The Aniga Project

Hibou · May 25, 2006, 03:51:00 PM

Well, I've got a fair bit to respond to. Here goes:

Turin

QuoteI think you're missing the point here, supadupaman (no offense). I think what Witchhunt wants for this project is NOT pick a rough time period: he wants to start at zero and have the world develop "naturally" as its history is developed by the creators. This is a fresh idea because the common way of going about it is to have a current situation and then develop its history backwards. he big advantage is that you can create a world that is playable in any of its timeframes. You will basically have a more or less fully developed campaign setting at any point in time. That's what I think WitchHunt wants and it's very ambitious, to say the least.

That's exactly what I intended. With a world like that, we can truly call it ours and not be copying a real-world society or imagined society. I think, however, than an appropriate time to start really working on the world from would be the point where a very simple technological advancement such as The Wheel or the development of agriculture began. History prior to that could be given a brief explanation, but for the most part detailed accounts of the past should begin where the rate of advancement really begins to pick up speed.

QuoteWhile you're at it, you could try to have magic develop accordingly. It's unrealistic (in my mind) when the stone age people walk out of the forest, settle down, discover magic, and suddenly start casting time stop and wish and whatnot. Magic should evolve at the same pace as the rest of society. Hmmm.

That would be a good thing for us to do. In my opinion, magic should probably be there at full power right from the start or (relatively) soon after civilization really begins. It just wouldn't be all that well-known or practiced. Early spellcasters will probably only realize spells with certain effects slowly, as they may not have experiences that introduce them to a thought or concept.

QuoteThis is a very interesting idea that I'm certainly going to keep my eye on, though unfortunately I can't join you as a creator. Perhaps I'll pop in with an idea every now and again.

:)

Supadupaman

QuoteName-wise, what about Genesis? It's a bit obvious, but i think it works.

The Genesis Project?

QuoteWould you want this to be a world where the world got created naturally? (i.e. life crawls out of the ocean and then gradually gets more advanced). if so, we want to start the timeline just after the stone age or so, right? 9people can start making societies instead pof just doing the hunter-gatherer thing and trying to survive.

This should definitely be a joint decision, but my opinion is yes, it should be natural, with the added features of magical power and the supernatural being real. It would be like general solar system (except our Material Plane could have more than one moon, the system could have a different number of planets, a different type of Sun, etc.). Regardless of how it works, the role deities have in the beginning will likely be mostly Natural_20's choice, whether they created the universe, were spawned from thought, were very powerful mortals, or something else. Maybe the gods could have created the universe and simply allowed it to take its own path in regards to evolution and change, making it kind of like they were watching a very long movie.

We could go kind of real-world in that aspect, with the early and intermediate cultures believing in religion and creation myths, slowly sliding across the border into scientific explanation, either creating a unique religion/science combination or something else.

QuoteOr do you want to start with a creation myth and have the gods start the main race (is it humans or something else? andy ideas?) off at the desired starting point. If it's this method of world-birth, the first thing to do would be making the creation myth i guess. Also, would the creator gods have continuign influence on the society? or would they have servants overseeing it? or would servants show up every now and then? or do the gods just let the people fend for themselves?

See the previous reply for my own opinion on the beginnings of the world. As for races, I have no idea. Do we want to have the standard demihumans in this world? Do we even want humans? Humans are a must for a race I think, since they give players and GMs something to relate to. Plus, even if we end up several languages and giving new names to different races and creatures, the human names for them will be what we'll probably end up recognizing them by, earning them another point as a race.

If gods become active in society, it quickly changes the way things work (even in fantasy worlds). It does something to the tone of the setting, something I don't particularily like. Personally I think that we should go with a kind of 'fend for yourself' style, except the gods do take supposed action in special circumstances.

QuoteAs for my starting opinions, i would say the easiest thing would be to start with a humanish race (though not fully evolved yet). As for creation vs. evolution, i don't care either way particularily, but would be willing to vote if we need a tiebreaker.

That's two for human-ish. Maybe a race that bred with other races and their power became diluted, or maybe they went the opposite way and their power was strengthened by the blood of other races (these would probably be best for an evolution/deevolution idea), or maybe just regular humans, with or without a different stat block.

QuoteI'm gonna start drawing a rough map that we could use, and i'll then make it more and more detailed as i have time and we work stuff out. Any preference on the layout of the continents?

I think it'd be best to go with a map that looks believable but looks fantasy, if you get what I'm saying. I think it'd even be ok for you to generate a map and alter it if you wanted. It wouldn't be quite as original but would save time.

The current map is alright, but to me it seems kind of artificial. It could look good with some detailing and editing for sure, however. I'd like to see 8-9 continents (probably 6 or 7 large ones), with several island chains and individual islands dotting the seas. Also, it might make it a bit more realistic if the large oceans featured very few or no islands that weren't miniscule, at least in large parts of their bodies.

Natural_20

QuoteJust my thoughts here, there should be lots of ocean, as the peninsulas, islands, etc. make interesting locations. Perhaps the gods created more lands as their "chosen people" expanded? I'm in favor of a creation story, because this , at least IMO be fantasy, not a science lesson. Maybethe gods created a bronze or stone-age culture and it evolves over time? Just my thoughts...

Definitely on the oceans/islands part, but it shouldn't be overdone. I'd like to see a hybrid creation story. There definitely should be creation involved, but the approach to it depends on how deities are known. If they are real, provable forces in the world it'll go that way, but problems may arise with that method. If they are beings that have made their presence known, holy wars won't occur (ones that try to dismiss 'untrue' notions) against those of opposing faiths, since a given faith can be proven and a fearsome god backs that culture. Since war can be a factor for technological advancement, things may go slower in history if holy wars don't happen. And potentially a deity or number of deities could give their favored creations gifts such as powerful magic, more land, and improved living, quickly making the world a vastly different one from ours.

I think it should be kind of like a beefed up version of real-world religion vs science, at least eventually. Fantastic monsters and races should exist (though not nearly in the number that the MMs, FF, MoF, and other sources present), but they might not necessarily be commonplace. The question of divinity I think should be as big a mystery as it is in our world.

Senkennomei

QuoteI actually had an idea very similiar to this once...perhaps we could make a world of individual islands, as Supa suggested. Then, every island would be the domain if a single deity of every individual creator's design, and each creator then would also make a single race to hail from the deity and forge its own civilization. That way, every founder would have their own little claim to the world, their own race, and their own society with which to interact with the others created. Then we could all cooperatively create a timeline based on interactions between the different civilizations over a certain period of time.

Perhaps. Honestly I think creation myths and deities, if they are proven, defeat the purpose of The Genesis Project's advance through time. Who would need to advance their tech level if they could call on a deity and fix their problems?

Supadupaman

Quotethe individual civilizations seem like a good way to work this though. What do you think Witchhunt?

Individual civilizations farspread who have religions based on the elements of their cultures. I'm not in favor of a method where gods definitely created the world and the races. Mystery is the key for me.

Majority rules, however.

Numinous · May 25, 2006, 04:05:25 PM

Ok, digesting everything, and I'll post better later, but for now, I just had a really sweet idea...

For the really long movie idea... What if there was a god who made a world for entertainment, a world to develop as he watched. He creates several beings who think they are gods, and do not even know they were created. These pseudo gods create their own world at the beginning of time, and watch it grow, interfering only in times of great importance.

I'm gonna vote against the island apiece idea though, because it will divide the project, but majority will rule, if this is a democracy... :P

Hibou · May 25, 2006, 04:14:35 PM

I like that idea, Natural 20. It'd allow for a very realistic religion vs science possibility, and the gods could do little besides power divine magic, whether or not what mortals believe in for their religions is correct. It would allow civilization to advance and bring up a religion vs science conflict ( I love em!).

Two votes for that:)

Senkennomei · May 25, 2006, 04:19:30 PM

I like it too, and as stated I think it would be best to make an individual island + race for every individual creator. I actually already have a race in the making that could easily be adapted to this world...

Numinous · May 25, 2006, 04:48:26 PM

I have so many ideas for races, it isn't even funny, but I fear for a division due to everyone working individually and pushing for the dominance of their race...

On that note though, I guess I could use the Thrin (small fey race with a high speed and fast healing) for mine if we were to do it that way.

One thing to get out of the way before I go crazy is the nature of divinity in this world. Do we all want mystery? How active should the gods be? Can they be killed? Y'know, all that important divine stuff...

I tend to say "go big" for maps, but I'm also gonna say I want a spherical world for this CS. This means a finite world, but then we can tinker with celestial bodies more easily. Note I mean celestial as in stars and moons, not Outsiders.

Did I miss anything?

Hibou · May 25, 2006, 05:38:59 PM

QuoteI have so many ideas for races, it isn't even funny, but I fear for a division due to everyone working individually and pushing for the dominance of their race...

As do I. My latest is an idea for a race based off of amazing jumping ability. Thinking about it more I came up with two options: making them kind of human-like, but feature some different physical traits such as being much taller and some other undetermined qualities; or creating my own version of the satyr.

QuoteOne thing to get out of the way before I go crazy is the nature of divinity in this world. Do we all want mystery? How active should the gods be? Can they be killed? Y'know, all that important divine stuff...

I want mystery, that's for sure. I think the gods should be distant, and unkillable (at least, the mightiest can't be). There should only be signs of their existence in certain circumstances (like how "miracles" occur sometimes in real life). If we use D&D ranks (I prefer just calling them gods and forgetting about their stats myself), demigods and quasi-deities when encountered should be potentially killable.

That's my opinion.

QuoteI tend to say "go big" for maps, but I'm also gonna say I want a spherical world for this CS. This means a finite world, but then we can tinker with celestial bodies more easily. Note I mean celestial as in stars and moons, not Outsiders.

Big is good. Very big is even better. Count me in for spherical. :)

In case I wasn't clear in previous posts, I'm not for individual places for each race. My thought was perhaps there could be small groups of PC races on certain continents. For example, let's assume we had 10 PC races (wow) and 3 continents of immediate focus. 5 could be spread out across one large continent, 3 on another, one on a smaller chunk of land that is barely connected to one of them, and the final race exclusive to a small island chain far out to sea. Something like that. Just not elves on one big island, humans on another, dwarves on a third, etc.

Also, if no one else has any objections, the thread will be renamed to The Genesis Project.

Numinous · May 25, 2006, 05:54:56 PM

Can someone write me up something, like guidelines, for how to do the gods when we get there? And when do we want the wworld to be created? Just a bunch of naked people running around to start with?

I need more information, and a lot of things need to be cleared up before we start...

Xathan · May 25, 2006, 05:55:57 PM

if it's not too late, I'll be happy to jump in and lend my help. I do best with races...not sure which one of my numerous ideas I'd use here. If y'all want the help, give me some time to bring myself up to speed, and I'll pitch in once I figure everything out.

Hibou · May 25, 2006, 06:02:29 PM

QuoteCan someone write me up something, like guidelines, for how to do the gods when we get there? And when do we want the wworld to be created? Just a bunch of naked people running around to start with?

I need more information, and a lot of things need to be cleared up before we start...

I'll do that shortly. :)

Quoteif it's not too late, I'll be happy to jump in and lend my help. I do best with races...not sure which one of my numerous ideas I'd use here. If y'all want the help, give me some time to bring myself up to speed, and I'll pitch in once I figure everything out.

Welcome aboard! Any help is good help. It'll be a massive task to get this world going, and it's far from too late to throw in a hand. :)

Captain Obvious · May 25, 2006, 06:20:43 PM

Okay, whole lot of stuff to respond to. I'm going to try and give my comments on each item in the order they were posted, starting just after my last post.

re: time of start - I would like to do a bit of pre wheel/agri level tech stuff, since we would want to lay out what creatures dominated before then (dinosaurs anyone?).

re: magic developement - yes, having the level of known magic increase gradually is an important point. however, this brings two new thoughts to mind. the first is that since the max level they could cast is limited by one of their mental stats, we don't need any kind of artificial limt, since it's already there and will increase with the society, so long as we use the second new thought. This allows spellcasters to continue to advance in level, but they will only gain lots of low level spells, but no high level ones. The second thought, was that we should impose a new base level for the mental stats of a race to go along with each level of society we develope. maybe at the start, the average human intelligence is say, 6, so then a wizard of greatly above average intelligence (lets use the normal amount above average required to cast 9th level spells. i.e. 9 points above average) will be able to cast spells of up to 5th level only (9 more than 6 = int 15 = 5th level spells).

re: name - i was thinking the Genesis Project at first, but i think that's already the name of something (but i can't think of what. care to enlighten me if anyone knows).

re: the two points on creation vs. evolution - I would personally fote for a natural evolution, but with people beleiveing in several different creation theories, which then change and eventually become creation/scientific hybrids much like what we have. The gods should defenitely not be very active in the world, and i don't think they should interact at all in fact. Also, see my idea at the very end of this post, about a previous race.

re: races - i think humans, or some variants thereof should be included and perhaps the only significantly evolved race. although, there could be one main races per continent/area and then they eventually begin to interact with each other.

re: map - you're right WH. those islands shouldn't actually be that large. i was houst trying to lay out rough insland and mountain chains wherever they would have been caused by the tectonic plates. If anyone wants to post something else for me to use as a base/give me comments/lead me to a good fractal world map generator to start from (since the site i used to use is broken currenly), then i'll take those into consideration and start work on a new rough map.

re: the peninsulas, divisions, and creation provability - some of the map stuff i agree on. the creation stores should not be provable, as you pointed out, since that removes a huge amount of driving force and conflict possibilities. i like senk's idea, but only if approached from the opposite direction. each continent could have a different race or two on it, but they should not have been placed there by a certain god each. instead, the gods on each island popped up there cause each culture dveloped it's own religion. there should still be interaction in between us even if we each have our own continent, and on second though, maybe we should just do everything together.

re: world as entertainment - cool idea, but i have two things against it. first it requires some level of admitting there is defenitely a god. also, see my final idea at the end. although, i guess the observer god could fit into pretty much any world, even one with other pantheons created by the populations, so i guess this could fit. i'd have to mull it over before i vote in favour of it.

now, my final point...

What if this is not actually the first major grouping of creature to gain sentience and create a culture. then once they reach higher tech, they go into space/into some other dinesion/whatever. while they were still on genesis, they could have modified some of the fauna (which then developed, in their absence, into the main races, or monster races of whatever we want), and when they left, some of their structures and equipement could have been left behind and been durable or well hidden enough to have survived. maybe it was their mental/genetic experiments on the main races that created psionics. who knows?

i was actually thinking of making a stone age CS and using this in it as well, but it seemed like the idea would fit well into this world.

Senkennomei · May 25, 2006, 06:43:50 PM

Quote from: supadupamanre: magic developement - yes, having the level of known magic increase gradually is an important point. however, this brings two new thoughts to mind. the first is that since the max level they could cast is limited by one of their mental stats, we don't need any kind of artificial limt, since it's already there and will increase with the society, so long as we use the second new thought. This allows spellcasters to continue to advance in level, but they will only gain lots of low level spells, but no high level ones. The second thought, was that we should impose a new base level for the mental stats of a race to go along with each level of society we develope. maybe at the start, the average human intelligence is say, 6, so then a wizard of greatly above average intelligence (lets use the normal amount above average required to cast 9th level spells. i.e. 9 points above average) will be able to cast spells of up to 5th level only (9 more than 6 = int 15 = 5th level spells).

re: the two points on creation vs. evolution - I would personally fote for a natural evolution, but with people beleiveing in several different creation theories, which then change and eventually become creation/scientific hybrids much like what we have. The gods should defenitely not be very active in the world, and i don't think they should interact at all in fact. Also, see my idea at the very end of this post, about a previous race.[/quote]
re: map - you're right WH. those islands shouldn't actually be that large. i was houst trying to lay out rough insland and mountain chains wherever they would have been caused by the tectonic plates. If anyone wants to post something else for me to use as a base/give me comments/lead me to a good fractal world map generator to start from (since the site i used to use is broken currenly), then i'll take those into consideration and start work on a new rough map.[/quote]
What if this is not actually the first major grouping of creature to gain sentience and create a culture. then once they reach higher tech, they go into space/into some other dinesion/whatever. while they were still on genesis, they could have modified some of the fauna (which then developed, in their absence, into the main races, or monster races of whatever we want), and when they left, some of their structures and equipement could have been left behind and been durable or well hidden enough to have survived. maybe it was their mental/genetic experiments on the main races that created psionics. who knows?
[/quote]

I'm getting Chozo flashbacks again...

Hibou · May 25, 2006, 07:27:41 PM

QuoteI don't think it's a good idea to make a LARGE extinct group prior to the existance of the current creatures and races because that significantly diminishes the mystery aspect of this world. We want the races to wonder where they came from, if there is a god, etc. Having an extinct race may clash with this mindset a little too much in the favor of Darwinism.

I agree. Mystery is an important part of what is coming to be here.

Quote...You completely and totally lost me on this one. Why not just make a world with no magic system at all and leave it at that?

Yeah, just stick with basic magic. Maybe different core spellcasters will be created, but basic magic is fine.

QuoteHmm...Aniga? It's a play on the words "Anima" and "Enigma." I think it would fit nicely with with the world.

I like it. :)

Quotere: races - i think humans, or some variants thereof should be included and perhaps the only significantly evolved race. although, there could be one main races per continent/area and then they eventually begin to interact with each other.

---

Wait...you lost me again. You want humans? I thought we were all going to make our own races for every individual area and just screw any core races all together.

I think there should be more than one race per continent, just not all on the same one. It'll just make it easier, because I don't know if we want to have them all develop their nations separately. Certainly they shouldn't be all clustered together on all continent, but all separate isn't too great either. They can come out fine if they're divided over great distances, but even if the first city of the humans is only 300 miles from the nearest humanoid neighbors, they can still develop in moderate isolation due to the available modes of transportation and the terrain itself.

I'd love to handle humans in the campaign setting. I have an idea for a new race, but I would like to see humans in the setting and will readily be their main man.

QuoteAgreed, the islands should be kept relatively small, I wouldn't make a world generator or anything like that though, it would be best if every individual player made their own island, picked a region on a blank globe of water, and then we work everything out from there.

That's the part I'm not really for. I'd like to use a map either drawn or generated and edited somewhat. Preferrably a generated one because it's much quicker and there's no problem of someone feeling bad about the map because they drew it and someone didn't like it so much. If we use a generated one, we can generate until a map is found that everyone finds decent if not totally rad, dude.

I'd definitely like to see several large continents as well as small island chains, but they should seem realistic enough when you look at them.

So, The Aniga Project is the new name?

Hibou · May 25, 2006, 07:29:55 PM

Also, a while back I remember someone posting on either WotC or here about a bunch of generated maps and which ones looked best. I remember some of them being really awesome. I don't remember much else, but does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Xathan · May 25, 2006, 07:40:43 PM

Yeah, that's the fractal worldmap generator. Google 'fractal worldmap generator" and click on the first link. however, their server is down, so we can't use it for now.

Hibou · May 25, 2006, 07:43:58 PM

Bummer.

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