The Campaign Builder's Guild

[ic=Out Of Character]Yeah. Remember this homebrew, my life's work, ahem, so to speak, that I had on the old boards that this used to be? If any of you that are here now were even the same few people who were joined back there. It wasn't up for very long, I figured it just became defunct, only tonight did I finally stumble upon the announcement saying it had moved. Right, whatever. So here I am now, brought this with me.

Lots of people don't like it, especially badly regarded is my favorite, pivotal Josh God-Emperor character. Virtually everyone seems to complain, ranging from outright bashing to well-intentioned constructive criticism that nonetheless masks a deep impression, in their eyes, of its' inherent flaws. But there always seems to be those one or two people who absolutely love it and just *get* it, and don't see what all the critics are even talking about, and it's for them that I keep bothering. So in case you missed it the first time, my widely-disliked, ahead-of-its-time campaign setting, in all it's majestically lopsided glory, Storm Era, or, known by it's original working title, Chronicles Of Fate. Enjoy.[/ic]

The Teachings Of Divine Order:
Ordne, The Holy Book Of Chaos

The Beginning

In one way, existence had a beginning, but in another, it always was. No matter which way you choose to look at it, however, there have always been Order and Chaos, and theyâ,¬,,¢ve always been opposed. Time is a cycle, meaning that the beginning of the world is also itsâ,¬,,¢ end, and past and future are a matter of perspective. From the view of linear time, there was first the nothingness or Order, impurely infinite, it was orderly simply because it was nothing at all, and where there is nothing, there can be no randomness. Then came Chaos- it came from the future, from The End, back to the beginning, it was born into the eternal nothingness of Order as a single spark of infinite light, pure existence, and from that quickly spread out into space and time, matter and energy, and all of the myriad intentions and existences of reality.

â,¬Å"We have but one purpose: Society will fall at any cost!â,¬Â

You All Should Rebel....

Everyone who wants to be truly free needs to rebel, dedicate themselves to overthrowing Society and become Revs. No matter what, you should all convert to Revdom! If you think you're free now, you're sadly deluded. Stop being brainwashed, revolt! You are slaves- become Revs! Josh has spoken.

I just wanted to post that to see where you people would go with it. It was intentionally....not cryptic, exactly, but....incomplete. I wanted to see something. You'll see....Josh has spoken.

None of you understand, none of you come even close to understanding. But that's ok, because you've got almost another 2 centuries yet and a long way to go before you see the picture as I now can. I know, you'll say I'm crazy, or stupid, or immature, or pointless, or whatever inconsequential insult you can muster to hurl. And that's ok: in fact, it's good. It's a start, in one way, but it's an obstacle in another. You are all different, as you should be.

 Some are only out for yourselves and could care less about "the system" as long as you have ways of getting around it. That's also the right kind of attitude to take. Some of you hate freedom, and want conformity. That's evil, but in a way, even that provides tools that can be used: rigidity, intolerance of anything BUT; aren't just the weapons of the enemy, they can be turned against them as well. But all of these disparate things, alone, will not change anything.

 You may think it doesn't matter, that "democracy" is about as good as it gets, you may think you're an "anarchist" or against "the government" and "the corporations". All great places to start. But none of these things are THE answer. That's not because there isn't an answer, it's because you haven't gotten to it yet. The Beatniks and the Hippies failed to bring about lasting change because they were willing to unite, but unwilling to fight. Their ideological heir appearants, the Punk movement, is and will fail because they're (somewhat) willing to fight, but unwilling to unite.

 Even if any of these had done both, they still would fail because they are not nearly all-encompassing enough to see for what it is and address the actual scope of a problem that humans living as an organized "Society" is. No-one comes close to even beginning to realize what a detriment this is to humanity as a species and the individuals that comprise it.

 You still believe that social and cooperative behavior are the same thing, and that they're beneficial to us. People can cooperate towards a common goal without needing to involve the evil of becoming a structured Society. I know you'll laugh me right out of here for saying all this; those of you that can even sort of understand it, that's ok too. Like I said, you have a long way to go, and you'll probably never see any improvement or be healed the damage within your lifetimes. Unfortunate.

 But your children's children's children have a chance at a better kind of life, one of true freedom. Society is evil now, and it will be even more evil still when, over the course of the years to come, it will develop the technological ability to physically force itsâ,¬,,¢ hive-mind mentality and existence upon everyone. Any formulation of free thought and therefore, any chance at rebellion or individuality will then be lost. It will be too late, and you children will be remembered as the last late, great race. But we are going to fight that. You can choose to fight for yourselves, or against yourselves. You can even be a wise-beyond-your-years "early adopter" and become a Rev now, if you hear and understand any part of my message. Do whatever you choose, while you still have some choice, even if most of your mind is already made up of the brainwashing Society has imprinted on you since birth. The wool has been pulled down very far indeed over all of your eyes, even those who think they know it's there and pulled it up, are just seeing a second layer of deception.

 The Revs are not a club. We're not a group, or an organization or a civilization. We're definitely not a society. We are an umbrella. We unite everyone who realizes that things shouldn't be this way, or at least we will. We are change itself, change for the better, until everyone CAN do what they want, without having to worry about getting caught, until we have true freedom, and live true life, the way it was meant to be. Until the war is won. My name is Josh, and I don't "wannabe" anything. I'm not a punk. I already am all that I am, was, or will ever be. My name is Josh, and I am a Rev. Josh has spoken.

Hah. *Raises eyebrow* Is your brother me by any chance? Certainly sounds like it. I've never heard of anyone else coming as close to how I and people (or demons, whatever) who know me would describe myself as the way you just described your brother. Seriously, though, no-one will be dominating the world. Many will try, there will be many Socs (the opposite of Revs, devotees of Society; i.e. what 99.9999% of the people alive right now are, whether they realize it, want to be, or not), many would-be dictators rising over the course of the decades and centuries to come, all vying for the attempt to rule the world. There may even be others with ideas similar to mine, trying to form their own rebellions to compete with Revdom. Not just one every few generations like there was in centuries past; a Hitler here, a Napoleon there, but hundreds at once. Your last name isn't Fisher, by any chance, is it? And your brother's name, is it Allan, and if not, does he plan to name any of his children that, or might any of his grandchildren be named that? And if it is, could you please tell me PRECISELY where you live so I can dispatch one of my Hunters to assassinate him soon, rather than having to fight his entire army hundreds of years from now?

 That's just one byproduct of what the so-called "Singularity", the dawning of the AI and Nano ages to come, will bring. But ultimately, all of these minor pretenders will destroy one another without doing too much damage to the physical world at large, and then only the major players will remain. Ultimately, all others will fall, and only the final dualistic two will remain to battle it out for humanity's soul. Remember that, in the end, Chaos will triumph over Order, Good will overcome Evil, those who try to impose their will on others will ultimately be overthrown by those who demand to be the pilots of their own courses, authors of their own destinies. The role of the Revs' "leader" is not to command or order, but instead to unite, to rally and inspire, to lead by example.

 If any of you are very interested, let me know. If you're willing to read a very long document, you can discover now what the future holds. I tell you now, though you may not believe me- what I would post is something that has been kept secret for nearly a 100 years, and is confirmed to have existed for at least 1200. Itsâ,¬,,¢ authenticity is unquestionable: it is a confirmably accurate prophecy written by an unknown seer with accurate, precise knowledge not only of the last 1000 years, which were the future for him or her, but even further into the future, our future.

 Notes on its' history and translation, also by an unidentified transcriber, indicate that it was originally found in Turkey as a lambskin scroll, written in Hebrew, which is itself thought to be not the original of the document. It was then translated into Latin, then old French, and finally a relatively archaic English version. It was rediscovered in modern times, hidden in a stack of suspected fake or unidentifiable manuscripts in a German (then Prussian) library sometime around 1904. Itsâ,¬,,¢ name in Latin is the Dossier Postremo, which roughly means "Book Of The Future". Everything that it said, described in accurate detail, about the last millennium of human history, from the Dark Ages to the Revolutionary War to 9/11 was all perfectly accurate. Would you like to see what it says about the next 1000 years?

 P.S. Also, your comment about Fight Club; I thought of all this before that guy, Chuck Palahutnik or whatever the hell his name was, even started writing that book. First time I saw that movie, I was annoyed about how it kind of ripped off my ideas: not exactly, because in that movie, he still didn't *GET* that it wasn't just about violence or temporary change or destroying the order only to let a new one be established but sort of, you know what, yeah, I am like that guy. Josh has spoken.

Lonligirl- then it probably doesn't matter to you, but it matters to the rest of humanity. And it could matter to you, you could help yourself if you were to realize something was wrong and convert now. I offer you, all of you this: Make the choice to join with those who want you to have one while you still do.

 Ticia- damn, you're a fool. I'm sure that, in your profound dimness, you indeed DON'T see. How do I have time? I also work a job over 50 hours a week....not that I want to, but I need the money. Have you considered that I'm just ridiculously smarter, more motivated and all-around better (at things, and just in general) than you and everyone else? Has it occurred to you that what you call "stalking" my beloved true soulmate, the future Queen, this, it's all one and the same, my life's mission, my purpose. My existence is a quest, a striving. I don't need a damn hobby, that's what you call a waste of time. I spend my life accomplishing more every month than most do their whole lifetimes. It may not seem like it to you, now, but you just wait and see what all that I accomplish blossoms into. You still haven't told me whether you'd like to read of the days to come or remain in ignorance of the future. Have any of you ever even taken the time to read what it says underneath my name instead of "Registered User"? What do you think the 3-letter *** word was before the site censored it? Just take a wild stab at it....Josh has spoken.

Here's the thing: you, fascism guy, I can only assume you support fascism. You're even more evil than most of these deluded, corrupted pawns. It won't be humorous when you pay the price for your unfortunate wickedness, it won't be humorous, it will just be another tragic loss. Such a waste, so unnecessary. Maybe you'll simply die of old age before it ever comes to that, but in any case....

 Ticia, you are truly a fool, you're entitled to your opinions, that goes without saying, but I find them utterly worthless, and if you try to enforce them upon others, that will not be tolerated. If they prevent or slow down the liberation of mankind, that will not be tolerated either. It's not a theory, it's a fact. All real, none of it spin. The word was God. I am become The God-Emperor of Existence. Let's see if it censors it here....Josh has spoken.

It's a historical reference, you dolts. Ever heard of the quote that J. Robert Oppenheimer recited as he watched the Trinity testing of the first nuclear bomb? "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds." Just astounding. Josh has spoken.

Nyxe- Why should everyone adhere to MY/ The Revs' teachings is because they are provably right, and simply this: that everyone should be able to do what they want. You can't disagree with this, no one can, it would be a contradiction in terms: No-one can mentally think, "What I want to do is to be able to not do what I want to do." They would STILL be doing what they wanted. THAT'S how I can empirically prove that the Rev philosophy is right for EVERYONE, only those who would want to impose their will upon others and take away their freedom would disagree with it, and they are evil. I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but it's a damn sight closer to it than this farce of group domination that supposedly offers "freedom" called democracy. And what starts as imperfect, I will always continue pushing it towards perfection, until, hopefully, someday, it reaches it. I believe that it will, but even if it doesn't, the attempt itself is worthwhile.

 Colzgirl- Yes, that IS how life's suppose to be. That's what I intend to fight for. That's the whole damn point.

 Abstracted_m- No, I don't have a website yet. In fact, that is the very first thing that we really need. An excellent website to distribute our message to all those around the world with a receptive ear, an uncanny knowledge, a feeling that things aren't right, and a desire to join the good fight, for themselves, and for us all. I'm not capable of making such a site myself, but I dearly, DEARLY hope that if any of you are interested in converting, you would be willing to help our Cause by devoting some of your time and energy to that worthy effort. That's the very first thing we need. Also, some of you will be dead in two centuries, but I will not, and even some of you, the younger amongst your number, may not. What kind of basis do I have for the crazy things that I'm "on about"? See for yourself:

 This is just a sample. "I think itâ,¬,,¢s reasonable to suppose that one could oscillate between being biologically 20 and biologically 25 indefinitely."
 -- Cambridge Biogerentology Professor Emeritus Aubrey de Grey

 Time may indeed be on your side. If you can just last another quarter century.

 By then, people will start lives that could last 1,000 years or more. Our human genomes will be modified to include the genetic material of microorganisms that live in the soil, enabling us to break down the junk proteins that our cells amass over time and which they canâ,¬,,¢t digest on their own. People will have the option of looking and feeling the way they did at 20 for the rest of their lives, or opt for an older look if they get bored. Of course, everyone will be required to go in for age rejuvenation therapy once every decade or so, but that will be a small price to pay for immortality."

 You can visit http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/ for more information. See? I'm not such a lunatic after all. What I talk about is all based in science and other types of rigorously confirmed factuality.

 Crazy_bastard- Actually, in the future, we won't be controlled by radio waves, we'll be controlled by a global, monolithic data network that absorbs everything into it and forces everything to conform to its' standards. The current world wide web, which I'm obviously using right now, is the forerunner to this. In the 90s, the internet was considered a frontier of freedom, like the Old West, where outlaws (hackers) were free to live beyond the confines of a system, and where data would be free, limitless, bottom-up, open-sourced, and controlled by everyone. Instead, the hackers all became security experts, in exchange for money, and the government and big corporations, and, eventually, all the little cliques of people: Society, conquered this new frontier too. Like they do every other. What approaches is the ages of nanotechnology and AI.

 Drawn by money, Society's little dangling lure, and conformity, their enforcing hand, they always are able to do this. Why? Why do they always win? Because never is there a force dedicated, powerful, organized, and equipped enough to truly challenge them on a total scale. Society vs. Non-Society (or Revdom). All-out war. Guess what? It IS coming, whether you believe it, whether you want it, or not. You are going to have you whole life devoted to one side or another, there's little way to avoid that: if not you, then your children. So what you have to decide is, is it worth giving up everything else just to fight for your freedom, or would you rather ignore it, let everything else (that was never really yours in the first place) be taken away slowly, so slow you can't see it happening, until you still end up devoting your whole life to something, only now what you're devoting your life to isn't yourself or anyone you care about, it's not anything good or anything free. It's Their order, Society's stagnation, and the ultimate death of not just humanity but the human spirit.

 Do they not realize that when they kill all thought by making it all the same, when they destroy all ideas, their system will still collapse anyway? It won't be able to support itself without adapting, and it will lose that ability. I submit to you that that is their plan all along. Society is a cancer of the human race: no cancer cell *realizes* that it's killing it's own organism, but that's what it's doing, it's killing itself, and that is what Society is trying to do: kill off humanity. It's been trying to do that since it first developed in some of the earliest animals, but back then it was just a tiny growth. Now that we've become intelligent, not just intelligent but TECHNOLOGICAL, it's spread everywhere. There's almost no chance of a cure, but almost no chance isn't the same thing as none. Revs are the cure. Be part of the cure. I could go on, page after page, explaining what the world really is, trying to help those who can't see it be able to, but I think I've said enough for now. I'll let those who are interested absorb this, those who are enemies sneer and mock, and those who are indifferent hopefully begin to think. I will continue in the next post.

 Just by the way though, we won't be controlled by radio waves. That's very difficult, probably impossible. We will be controlled by being forced to merge with our machines, like in The Matrix and Terminator, the machines attack us? The machines are a metaphor for the system, for Society. Ultimately, WE are the machines: rigid and unbending, it's Order itself that is our foe. There are already parts of every part of us that can be replaced with machines. Over the course of the days to come, they will try to force us all to merge with our technology. Again I can cite precedent, not just crazy predictions.

Ok. I read your setting. It seems so far to be an imitation of a series of posts on message boards made by Josh, who I take it is important. Cool formad, indicates this is going to be a modern setting. Sure, the idea of message board post intro was lifted directly from Shadowrun, but that's ok. I did the same thing when I made a modern setting, it's a good method.

However, three posts, and I don't see the setting yet. I see the ramblings of Josh. I 'get' that he is anti society, all society, everywhere at all times. Course, that's ironic, since these Revs are

Quote from: dictionary.comAn organization or association of persons engaged in a common profession, activity, or interest

â,¬' by definition, a society. But I donâ,¬,,¢t see the setting. What is the location? Earth, Iâ,¬,,¢m assuming from the phony URL, but thatâ,¬,,¢s about all I can figure out. What are the classes? D20 Modern or Future? What are the races? Just humans? Fantasy races? Alien races? What about magic? Psionics? You raise more questions than you answer.

[ic=Out Of Character]Yeah, sorry about the length....I did a full chapter of this, a la the beginning of the World of Darkness campaigns, the new editions, that have about 15 pages of flavor text before they even get to the table of contents or any crunch.

To answer your questions quickly (I was going to put in a little explainor for impatient message board crowds, a little different from just picking up a fully-written campaign book where you can just skip ahead and see what's up, anyway, now even before you posted asking, so, funny how things work out):

Revolution has been a constant throughout human history. It is inevitable that some day a group of people will revolt against the idea of society itself, in what amounts to the final revolution. This is the story of that day. Two centuries from now, the world is finally and totally ripped asunder by a war the savagery and destruction of which have never been seen before. The opponents in this struggle are the structured Socs, fighting desperately to enforce and preserve their way of life and the fanatical Revs, chaotic transhumanist rebels who have vowed to claw out their freedom at any cost. The prize at stake is the very viewpoint and philosophy we will take to the stars and of course, as always, the fate of mankind itself, and perhaps, ultimately, all things.

The location is Earth, circa 23rd century AD, or 2nd century NH. Uses Future as a base system, as I get to saying down further into it, actually when I started writing it, future wasn't even out yet, so it referred to it as 'upcoming', I should probably change that....The races are genetically created branches of human ancestors, which, from a certain perspective, could be seen as bearing a similarity to some fantasy races. There's no magic, but there are lost of FX-like powers (abilities) granted by various technologies, notably psionics, although I'm going to houserule it, renamed Telek powers, and it works differently.

Also, lots of people say that same thing. The Revs don't care about *that* definition of society. It's the 'common cultural mores, norms, and requirements' one they're rebelling against. Nice try, though. And of course I raise more questions than I answer....that way you gotta keep reading to find out what the story is.[/ic]

That is dark! In fact, if you were to strip the message board style back to the pure narrative, it has chilling echoes of the tone and delivery of Mein Kampf. I have already built up a strong contempt for the pretentious nature of this Josh and his radical dangerous musings. If I was starting a character in this setting I get the feeling I'd end up coming face to face with Josh after a while, and not over tea and scones.

There is nothing here that tells me about the core elements of this campaign setting such as classes or environments and precious little about the themes presented within, but I appreciate that part would come later. I suggest that the unconventional and almost overwhelming nature of the material presented here would be enough to turn a lot of people away, but I am imagining a campaign sourcebook where the rules and tables are accompanied throughout with a running narrative, perhaps in sidebars or similar, detailing the ranting of this Josh person. Is that what you had in mind? How far developed is this setting, and can we see more?

[ic=Out Of Character]Actually Josh's chapter serves as an introduction, like I said in my last post ("I did a full chapter of this"), with, as you said, rules and races and all of that following afterwards. If you have already built up a great contempt for Josh, then (does his best Jeff Foxworthy voice)....you might be a Soc. Here's your character sheet. Ahh, seriously though, the setting is pretty far developed, you'll just have to make it through the rantings of Josh- I want to present it in its' full, unedited form so you can fully appreciate the later importance of what he's saying now. Just bear with me....[/ic]

"A "brain chip" could be used to replace the "memory centre" in patients affected by strokes, epilepsy or Alzheimer's disease, it has been claimed.

 US scientists say a silicon chip could be used to replace the hippocampus, where the storage of memories is coordinated."

 What they will ultimately end up controlling us with, though, is nanomachines. When the whole atmosphere, the ocean, the surface of every object and the bloodstream of every organism on earth is saturated with nano- (that's one billion of a meter. Written with nanometer letters, a lexicon of 20 volumes would not take up more space than the tip of a pin.) scale machines capable of manipulating objects, including our brains, on a molecular scale, none of us will be able to think anything but what Society programs us to think. Once that happens, it will already be too late. I am the only one who is trying to make our last stand while we still can, very few others even have any inkling that this is going on, and of those, no others seem to put all the pieces together. What you really need to read is the Dossier Postremo itself. The full accounting of what the future holds may amaze you more than you can imagine. I post it here, now, because this rebellion needs to dawn here and now if we are to have any hope. Make the choice to join with those who want you to have one while you still do. Josh has spoken.

Ghostcommander- The answers to your questions are really contained in The Dossier. I'll let that arcane document speak for me on these matters.

 Crazy_Bastard again- No, I am most certainly not a Christian. I'm a Divinist, a religion that forms a major part of Revism, one based upon faith in science and reason instead of myth and illogic.

 Reichstagburner- By not rebelling, you are rebelling against my rebellion. Now that's the highest form of rebellion there is!! Actually, sitting still isn't the highest form of moving there is. Your logic is shot. By just reframing being a Soc as rebelling against rebellion, youâ,¬,,¢re not really changing anything. Youâ,¬,,¢re still a slave to Order, and an enemy to those who crave freedom.

 Nyxe again- Your comments here illustrate perfectly a critical point about why it's going to be so difficult to save and liberate mankind. Our army can't consist of disgruntled teenagers with a 5-moth-long "stage" of wanting to â,¬Å"upset the orderâ,¬Â in some minor way- although they'd make the best recruits. What we need is a full-on crusade that can go for millennia if it has to, an entire race so committed to clawing out their freedom at any cost that they will sacrifice everything rather than go back to slavery. How can we get that? How can we make people realize? That is the ultimate question. If I can figure out the answer to that question, how to get through to everyone, what psychological means can begin to reverse hundreds of thousands of years of ingrained negative conditioning....then this race might still have a chance.

 Kaboom- Once again, I'll refer you to the Dossier, upcoming, for your answer.

 Nyxe yet again- The role of the Revs' "leader" is not to command or order, but instead to unite, to rally and inspire, to lead by example.

 And finally, Militant- I'm very flattered you said that. I absolutely should remind you of the fanatical, bible-clutching Christian fundamentalist lunatics blaring hellfire and the wrath of god. The whole strength of Revdom is taking the enemies' own weapons and turning them against them. We have to be much MORE fanatical than the most fanatical Soc fanatic, only instead of FORCING people to do what they don't WANT, we've got to FORCE them into doing what they DO want. They're literally so brainwashed, most of them, that we have to MAKE them do what they themselves want! That's the extent to which Society has twisted the pure spirit of mankind. This is what we must do now to fight back. I'm sorry, you can't beat war with peace. They've tried that so many times. Usually, war only leads to more war, but if a war is won, truly over and won, lasting peace and freedom can be built.

 And Mike5055- You are deliberately using that quote SO out of context. Read the rest of the damn paragraph that it's drawn from. Damn.

 Up next, the Dossier Postremo itself. Then you'll all see what the hell I'm really talking about. Who's the Revs' leader? Who the hell am I? I am. Me, Josh. Josh has spoken.

Alright, you misguided, deluded, infected, corrupted pawns. Time for me to *TRY* to help you, yet again. I say try....Pyro, you think I have delusions of grandeur? ;) Well, as they say with paranoia, it's only a delusion if it's not true. I don't think I'm much greater, more powerful, or more influential than I really am, I simply know how great, powerful, and influential I am destined to become, AND I can prove it beyond all conceivable doubt. Only I have the necessary capabilities to lead humanity to victory and glory over the forces that assail it from within and without, of all the people who are currently alive, ever were, or ever will be, only I can get the job done. That's a pretty bold statement for anyone to make, and I may seem to you like just some deluded punk on the internet. It's understandable to doubt me. But as I said before, I'm prepared to back up every crazy-sounding claim I make with hard evidence and irrefutable proof, or I would not make it in the first place. You have my personal guarantee on that.

 The following is extracted from the Dossier Postremo, as I said before, this eldritch document, written at least 12, possibly many more, centuries ago, has accurately predicted history from the dawn of time up until present day, and it continues on millennia further into the future from the present. There is every reason to expect its documentation of historical events after 2005 AD (19 NH) will prove just as accurate as those before. Read it if you even can, and prepare to be....well, just prepare for the future, I guess, is all I can say.

May I just suggest that you use IC tags so we can understand when you're talking to us, Manowater?  i'm having trouble understanding your posts.  for example [ic=Natural 20]I am demonstrating ic tags[/ic]
[ooc]I am speaking to the CBg, hence OOc[/ooc]

[ic=Out Of Character]Ok....I've never encountered them before though lol. How do you do them?[/ic]

[ic=Out Of Character]Is there going to be an answer forthcoming?[/ic]

QuoteIt is inevitable that some day a group of people will revolt against the idea of society itself,

Thus, becoming not the end of society, but a new society....

Use [ic=X] (where X is the title) for the green box, and [ooc] for the red box (with fixed title). Don't forget to close them with [ / ic ] or [ / ooc ] (remove spaces).
Túrin

Sorry, forgot about that post...  Turin got it right.  If you need anymore help with tags, go to my tutorial in the Cogs forum.  aptly titled "Tables, Notes, and spoilers, oh my!" or something to that effect...