The Campaign Builder's Guild

I've been noticing that quite a lot of you have either completed or been working on a complex calendar system, and that got me thinking. Now, this is a general discussion about detail vs. ease-of-use, but as i feel calendars are one of the most obvious examples of this issue I will be using them as an example.

Now, this only applies to settings intended for actual RPG use, but don't complex calendars take more from the game than they give? I was personally tired with never being able to keep track of time in fictional worlds which is the reason i made a very simple system for my own setting (12 months of 5 weeks of 6 days + 5 "end-days").

So my question, what do you feel you get from a complex calendar (from a game perspective). You could argue that it creates a more credible world, but calendars, being a  relatively minor part of the entire world are rarely even noticed by the players who are supposed to benefit from the credibility. Isn't it better to just stick with the simple, giving the characters and yourself the necessary mental break from astrological calculations to actually concentrate on the world you have created?

This isn't necessarily my final opinion, just my initial thoughts on the matter, so feel free to agree or disagree (and please do it in writing).

Let the debate begin. (and feel free to add other examples for better or worse)

Your calendar sounds very much like my own.  I specifically went with "simple and relatively familiar."

370 days in a year
12 months of 30 days each.
5 weeks of 6 days each.

Every six months, there is a five day inter-month "holiday" for Summer's Soul, and Winter's Heart.

This is called the Jordunian Calendar.

Different kingdoms have different holidays throughout the year, but this calendar was adopted as "official" about seven hundred fifty years ago by the then-emperor of Tlek, Agravar Jordun, when Tlek was controlling a very large portion of the continent.  Riddesgaard took use of the calendar as well (though their yearly calendar goes back further), and the Laons did as well, though they kept their own names for the months.  The sirish and sydhi use the calendar while dealing with humans, but otherwise use the same calendar they've been using for many hundreds of years.  Myari and trakloks have adopted the calendar in recent years as well.

I went with a different style, but still pretty basic.

362 days in a year
2 months of 180 days each
9 weeks of 20 days each

I would argue that my calendar is a major part of the world. However, my calender is a trade calender for the worlds mercantilism (which forms a massive part of its inter-city relations). Furthermore it marks important dates that do indeed affect most potential players.

Unlike everything else I seem to do, the Westic Calendar is pretty simple.  A debasement of the Silverwood timekeping, the Westic year is 6 months (goesi)of 60 days, plus 5 middle (in between ) days.  The weeks are set up in 8 day hawaaks.

Well, I think calendar's are one area where ease-of-use should win out in most cases, unless you have a very compelling reason to do otherwise.

In Eschaton, I've established a lunar-solar calendar that sinks up with the Earth year pretty will. The month names are just derived from the Proto-Indo-European numbering system.

For Echoes of Dreams I may just go back to the Gregorian calendar.

For Eclipse, I haven't given it much thought, though I suppose each empire might use a different celestial calendar.

11 days in a week, one for each of the gods of light.
2 weeks in a month, one for each of the moons in the sky.
16 months in a year, one for each of the starsigns bright.
4 holidays in a year, one for each of the seasons gone by.
9 dark days in winter, one for each of the fallen gods.

For a total of 365 days. :D

My only issue is a linguistic one. The word "month" explicitely refers to the moon. If your months don't follow the moons anymore (like our calander doesn't, but that's because our moon isn't regular with the year), you've either got an irregular moon or you have a culture that's grown past its astrological roots (which is very possible).

But ridged symetry isn't always best; it doesn't feel organic. Take a momment to look at our calander and ask why.

Most of our months were named after gods, holidays, or numbers, but the original Latin names were numbers. Originally the days alternated 31, 30, 31, 30 ... but word has it that "August" originally had 29 days but when it was renamed after Augustus and it is said that he took 2 days from February (January and February were added in at the beginning, which is why september means 7, october means 8, november means 9, and december means 10).

So, one way you can make an organic calender is to figure out a nice ridgid calander and then make some changes based on big events.

Quote from: PhoenixFor Eclipse, I haven't given it much thought, though I suppose each empire might use a different celestial calendar.

It'd make a lot of sense if the solars used a solar calendar and the lunars used a lunar calendar. :D

Quote from: sparkletwist

Quote from: PhoenixFor Eclipse, I haven't given it much thought, though I suppose each empire might use a different celestial calendar.

Does it say anything about me as a DM that I would purposely switch those (and spend all sorts of time coming up with a logical reason, like the Solars were once lunars, or some such thing) just so I could see the players faces when I told them that. :-/

With my calender it isn't the "months" that focus on the moon, but the weeks. Technically the months in it are closer to what you would call seasons, and the weeks closer to months. However the best translated equivalent sets the large sections as the months and the smaller ones as weeks.

Quote from: Kapn XeviatMy only issue is a linguistic one. The word "month" explicitely refers to the moon. If your months don't follow the moons anymore (like our calander doesn't, but that's because our moon isn't regular with the year), you've either got an irregular moon or you have a culture that's grown past its astrological roots (which is very possible).

But ridged symetry isn't always best; it doesn't feel organic. Take a momment to look at our calander and ask why.

Most of our months were named after gods, holidays, or numbers, but the original Latin names were numbers. Originally the days alternated 31, 30, 31, 30 ... but word has it that "August" originally had 29 days but when it was renamed after Augustus and it is said that he took 2 days from February (January and February were added in at the beginning, which is why september means 7, october means 8, november means 9, and december means 10).

So, one way you can make an organic calender is to figure out a nice ridgid calander and then make some changes based on big events.

While you're right in general, "organic" (aka inhomogenous) calendars bring up the issue Crippled Cow mentioned in the first post.

DM: "You travel through the desert for 40 days before finally reaching your destination."
Player: "And what month is it?"
DM: "Why you want to know?"
Player: "Remember the magic flask you gave us. It works once per month!"
DM: "Uhh... Tuldar, I think."
Player: "No, that can't be. We took off on Gher 22nd, Tuldar has 30 days. That means that we can't possibly still be in Tuldar. We must be in Dilsan, perhaps Dilsan 2nd or Dilsan 3rd."
DM: "Yeah, whatever."

And to be honest, our real-world calendar feels like something a bunch of 4 year olds have thrown together. It's a whole senseless mess. :-/

Ra, what else are you going to do for a world with a 365.24 day revolution, a 24 hour rotation, and a 29.5 day lunar phase? I'll admit that the February should be 30 days and the months can go 31, 30, 31, 30 ... and then have leap year be at the end ...

Quote from: Kapn XeviatRa, what else are you going to do for a world with a 365.24 day revolution, a 24 hour rotation, and a 29.5 day lunar phase? [...]

24 hours/day.
10 days/week.
3 weeks/month.
12 months/year.
= 360 days + 5 holidays + 1/4 years an extra holiday.

Done. You cannot follow both the solar and the lunar cycle. You have to take one and stick with it. I did prefer the solar cycle.

Well, the leap year rules are a bit more complicated than "once every 4th year", so that would add a bit more complexity to it.
But then again, this post wasn't really an attempt to get a list on possible calendars, but rather an attempt to start a discussion on whether it was worth it to make a complex calendar, or some other complex addition that the players are probably never really going to pay attention to. Of course, most of you guys seem to use quite simple systems, so this discussion might not be necessary, but anyway.

To answer the main question, a complex calendar is only going to be useful to your group if they're heavy imersion roleplayers. I'm going to make a print-out for my settings calendar for my Storydriven game, because it will be an issue.