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... As it is in Heaven (help plz)

Started by Captain Obvious, May 18, 2006, 01:38:42 PM

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Captain Obvious

May 18, 2006, 01:38:42 PM Last Edit: May 18, 2006, 07:55:56 PM by supadupaman
Just throwing up some ideas for a CS I had a little while ago in the hopes of getting some new ideas, and working out some of the gaps (who am i kidding, it's almost all gaps).

The basic premise is a fairly real-world setting of almost entirely different cultures of humans. Then, hiding on the fringes are all of the assorted gods, mythological creatures and bogeymen of the real world. So, assuming the character start in the Europe or North America type place there would be the single big monotheistic church (albeit with many subsets and rifts), but there will actually be angels and devils all around the place if you know how to find them. In the same vein, there are the assorted bogeymen and folk-tale creatures (Irish pixies and goblins, anyone?), and the religions and creatures would vary based on where in the world you go (like Asian pantheons and demons etc if you go to the oriental area of the world).

The original plan was to have this set in the actual world in the present-time, but both of these are being re-thought. The two current options for time are either present day, or back around the 1600's (Jacobean England roughly). Both of these time periods have a more advanced tech level (which I would like), and have a lot of possibility for conflict between tech and magic, and between the church and other/older magic. As for real world vs. something based off of it, the options as of now appear to be: accurate real-world but with the mythical things being real (probably won't use this since it requires a lot more historical accuracy, and also I don't want to get into the territory of possibly offending people by using their religions/cultures/historical features in a way they don't like), an alternate earth history with many of this things included and accounted for (I like this idea a lot more. Think like the Golden Compass, 1602, and Constantine worlds. Earth, but not quite our earth), a world that has countries and cultures that correspond to many of the ones in our world (like the Warhammer world), and finally something totally different.

At one point I was thinking of using the D20 modern rules, but â,¬' especially if I do the Jacobean-era version â,¬' Iâ,¬,,¢ll just use modified D&D rules since I already know them and have the books. Many of the core classes and Complete will stay in, and there will maybe be an Inventor and/or Scientist class. One of the most significant rules changes will be the removal of the usual magic system to be replaced with Shadow magic, Truename magic, Vestige magic (with different vestiges, though), Warlockism, probably some of the psionic classes, and possibly a modified version of the wizard, and a non-spellcasting druid-type class.

Other than these (and including these, too, I guess), the rest of the setting needs to be worked out, so any comments, suggestions and whatever else will be welcomed. Got a favorite piece of mythology, folklore, history or culture? Lemme hear it.

This thread will be used as the brainstorming thread until I have enough worked out to bother making an organized thread in the Homebrews section, at which point, this will become the discussion thread for the setting.

Off we go.
 :horse:
[spoiler=My Campaign Settings]
The Age of Kings: My main CS(Comments and Criticism welcomed)
Shadows of the Last Alliance: My PbP game\'s CS (Not much written here yet)
...As it is in Heaven: My newer CS (currently mostly just brainstorming)
Vorsatz: my newest setting.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Quotes]
\"We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, leaving only the memory of smoke and the presumption that once our eyes watered.\" -Samuel Beckett
\"Who am I lady? I\'m your worst nightmare. A pumpkin with a gun!\" -Merv Pumpkinhead
\"This whole Case is like a chocolate jigsaw puzzle: It\'s messy, it sticks to your fingers and you don\'t know whether to fit the peices together or just take a big bite.\" - Jack Leaderboard
"Pig's lips meet my lips,
Pig's Stomach meets my stomach,
A meeting of meats."
- Anonnymous hotdog haiku.[/spoiler]
My Unitarian Jihad Name is Brother Boot Knife of Forgiveness.
Instigator of the Weirdo Invasion! :weirdo:

!turtle Are you a member of the turtle club? You bet your boots I am!

Xathan

#1
May 19, 2006, 12:09:02 AM
I like the alternate history idea best: it allows you to have elements of familiarity but with some differences, and avoiding offending people is always a good thing when done in moderation. Plus, it allows you to smack history buff Players. I would do it the Jacobean era, as it is very hard to make base classes work with the modern world (plus sneak attack with guns gets just downright insane.)

I like the going back to mythological creatures. I look forward to your take on them culturally and mechanically. :)

More comments later, but it has alot of interesting potential right now.
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[/spoiler]

Senkennomei

#2
May 19, 2006, 04:58:29 PM
Hmm...well, I like the idea so far...personally I had a concept very similiar to this that you may want to consider:

Every creature's mind is, within itself, its own universe. However, when one's own idea within one's universe begins to multiply into the minds of others, the universes collide, giving rise to a rift in our dimension. This rift manifests itself as the idea, thus creating mythological creatures.

That aside, I would actually love to see the setting be more around the time of the Salem Witch Trials...whole lot of tall tales flying around in that era, I bet you could do a lot with that.
"If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it is that you can kill anyone." - Michael Corleone
My Gallery

Captain Obvious

#3
May 19, 2006, 11:59:15 PM
Yeah, i was thinking that alternate history Jacobean would be the best place to set it. Salem with trials coul;d be and interesting spot, but seeing as i'm doing an alternate history, not exact, these don't have to occur in the same time and place. Anywhere there is lots of nervous superstitious people, bad stuff will happen. Besides, the inquisition started up in the 1100's and didn't end until in the 1800's so there is also the posibility of dropping that in. Historically there was a lull in the 1600's between the roman and spanish inquisitions, but in a world where strange stuff is more common, the inquisition would likely be more prevalent.

more mechanics-wise:
i'm considering actually dropping the standard classes and using the generic ones with assorted prc possibilities, but i likely wont. many of the standard classes will be changed or removed though (specifically the non-archetypal ones like ranger, paladin, monk).

For some of the demons and angels, i want to link them to the seven sins and seven virtues. obviously, not all of the beings will get linked (just seven of the more powerful/more classical), but for the ones i am picking, i'm having trouble matching them up.

for demons so far i'm thinking (if i put them in a rough order of power = the greatness of the sin. from least to most.)
lust = succubus
gluttony = herzou (how is that spelt anyways?)
greed = vrock
sloth = nalfeshnee
wrath = glabrezu
envy = marilith
pride = balor

or (if i match them by what i think matches best)
lust = succubus
gluttony = herzou
greed = glabrezu
sloth = nalfeshnee
wrath = balor
envy = vrock
pride = marilith

opinions on this would help (also, are there any others i should use instead of the 7 ta'nari?)

also, any thoughts of which celestials (preferably archons, but could be devas, planetars and solars as well (i kind of want to have those last three make up the angelic host though). name any you can think of since i have most of the books they are in) i should use to match with these? also, there seem to be many lists of virtues and i'm not sure which ones to use (i want to keep seven though). these virtues are in order of greatness as well
chastity = lantern archon?
moderation = ?
generosity/vigilance = hound archon?
zeal = sword archon?
meekness/composure = throne archon?
charity = astral deva?
humility = planetar?

the other assorted good and evil outsiders could be members of the Host and the Legion, or other denizens of heaven and hell. or they could be from other pantheons of creatures. or something else.
Any ideas?

eladrin and guardinal will likely be either folkloric creatures or perhaps from one of the assorted mythical lands of Faerie or somesuch.

Well, this has been a fairly scattered post, but let me know what you make of it.
[spoiler=My Campaign Settings]
The Age of Kings: My main CS(Comments and Criticism welcomed)
Shadows of the Last Alliance: My PbP game\'s CS (Not much written here yet)
...As it is in Heaven: My newer CS (currently mostly just brainstorming)
Vorsatz: my newest setting.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Quotes]
\"We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, leaving only the memory of smoke and the presumption that once our eyes watered.\" -Samuel Beckett
\"Who am I lady? I\'m your worst nightmare. A pumpkin with a gun!\" -Merv Pumpkinhead
\"This whole Case is like a chocolate jigsaw puzzle: It\'s messy, it sticks to your fingers and you don\'t know whether to fit the peices together or just take a big bite.\" - Jack Leaderboard
"Pig's lips meet my lips,
Pig's Stomach meets my stomach,
A meeting of meats."
- Anonnymous hotdog haiku.[/spoiler]
My Unitarian Jihad Name is Brother Boot Knife of Forgiveness.
Instigator of the Weirdo Invasion! :weirdo:

!turtle Are you a member of the turtle club? You bet your boots I am!

Senkennomei

#4
May 20, 2006, 01:11:18 AM
These names look a lot like the Demon Names from the Sesshu segment of my campaign world lol:

-Shikiyoku (Lust)
-Genkaku (Illusion)
-Bushou (Sloth)
-Suuhai (Worship)
-Saigi (Jealousy)
"If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it is that you can kill anyone." - Michael Corleone
My Gallery

Captain Obvious

#5
May 20, 2006, 07:48:43 AM
well, i can't tell what demons you are using to match them with since you changed all the names, but the names of the sins are fairly common and would show up quite often.
[spoiler=My Campaign Settings]
The Age of Kings: My main CS(Comments and Criticism welcomed)
Shadows of the Last Alliance: My PbP game\'s CS (Not much written here yet)
...As it is in Heaven: My newer CS (currently mostly just brainstorming)
Vorsatz: my newest setting.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Quotes]
\"We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, leaving only the memory of smoke and the presumption that once our eyes watered.\" -Samuel Beckett
\"Who am I lady? I\'m your worst nightmare. A pumpkin with a gun!\" -Merv Pumpkinhead
\"This whole Case is like a chocolate jigsaw puzzle: It\'s messy, it sticks to your fingers and you don\'t know whether to fit the peices together or just take a big bite.\" - Jack Leaderboard
"Pig's lips meet my lips,
Pig's Stomach meets my stomach,
A meeting of meats."
- Anonnymous hotdog haiku.[/spoiler]
My Unitarian Jihad Name is Brother Boot Knife of Forgiveness.
Instigator of the Weirdo Invasion! :weirdo:

!turtle Are you a member of the turtle club? You bet your boots I am!

Captain Obvious

#6
May 20, 2006, 05:44:33 PM
Alright, some thoughts on the base classes. keep in mind, the options will be different in different parts of the world. these are thebase classes for england, the rest of Europe and their assorted colonies (europe being the default starting point for adventures).

Barbarian - will most likely be kept as is. i like the rules it has.
    barb = in

Bard - not sure. it may fit in the setting fairly well, but i've never been a fan of the bard class. also, it has standard spellcasting which i don't want to use.
    bard = probably out

cleric = out

druid = significantly changed. i want to keep a version of the druid. might be a core class, might be a prestige class, but it will be the strangemysteries, sacrificing people and building stone circles druids (not the happy tree-huggers). will have some shape changing. spell-casting base is undecided. maybe the same rules as the shadowcaster, but with new spells.

fighter = all good. this class is just fine

rogue = in.

monk = out. (at least until i design the rules for asia)

ranger = out

paladin = out. i may add in the knight class from PHB II, but i'll probably just use fighter to fill the gap.

sorceror and wizard = gone. there may be a shadowcaster variant (like the druid idea above) that use some sorc/wiz spells to fill in the position of mystic. (specialization wuld likely be manf\\datory and very strict on spell selection)

psionic classes = i'm not sure. I was planning for them to have a big part if it was set in the present day, but if i'm doing jacobean they don't seem to fit as well.

Trunamer = this will have a big part in the setting. truename magic will represent the underlying language of creation, including things like the word of god. there will be both good and evil truenamers, but they will mostly use the same powers (reversed words will likely be the corruptions of the words of god, but all factions can use both).

Shadowcaster = variants of this class will form most of the standard caster classes. each class will use the rules mechanics from the shadowcaster class, but will have sipperent spells and different non-casting based class features. A preliminary list will be:
shadow magic [shadowcasters],
nature magic [druids],
celestial magic [astrologer?] (mix of summoning, divination, and planar travel spells),
energy magic [channelers] (lots of energy-type spells. very offensive magic-heavy),
internal magic [don't have a name yet] (lots of buffing, shape-changing and other transmutation spells. also, some access to healing spells, although they will improve regeneration rate and/or grant fast healing rather than be the standard cure spells),
death magic [necromancers] (raising dead, creating undead, and lots of non standard harmful spells, such as ability damage and negative level)

Binder = large part. must choose a pool to choose you vestiges from based on your organiztion/alleigance. Catholic church gets assorted celestials, saints and archangels at the highest levels. Demon-binders get to choose from many types of demons. other groupings to come.

warlock = will be used as a hedge-mage/warrior mage type. also some people who have demonic pacts or blood.

scout = umm... probably, but i'm not sure. i life the class, but i kind of want to keep the number of core classes availiable down, so i dunno yet.

ninja, samurai, wu-jen, shujenja = not yet at least. see monk for explanation

swashbuckler = same as scout. i like it and it fits, but i don't know if i want that many classes

hexblade = no

spelltheif = doubtful. see reasons for scout and swashbuckler (this one is the least likely to be added though.

favoured soul = probably not

spirit shaman = almost definitely not

warmage = no

knight = very likely, but see reasoning for scout and others.

of the psychic classes, i will probably use sould knife and wilder. psion and psychic warrior are out.
[spoiler=My Campaign Settings]
The Age of Kings: My main CS(Comments and Criticism welcomed)
Shadows of the Last Alliance: My PbP game\'s CS (Not much written here yet)
...As it is in Heaven: My newer CS (currently mostly just brainstorming)
Vorsatz: my newest setting.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Quotes]
\"We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, leaving only the memory of smoke and the presumption that once our eyes watered.\" -Samuel Beckett
\"Who am I lady? I\'m your worst nightmare. A pumpkin with a gun!\" -Merv Pumpkinhead
\"This whole Case is like a chocolate jigsaw puzzle: It\'s messy, it sticks to your fingers and you don\'t know whether to fit the peices together or just take a big bite.\" - Jack Leaderboard
"Pig's lips meet my lips,
Pig's Stomach meets my stomach,
A meeting of meats."
- Anonnymous hotdog haiku.[/spoiler]
My Unitarian Jihad Name is Brother Boot Knife of Forgiveness.
Instigator of the Weirdo Invasion! :weirdo:

!turtle Are you a member of the turtle club? You bet your boots I am!

Captain Obvious

#7
May 22, 2006, 11:31:41 AM
Summary of core classes so far (using new classes and those from PHB, complete series, ToM, psionics handbook, and Knight from PHB2)

Defenitely in:
Barbarian (as is)
Binder (different vestiges) [chooses a list of vestiges based on religion/organization/alleigance]
Fighter (as is)
Rogue (as is)
Trunamer (as is) [uses word of god/language of creation]
Warlock (as is)
Mystic (variants of Shadowcaster class)
- Astrologer [celestial magic]
- Channeler [energy magic]
- Druid [nature magic]
- Necromancer [death magic]
- Shadowcaster [shadow magic]
- Vitalist? [internal magic]

Maybe in:
Knight
Scout
Soulknife
Swashbuckler
Wilder

Probably not in (but has a chance):
Bard (different spellcasting rules)
Favoured Soul
Spelltheif

Out until i design Asia:
Monk
Ninja
Samurai
Shujenja
Wu-jen

Gone (except maybe as prestige classes):
Cleric
Druid (but see new druid)
Hexblade
Paladin
Psion
Psychic Warrior
Ranger
Sorceror
Spirit Shaman
Warmage
Wizard


**Also, does anyone know whether the Shadowcaster's mysteries are balanced with normal spells of the same level. Cause if they are, the mystic class becomes far easier to make since i can just transfer spells over without having to remake them.**
[spoiler=My Campaign Settings]
The Age of Kings: My main CS(Comments and Criticism welcomed)
Shadows of the Last Alliance: My PbP game\'s CS (Not much written here yet)
...As it is in Heaven: My newer CS (currently mostly just brainstorming)
Vorsatz: my newest setting.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Quotes]
\"We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, leaving only the memory of smoke and the presumption that once our eyes watered.\" -Samuel Beckett
\"Who am I lady? I\'m your worst nightmare. A pumpkin with a gun!\" -Merv Pumpkinhead
\"This whole Case is like a chocolate jigsaw puzzle: It\'s messy, it sticks to your fingers and you don\'t know whether to fit the peices together or just take a big bite.\" - Jack Leaderboard
"Pig's lips meet my lips,
Pig's Stomach meets my stomach,
A meeting of meats."
- Anonnymous hotdog haiku.[/spoiler]
My Unitarian Jihad Name is Brother Boot Knife of Forgiveness.
Instigator of the Weirdo Invasion! :weirdo:

!turtle Are you a member of the turtle club? You bet your boots I am!
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