignment

Epic Meepo

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Epic Meepo

Epic Meepo

Ishmayl-Retired

Túrin

Numinous

Soup Nazi

CYMRO

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CYMRO

Xathan

CYMRO