The Campaign Builder's Guild

[blockquote=Elven Doritos]...during the earlier days the tenor of the conversations was one that burst with a dynamic energy that I felt kinetically linked to'¦ Although we have more members, the forums have been grinding to a halt for a while now, with activity that is sporadic and outside my scope of interest.[/blockquote]
[blockquote=Ishmayl]Currently, I'm feeling a lot of lag around the site, both in terms of the amount of activity on the site from the fine patrons (you guys), as well as the amount of time I personally am willing to put into the site. It seems that there are a lot of people with ideas on this site, but those people rarely follow through and turn those ideas into realities. [/blockquote]
[blockquote=Rose of Montague]Reminds me of better days here, when setting material was flooding the boards and excitement at every one filed me with every new post.[/blockquote]
Although Elven Doritos made it clear that his reasons for leaving the Guild were his own, his departure seems symptomatic of a feeling I've kind of sensed more generally on the forums.  As you guys know I'm a pretty new member of the boards, though I lurked erratically for awhile before joining (simply because you guys have totally awesome and frequently inspiring ideas).  But despite my novice-hood I also feel like a kind of nostalgia is very much in the air.  Lots of previously used elements of the site are now defunct, such as the Campaign Showcase Archives and the CeBeGia.  Drizztrocks in his inadvertent (but incredibly well-meaning) thread-necromancy has been tapping into exciting threads that have lain fallow for over a year now, and there are others, many of them once thriving, that have dwindled into inaction (contests and review-swapping come to mind).  Some of the elder board members who used to be very active have lapsed into long periods of silence (not that I'm trying to blame them in any way '" I get the feeling they're responding to the wind-down rather than causing it).

I'm curious about why this rather tragic decline seems to be occurring.  Is there some sort of vicious cycle operating '" people don't feel like posting because they don't receive enough feedback, and people don't give enough feedback because of infrequent posting?  Older members of the board, who were around during its inception and first years '" what seemed to sustain the boards' energy at that time?  It can't be purely a 'website'/tech thing because the site was more primitive back then, yet it seems like those first months and years were a kind of golden age.  Was posting just a lot more frequent?  Was there a qualitative difference in the ideas being generated?

I find the atmosphere of melancholy a little strange in conjunction with the fervor of voting for the site.  That the Campaign Builder's Guild ranks 8th at RPG Gateway suggests that it is one of the major world-building sites out there.  I certainly think that the CBG continues to outclass the WOTC campaign-building forums.  So is world-building itself declining, as a hobby and art-form?  This prospect makes me particularly sad, since world-building is what initially drew me to roleplaying in the first place.

Or am I off-track with this?  Do most feel that in fact the boards are better than ever?  If you've become disinterested or morose with the boards, as Elven Doritos clearly had, then what would remedy that ennui?

Nothing can ever replace those first few months, or even the first year, of a brand new forum. There's always new faces, new ideas, new concepts... Everything is new. This sense of 'newness' helps invigorate people to post and talk and be active. As forums grow older that initial wave of 'new' dwindles and a general malaise seeps across the board. Its not entirely uncommon for boards to die after that sense of 'new' is gone.

The CBG, like many forums, goes in and out of phases. These phases tend to last months at a time where there will either be extreme inactivity or extreme activity, the pendulum hardly swings moderately. I've noticed that this site in particular tends to be prone to such pendulum swings. Generally, I've noticed that if the forum has 2 or 3 new/active Homebrews going, the traffic is higher than when there is only 1 or none.

I'd suggest the staff and/or interested members do the following to re-invigorate the masses:

1. Post your own Campaign setting. Even if its just in the concept phase, we'll help you nurture your baby into a healthy adult setting!

2. Don't be stingy with your Review badges. Give them to everyone that posts in your discussion thread. The more links are out there, the more likely it is people will go to your setting.

3. Post at least 1 comment on another person's Campaign Setting per day when ever time you log on. It doesn't have to be anything mind blowing, perhaps just a clarification question. Every post counts!

4. We need to make a New CBGeopardy game. That will help showcase older and newer settings and (hopefully) get people interested in other people's creations.

5. We need to have the 'Setting Showcase of the Week.' Each week we rotate a new setting in and provide a link to it on the front page. The more traffic going into a setting, the more discussions can be had.

6. In general, everyone just needs to post more. Even if its in 'Crush My Wishes' or 'Loose Association.' The more posts and traffic, the better off people will feel (so we can get away from this wreaking nostalgia).

Your prompt reply already makes me feel more optimistic!

I'm still relatively new so perhaps you (or anyone else) could enlighten me about review badges?

Review badges are small graphics that a setting creator can give to another user to place in his signature, in exchange for feecback on the creator's setting.  They usually link back to the setting thread itself, creating a cycle of reviews.  Or at least, that was the original idea.

Personally I try and updated my settings every few days (or daily if I'm able to) even if people don't post in my threads. I love it when people do though, I always want other peoples opinions good or bad on what I've posted.

I try and post in everyone's setting thread (preferably something semi-relevant), I know I've skipped some, or haven't posted in it yet, ether because its intimidating (Steerpike's stuff, Seraphine Harmoniums, or I haven't gotten around to it yet, newer stuff mostly)

As for a review badge, I have one(for Divergence, its in my sig), but I haven't managed to get it to link yet.

For more info Steerpike, its a 22x22 pixel image, that somehow can be a link to the setting of choice.

Quote from: SteerpikeYour prompt reply already makes me feel more optimistic!

I'm still relatively new so perhaps you (or anyone else) could enlighten me about review badges?

Rose pretty much covered all the main points :) Oh, their are some rules about the Review Badges in that they have to be 22x22 (so all the badges look uniform :)

Here's an example of a Review Badge from my old (and dead) setting:

Here's what it looks like in your Sig:    

Here's the code for my Badge:   [url=http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?52268.last] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/RHO1/coolness-copy.gif[/img][/url]

Here's a base template to use for your Review Badge:    [url=YOUR THREAD LINK HERE] [img]YOUR IMAGE LINK HERE[/img][/url]


EDIT: Hey Llum, I noticed your setting badge doesn't have a link attached to it... Here's the code to fix that :)

[url=http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?56255.post] [img]http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/images/4/47/DivergenceReview.JPG[/img]  [/url]  

Thanks for the instructions!  I'll work on whipping up a Cadaverous Earth review badge...

[blockquote=Llum]...because its intimidating[/blockquote]

Heh is that primarily the "wall o' text" effect, Llum?

Well, I have noticed that I don't post as often as I used to, and that I don't spend as much time here as I used to.  This is rather sad, because I like this forum.  I genuinely loved coming here after spending time on the Wizards boards and finding a community.  That, I think was the most important thing characterizing the boards back then.  I wonder if, ironically, its growth didn't overall do more harm than good.  I mean no offense to any members who weren't around for the beginning, but I wonder if the small group who all answered each other's posts on a regular basis (because there was just no one else around) was part of the charm.  There was a degree of consistency to it.  The guild was small, so you knew everyone.  Since you knew everyone, every post increased that sense of community.  As the number of members grew, it got harder to get to know everyone.  What's more, with all these new members bringing new worlds, and old members posting new worlds, the attention of the guild became divided.  It got harder to keep up with old friends, and harder to really get to know new ones.

I can't say anything for certain, but with so much more going on, perhaps some campaigns got neglected.  Perhaps some guildmembers just didn't get the feedback to continue posting regularly.  Perhaps, with less response from a divided guild (attention wise) there was less incentive to create new material, and campaigns stagnated.

Maybe there's a happier explanation:  Maybe some people actually, through the help of the guild, managed to complete a world or worlds of their's to their satisfaction.  With their world complete, perhaps they have no further need of the guild.  Perhaps their time is spend PLAYING in their world.  They've left the nest to go out and fly, as it were.

But in any case, as each veteran left, it was as if the guild was losing a piece of its soul.  The "Old Guard" was starting to crumble.  Those who were around from the very beginning got more and more disheartened with each loss.  In some cases, the pain came gradually, as members were absent longer and longer, until the realization came that they weren't coming back.  In others, such as ElDo's sudden departure, the pain came with the shock that a friend and comrade would be gone, and it could not be plainer that he would not be coming back.

But regardless of how and why exactly it happened, we have lost a good deal of that community spirit.  There's a degree of hijinks I miss in Raelifin's--"vitriolic diatribe" I believe was the term given to it--on my campaign of Avayevnon.  And of course there are contless other anecdotes.  To go on simply with things that involved ME: the ElDo-Seraph Alliteration War, the Tavern chat that stared with "Scary Aryans" and led to the formation of the Fiendish Iranian Commie-Nazi Zombie Ninja-Pirates with Goatees and Awesome Scars, Smilie wars and the Weirdo Invasion.  They were good times for their playfulness.  We could joke and fight and pretend to fight as a joke.

Now with the new group, things haven't quite been the same.  As has been stated before, it's no one's fault.  We just couldn't quite keep it together.  However, there HAVE been a few new campaigns that have caught my interest--Knife's Edge, for instance.  Some of these might be able to bring new life to the guild.  It won't be the same as it was, but hopefully it can be just as good.

My own lack of activity with the CBG has two parts.  The first is that I seem to be in a creative slump, and can't get enough coherent thoughts together for a campaign setting or even to post something smaller.  The second'"

[braces for people to be very irritated]

'"I haven't found much of interest to me on this site in a while.  The campaign settings aren't to my taste, and there haven't been any topics of interest to me on any of the other forums.  The latter could just be a symptom of the general malaise, but the former isn't something expect to change given that most settings I read about on the internet give a strong impression that people want things very different from what I want.  And when something is different from what I'm looking for I usually don't get any constructive thoughts about it, and rather than say something non-constructive I just keep silent.

Quote from: SteerpikeThanks for the instructions!  I'll work on whipping up a Cadaverous Earth review badge...

[blockquote=Llum]...because its intimidating[/blockquote]

Heh is that primarily the "wall o' text" effect, Llum?

Obviously, I'm not Llum.  However, this would certainly be MY guess as to why. I read a little bit of your setting, and that was, frankly, what kept me from getting further into it.  I HAVE intended to get back to it, but it hasn't happened yet.  Considering the original context of the quoted quote, this was also the reason why Avayvenon wasn't getting more reviews.  I'm guilty of it too and I know it.  I WAS thinking about starting up a new thread called Avayevnon: Remixed, or something.  Taking all of my new ideas that have been brought up in the Discussion thread, but not been fit to place straight in the Campaign thread.  Taking into account these criticisms, it would probably at least make an attempt to break the information up into smaller, more easily digestible segments.  Of course, with my new Steampunk London setting, I'm not sure where I'll want to focus my energy.  Oh yeah, and college.  There's that little distraction too.  Oh well, hopefully we can overcome our flaws and come together a bit more.

Well, this will be my first post in a while.

Ironically, I still come to this site, if not daily, several times per day. I just haven't been posting much. Regardless, I read each of Steerpike's examples from up above and couldn't help but have reached the same conclusion.

Personally, I've expected this to happen ever since the CBG wiki. It really began when people started making comments on setting pages in the wiki rather than using the forums here. The critiques were, arguably, a little more efficient on the wiki, but they lost a lot in substance and personality.

I never had much of a go for my own setting on here. My original setting, Aldreia, was on its way to retirement when  I arrived. Now I have the Tephra project, and we have a seven-person company working on it, so discussing Tephra here doesn't work.  Ultimately, I just haven't had a reason to get too involved with the setting creations here, and most of the old settings I kept up with (which weren't many, admittedly), haven't been around.

I would enjoy seeing the place revised a bit, but I don't know how much I'll be around in the future. I put at least 8 hours a day into Tephra, and that doesn't leave much room for other things. ^_^

[blockquote=Seraphine_Harmonium]However, this would certainly be MY guess as to why. I read a little bit of your setting, and that was, frankly, what kept me from getting further into it. I HAVE intended to get back to it, but it hasn't happened yet. [/blockquote]

Fair enough, Seraphine - I certainly wasn't trying to imply any failure of Llum's part.  The Cadaverous Earth is getting rather large (although the beginning is definitely an overveiw and the posts get more detailed as the thread goes on).  I should probably organize a table of contents.

[blockquote=Jharviss]Personally, I've expected this to happen ever since the CBG wiki. It really began when people started making comments on setting pages in the wiki rather than using the forums here. The critiques were, arguably, a little more efficient on the wiki, but they lost a lot in substance and personality. [/blockquote]

Mmm I can see how that might happen.  Wikis are great on a lot of levels, but they don't lend themselves as well to the kind of critical environment people used to enjoy, perhaps (?).

If I remember correctly, the review badges had to be of a certain size (22x22, I think?), so that those of us who got multiple badges could line them up. They were also completely voluntary, so if you had a setting you didn't think was going anywhere, you didn't have to make a badge for it.

For me, I suspect my loss of vigor might have something to do with the growing member count. When it's just a dozen or so guys posting great ideas and great settings, it seems almost... elite, without pretentious snobbishness. Not only is it easier to jump from setting to setting, the settings leave a more memorable impression-- possibly because it's easier to remember the subtle distinctions of each and every setting when there's less settings to remember.

I don't think the quality of the stuff posted has declined at all. While the older stuff is great, so is some of the newer stuff (Cadaverous Earth, Tough Worlds, etc.). The problem is, with more idea to check out, and the same amount of time each day to check out those ideas, we have to become increasingly picky about which ideas we check out; "Tough Worlds To Live In? That sounds interesting, but what's this? Haveneast has new posts, too? Decisions, decisions..." I think the site-- at least those of us who have been around almost since the beginning-- wasn't prepared for having to be picky. We end up putting all our energy into trying to decide which setting to look at, and by the time we decide, we don't have as much energy to actually check the setting out.

I am far and away a VERY infrequent poster when it comes to my own setting material, and I feel bad because I check these boards daily, and every time, I think "why aren't more people posting more on their settings? or more settings?" but it's total hypocrisy, because I go, and have always gone, for up to months at a time without posting more of my own work.

I either don't feel inspired, or don't have time to write. Maybe it's a perfectionist thing I have - I feel I have to set aside a lot of time and mental space to write creatively, otherwise I won't be pleased with the result.

Because of this I can spend hours agonising over the phrasing of a sentence... Okay, that was an exaggeration, but maybe 10-15 minutes.

I'm not sure how relevant this is, except as a sort of explanation of why I'm not more active in terms of the actual setting-creation aspect of the forum.

EDIT: and in terms of giving people feedback on their work... I dunno but I either feel like all I have to say is "well done" or it would be too much of a struggle to put my feelings in an inoffensive way. There's very little posted these days which I feel I can be constructively critical of without basically telling the person to redesign.

In a way that means quality's going up, because the few absolutely rubbish settings I see are HEAVILY outweighed by the ones where all I can say is "I love it"

As others have said, a good deal of the loss of momentum evident in the CBG's history is due to time and the loss of that "new car smell".  Also, a great deal of that stagnation is a side-effect of the rapid growth we have experienced here.  As the days of the old guard crumble before the new age revolutionaries, the old infrastructure has broken down to the detriment of the community.  I have some suggestions on how to fix this problem, listed below.

- Activity amongst the elite: Back in the days that we all remember fondly, there were many experts available to help the inexperienced users find their footing.  Over time, the brighter bulbs gave way to the new blood that didn't want to improve so much as gather admiration for the newest shiny they had pulled out of a garbage pail of sourcebooks.  Bring some class back into the forum, I know limetom has some real knowledge that can be mined and I'm sure others do as well.  Put together the resources you have and use them if you want to see any real change.

- The installation of daily review groups: Based on the old model of reciprocal review, a daily review group would see everyone in a group, made of 4 or 5 users, comment on any updates in the group, seeing that a small number of people see in-depth support and criticisms on their work.  This idea is taken from the "Daily Sketch Groups" of conceptart.org, a well-esablished forum that uses this model to maintain motivation among aspiring artists.

- Real criticism: The community here has gradually grown more opposed to any feedback that isn't overwhelmingly positive.  I know of quite a few settings that really should be scrapped and rewritten to save any dignity.  What the guild does is new and founded on innovation, but that doesn't mean there can't be any guidelines on making a good setting or improving a concept.  A setting can be judged just like any other piece of literature, and therefore improved.  Quite frankly, the users here deserve more constructive feedback than a "good job" every few weeks.  Put some teeth into your criticisms and maybe we'll see some improvement.

And now, I bid you adieu, comrades.  I can be reached through the e-mail address rose(dot)of(dot)montague(at)gmail(dot)com

It's been a good run,

~ Natural 20, Rose of Montague, Crit