The Campaign Builder's Guild

RESERVED 21

Posting resumed! /me rings the bell

Updates to the Necromancy subsection of the Magic post - our friend Mezerous explains a few things.

Another minor update, found beneath the main Magic post. Started developing details on specific regions of Alvanenia, as you can see under Chanelce in the Alvanenia post. I hope to have a draft of the 10L8I system soon.

Witchrot and Goblin added to the Monsters section, Goblin in the second post.

Alright, since I didn't see anything about not posting in this thread and all the reserved posts, I'll post here. If I'm blind and missed it, I'll PM a mod to delete my post and you have my apologies.

First it seems that the concept of duality or Good Vs Evil is quite present as you mentioned. The Alpha and Omega dragons are a pleasant variation of this.

The cosmology of Haveneast is really fleshed out, with many different layers. However it seems that these layers only go in one direction, from Normal (Haveneast) getting progressively darker and darker. Are there no better realms? Seems contradictory to the duality of the setting. The only thing I seen that could be constituted as *good* were the Lands of Light, but as they're Worlds of Madness, seems like *good* isn't the right word for them. Also it could be I'm just misinterpreting the word Light, which is classically used to denote Goodness.

Justahn seems like a very christ like figure to me, not sure if that was intentional or not.

Now is the beginning with The Book of Alhl universally accepted? Or just by the Justahnian faiths?

For the Aphorandus, how do they plan to hold the world at ransom? Also is there a point to their end gold? Aside form perhaps control of the world of unimaginable wealth?

The Proticava are nice, the demons not being good or evil but dual aspects is a good foil to Justaism.

The Angels Theater was a truly fitting part of The Nightmare I found. It seemed to just fit perfectly.

The distinction of Demon and Daemon adds a level of complexity to the Nightmare, but how do the Daemons fit into other religions? They seem to embody the Proticava version of Demons almost, but not that nice.

For the magic, finally somebody has both Demonology AND Angelology, it seems that if you study demons, no one studies angels, makes no sense. Nicely done. Paradigmancy seems fairly unique, sort of the ultimate embodiment of the mathematical and studious nature of the way magic is in Haveneast.

[blockquote=Llum]Alright, since I didn't see anything about not posting in this thread and all the reserved posts, I'll post here. If I'm blind and missed it, I'll PM a mod to delete my post and you have my apologies.
[/blockquote]

Posting here is fine, the posts I have reserved should be more room than I'll ever need. :D

QuoteFirst it seems that the concept of duality or Good Vs Evil is quite present as you mentioned. The Alpha and Omega dragons are a pleasant variation of this.

This is true, but it's important to know that in that battle, good is secretly losing.

 

QuoteThe cosmology of Haveneast is really fleshed out, with many different layers. However it seems that these layers only go in one direction, from Normal (Haveneast) getting progressively darker and darker. Are there no better realms? Seems contradictory to the duality of the setting. The only thing I seen that could be constituted as *good* were the Lands of Light, but as they're Worlds of Madness, seems like *good* isn't the right word for them. Also it could be I'm just misinterpreting the word Light, which is classically used to denote Goodness.

Haveneast is, ideally, the "light". It may be that there is something on the other end of the spectrum from The Nightmare (and indeed, there are cults I have yet to detail that believe in this), but The Nightmare and Haveneast, their duality and their constant battle for psychological ground, is the focus.

As for specific areas of "good", even the Nightmare possesses a few safe havens here and there, although they are small and vastly outnumbered by realms of evil, confusion, and madness. You're right in being unsure about the use of "light" in that area of the cosmology, as these twenty-four worlds are actually a sequence of realms that vary in the intensity of visibility - at one end, you have The Light, which is so bright that everything is painful to view and not a shadow is to be found, and at the other you have The Dark, which is so pitch black that the only thing you can see is what your eyes make you believe you're seeing.

 

QuoteJustahn seems like a very Christ like figure to me, not sure if that was intentional or not.

Definitely intentional. I wanted a very Christian religion with a few changes here and there. When I started developing Haveneast it actually didn't look like it could function without one. Its predecessor Vilydunn also has a similar religion.

 

QuoteNow is the beginning with The Book of Alhl universally accepted? Or just by the Justahnian faiths?

Mainly variants of Justaism and a few smaller Pagan forms of worship, though there are some Justaic faiths that don't adhere to it. It has a lot of elements that can come from either side, particularly with the angels - they've been around much longer than Justaism has.

 

QuoteFor the Aphorandus, how do they plan to hold the world at ransom? Also is there a point to their end gold? Aside form perhaps control of the world of unimaginable wealth?

They work on multiple levels, chipping away at the world. It's actually an organization designed based on what I imagined an Illuminati-type group to be in a pseudo-medieval world. The group is obviously run by someone (or something) whose intelligence and power are beyond most mortals. The goal of "rule by wealth" might be more appropriately be called a timocratic-plutocratic society, rule by the few, or what have you - elitism and racism gone bad. Maybe they could be likened to a sort of "Universal Nazi" cult, where the most intelligent, physically capable, influential people should rule and reproduce freely while all others are slaves to production and servitude. The Aphorandus will take the world by slowly undermining and eliminating any opponents that stand in their way, which will just as often be concepts, technologies, or social changes as they will be individual people.

Of course, the cult is small enough and subtle enough that no one really notices. Most people don't even know they exist.

 

QuoteThe Proticava are nice, the demons not being good or evil but dual aspects is a good foil to Justaism.

Yeah, I was hoping they would work out well in that regard. I think I was reading up on some Greek mythology, or maybe something older, or the origin of the word Demon/Daemon when I started writing the Proticava up.

 

QuoteThe Angels Theater was a truly fitting part of The Nightmare I found. It seemed to just fit perfectly.

Indeed. Definitely one of the more important locales on The Nightmare's side of the curtain.

 

QuoteThe distinction of Demon and Daemon adds a level of complexity to the Nightmare, but how do the Daemons fit into other religions? They seem to embody the Proticava version of Demons almost, but not that nice.

Generally they are given different terms and/or different origin stories, but the concept of a fallen angel is not Justaism-specific so other religions (specifically major pagan worship) does follow more-or-less the same story.

QuoteFor the magic, finally somebody has both Demonology AND Angelology, it seems that if you study demons, no one studies angels, makes no sense. Nicely done. Paradigmancy seems fairly unique, sort of the ultimate embodiment of the mathematical and studious nature of the way magic is in Haveneast.

I never could understand that either. Paradigmancy is one of the "Big Three" of the magical forms, with good reason - it's damn powerful. It's dangerous to meet anyone who wields it.

Thanks for your post. :D

Finally added the Nightmare Myrenia map to the first post - now you can see the entire continent's Nightmare reflection.

QuoteFor the magic, finally somebody has both Demonology AND Angelology, it seems that if you study demons, no one studies angels, makes no sense.

I think that's an interesting point and potentially a very valid one, but perhaps I can supply some possible reasons why the tendency lies towards Demonology rather than Angelology as I see it...

(1) Demons/Angels usually riff off a vaguely Christian pseudo-dualism; (2) In that theology, being concerned with earthly power or physical power - most forms of "magic" - is usually (not always, or not in all of the theology's myriad forms) considered sinful.  There is no such thing as a "holy sorcerer" because such an individual should concern themselves entirely with the spiritual, the next life, rather than with affecting the physical world around them.  Doing so betrays a fixation on selfish physical appetite and hunger for power - its hubristic, its "cheating."  Therefore, demons are much more likely to supply a magic-user with power than an angel, because they're the corrupt ones who want to use the physical realm to tempt/enslave mortals.

I'm not saying that whole system is always present in fantasy worlds or whatnot; I'm just saying that its kind of there in the background, that whole Faust idea and that whole system of redemption/damnation and physical/spiritual, whenever there are demons running around.  I know that Angelology has its real-world adherents, but I think it looms less visibly in the collective imagination, partly because (3) Demons are more fun and interesting most of the time because everyone likes monsters - its usually more fun to describe demons than angels (not always... see Knife's Edge, Dystopia, and this very setting).

Quote from: Steerpike

QuoteFor the magic, finally somebody has both Demonology AND Angelology, it seems that if you study demons, no one studies angels, makes no sense.

I think that's an interesting point and potentially a very valid one, but perhaps I can supply some possible reasons why the tendency lies towards Demonology rather than Angelology as I see it...

(1) Demons/Angels usually riff off a vaguely Christian pseudo-dualism; (2) In that theology, being concerned with earthly power or physical power - most forms of "magic" - is usually (not always, or not in all of the theology's myriad forms) considered sinful.  There is no such thing as a "holy sorcerer" because such an individual should concern themselves entirely with the spiritual, the next life, rather than with affecting the physical world around them.  Doing so betrays a fixation on selfish physical appetite and hunger for power - its hubristic, its "cheating."  Therefore, demons are much more likely to supply a magic-user with power than an angel, because they're the corrupt ones who want to use the physical realm to tempt/enslave mortals.

I'm not saying that whole system is always present in fantasy worlds or whatnot; I'm just saying that its kind of there in the background, that whole Faust idea and that whole system of redemption/damnation and physical/spiritual, whenever there are demons running around.  I know that Angelology has its real-world adherents, but I think it looms less visibly in the collective imagination, partly because (3) Demons are more fun and interesting most of the time because everyone likes monsters - its usually more fun to describe demons than angels (not always... see Knife's Edge, Dystopia, and this very setting).

A valid point, and that's part of the beauty of Haveneast's Angelology - even though it's "holy" magic a lot of religious sects view it as just as impure and evil as raising the dead.

Reboot coming soon. There'll probably be a new, altered map and some drastic modifications to different factions and creatures - and a lot more new creatures, too.

I can't believe it's been over two years since I worked on this.