The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: Halfling Fritos

Quote from: NomadicOn another note I have never seen extensive training used in the animal kingdom. Please direct me to the proper resources if I am wrong but you don't see many animals training themselves both mentally and physically to the point where they go beyond their base abilities. Examples here being our self conditioning via things such as boot camp and martial arts training in order to more efficiently control our bodies. Likewise you have things like bodybuilders and gymnasts that can pull off incredible feats of strength and agility. On the agility note too, you don't see many animals (there are a few though) that have the coordination to do something like the uneven bars.

They do. The first difference is that they don't do it with the conscious intent of improvement, and the second difference is that their training is more practice-oriented. They don't use the push-up in any survival maneuver, so they don't use it in their training. Don't believe me? Watch kittens "play". Sneaking, pouncing, batting around, biting... that's training hunting skills.

That is a very good point. I suppose the difference there is just that human abstract thought enables us to plan ahead and train in ways that most creatures wouldn't think of.

Quote from: NomadicThat is a very good point. I suppose the difference there is just that human abstract thought enables us to plan ahead and train in ways that most creatures wouldn't think of.

or simply train the skills we need in the near future rather than an entire set of skills, i.e. short term specialization.

Time for story hour, kids...

Simulation Semantics
A couple of years ago, scientists were doing experiments on monkeys to determine exactly how the brain controls motor neurons to move various parts of the body.

One day, while a monkey's brain and arm was hooked up for an experiment, a scientist decided to take a break and get a doughnut.  As he reached down for the doughnut, he noticed the monkey was watching him.  Not really out of the ordinary.  The readings for the monkey's brain and motor neuron outputs, however, were completely unexpected.

As the scientist picked up the doughnut, the monkey watching him activated all the neurons, both in the brain and in the arm, involved with picking something up.  These neurons, however, did not fire as intensely as when the monkey was actually picking something up.

Thus, the theory of simulation semantics emerged.  Basically, simulation semantics says that we understand meaning in the world through simulations our brains run.  If I think about jumping up and down, all the neurons in the brain and in my legs involved with jumping will fire at a very low level.  The same is involved in speech.  If I tell you "I jumped up and down yesterday," not only am I remembering as well as simulating this, you are also simulating this.  In fact, by reading that, you would be simulating it.

Metaphorical terms are simulated in a similar manner.  In English, we conceive of time as linear motion.  The future is ahead, the past is behind, and the preset is where we currently are.  We can be doing the motion (i.e. "I've breezed through the past couple of years.")  or time itself can be doing the motion (i.e. "Finals week is sneaking up on us.").  In both instances, we simulate not the abstract concept of time, but the very real concept of linear motion.

It's a bit mind blowing.

That does in part have to do with the constraints of our reality. With everything that we experience we experience it in a linear fashion. That is because the reality we perceive works linearly. So even with abstract thought we have to put things into linear terms in order to get our heads around it. This is why there are so many paradoxes. The paradox violated a rule based on linear concepts and we can't get our head around the non-linear possibilities.

Quote from: NomadicThat does in part have to do with the constraints of our reality. With everything that we experience we experience it in a linear fashion. That is because the reality we perceive works linearly. So even with abstract thought we have to put things into linear terms in order to get our heads around it. This is why there are so many paradoxes. The paradox violated a rule based on linear concepts and we can't get our head around the non-linear possibilities.

only[/i] in English.

Time in Navajo is metaphorically conceived of in the opposite directions: the past is in front and the future is behind.  Time in Chinese is metaphorically conceived of vertically: the past is below and the future is above.  Time in Mesoamerican cultures (e.g. Aztec and Mayan cultures) operates in a wholly different fashion: it is cyclical.

Time here would be called the target domain; the thing your talking about.  In English, linear motion would be called the source domain.  You map the source domain to the target domain to make a metaphor.

And I'd say we don't simply experience everything linearly.  If we couldn't get our head around non-linear concepts, we'd have a lot of trouble.  Every person who has learned the modern Gregorian calender system, for example, knows that the year starts over every 365 (or 366) days.  Even more complicated would be the week, which isn't mapped to any observable, natural cycle, and starts over every 7 days.

Quote from: limetomTime in Mesoamerican cultures (e.g. Aztec and Mayan cultures) operates in a wholly different fashion: it is cyclical.

Beat me to it. Western culture is skewed to see time as linear while other cultures do different things. The Aztec and the Spanish had a very hard time relating to one another because their cultures, and the way each perceived the world, were so very different. Take a good look at an Aztec map and try to make heads or tails of it. Fundamentally, they viewed the world in a different way.

Personally, i think this is a strength of humanity. We're not bound to a single point of view but can, through abstract reasoning, extrapolate many different ways to view time and space.

Quote from: Map of Tenochtitlan

(Protip: East is up.)

Quote from: limetomAnd I'd say we don't simply experience everything linearly. If we couldn't get our head around non-linear concepts, we'd have a lot of trouble.  Every person who has learned the modern Gregorian calender system, for example, knows that the year starts over every 365 (or 366) days.  Even more complicated would be the week, which isn't mapped to any observable, natural cycle, and starts over every 7 days.

But note that when getting our head around something non-linear we use linear concepts. Note that cycles are still linear. I am not talking linear in the sense of drawing a line. This is linear in terms of one thing following another. A week cycles, so does a year (as do all other units of measurable time). However, it all follows a certain flow. If it didn't you wouldn't be able to tell time.

Quote from: NomadicBut note that when getting our head around something non-linear we use linear concepts. Note that cycles are still linear. I am not talking linear in the sense of drawing a line. This is linear in terms of one thing following another. A week cycles, so does a year (as do all other units of measurable time). However, it all follows a certain flow. If it didn't you wouldn't be able to tell time.

Yeah, sure, I guess.

Quote from: limetom

Quote from: Elemental_Elf

I know. Its like the T & O maps, really. They're conceptual maps of how the culture views the world and the heavens. I suppose it isn't really a map, per se, just a map of the heavens and the gods.

Also, you've mentioned that these maps top is oriented East. That isn't that odd actually. Many European maps (Mappa Mundi) were oriented that way because the North, prior to magnets and compasses, was of little interest compared to the East, where the Sun rose each morning. I actually really like the old  

I think our ability to adapt has to be stronger than other animals. Some other animals use tools, and I've seen programs that show chimps modifying their tools (bending sticks, debarking them), but none go to the lengths we do. Even "back in the day", we chipped rocks to create blades which allowed us to efficiently butcher animals so we could take the food away from the carcass that attracted scavangers.

But language is definately what let us become what we are today.

As an aside, I watched a program on animal emotions and thought, which had one segment about a particular dolphin. This dolphin knew 30 tricks, and its trainers put it through an experiment. Each day the feeder would come out with his bucket of fish to feed the dolphin. But the feeder wouldn't feed the dolphin until it did a trick. So the dolphin did a backflip.

Next day the feeder came out and the dolphin did a backflip right away, but the feeder didn't feed it; the experiment called for him to wait for the dolphin to do a different trick. Confused, the dolphin flipped a few more times before it apparently realized that food wasn't coming, so it did a different trick. The feeder then fed it.

This continued for a month, with the dolphin exhausting the tricks it was taught. Apparently, the dolphin then began to mix the tricks together, and even create wholly new tricks, so that it would continue getting fed.

So we aren't the only ones with creativity. We have probably the most complex creativity (this website showcases that), but at least one other animal does as well.

And a point on language. The same program had a segment on a family of gorillas that all know sign language. Apparently the children of the gorillas that were taught by people use a fair portion of the signs the adults were taught. They even have observed the gorillas using signs with each other, and even with themselves (one gorilla was filmed playing with a black elephant figurine, and it kept signing "black, black" and then it got frustrated and threw it and signed "stupid").

One of the old female gorillas of this band (it might have been a different group) got very frustrated when one of the scientists went away for a long time. When she came back, the female gorilla was at first angry and didn't want to "talk" with her. But the scientist then signed to the gorilla that "her baby had died", and the gorilla quickly showed sympathy and even signed "cry".

I know that my pet rats even have actions that we attribute to emotions, even those that aren't related to food. One of them in particular will always clean herself where we can see her (she looks really cute when she does so, so we always give her attention), and will not leave you alone until you take her out of the cage and let her be a part of whatever you're doing (she'll sleep on my player's shoulders while we're playing D&D; otherwise she'll chew on her cage's bars and make all kinds of racket).

Aside from Elephants apparently recognizing the bones of other Elephants, I'm pretty sure we're the only animals aware of our mortality. Sure, other animals will generally try to avoid things that will kill it (unless the alternative is more certain death), but our realization has probably led us to some advances.

Quote from: Kapn XeviatOne of the old female gorillas of this band (it might have been a different group) got very frustrated when one of the scientists went away for a long time. When she came back, the female gorilla was at first angry and didn't want to "talk" with her. But the scientist then signed to the gorilla that "her baby had died", and the gorilla quickly showed sympathy and even signed "cry".

Aside from Elephants apparently recognizing the bones of other Elephants, I'm pretty sure we're the only animals aware of our mortality. Sure, other animals will generally try to avoid things that will kill it (unless the alternative is more certain death), but our realization has probably led us to some advances.

Those two paragraphs appear to contradict. Elephants aren't so much renowned for recognizing bones of the same species (my dog can do that), but appearing to have long and intense grieving periods.

I don't believe animals know that they themselves can die but they are aware of the disappearance (i.e. death) of others, which causes intense feelings of loss. Dogs have such feelings, I mean have you ever babysat for a dog whose owner went on vacation? They often mope around and appear anxious at the perceived loss of their of their friend & master.

Higher order mammals, like apes, will obviously manifest the same emotions but in a much more significant way because they have bigger, more powerful brains.

Quote from: Stargate525

Quote from: Kapn XeviatOne of the old female gorillas of this band (it might have been a different group) got very frustrated when one of the scientists went away for a long time. When she came back, the female gorilla was at first angry and didn't want to "talk" with her. But the scientist then signed to the gorilla that "her baby had died", and the gorilla quickly showed sympathy and even signed "cry".

Aside from Elephants apparently recognizing the bones of other Elephants, I'm pretty sure we're the only animals aware of our mortality. Sure, other animals will generally try to avoid things that will kill it (unless the alternative is more certain death), but our realization has probably led us to some advances.

Those two paragraphs appear to contradict. Elephants aren't so much renowned for recognizing bones of the same species (my dog can do that), but appearing to have long and intense grieving periods.

Also, I saw a show on the Discovery channel about some type of monkey, and when one of the children was killed (I think in a food battle, but it's been awhile), the mother recognized that her child died. I don't know how "intense" the grieving period was, but there certainly was greiving to some degree.