The Campaign Builder's Guild

[ooc]So far, I butchered the mythology of the world into a dark comedy.  The world is a battleground between the forces of Richard (born from a diagram of God=Dick) and Lucy (Lucifer as a feminist).  One player is determined to play Jack the Ripper and another is interested in playing a Vampire, and the the third a top-hat wearing elephant (Ever read "The Elephant Tower" by Robert E. Howard?).  I see the game playing out as an attempt to create Armageddon by tapping into the hidden supernatural resources and beings who were stuck on the mortal world after the war in heaven left said world isolated.

Mind you, I made liberal adjustments to the source material in order to make the game work.  I'm currently hacking out a system using the stats you mentioned, a magic channeling system based on Sacrifice and deriving benefits from acting against The Authority.  I'm also looking to tie M:tG's system of mana into the stat system because the 5 color pie idea seems similar and practical.  Not a literal translation of the colors of course, but utilizing the principles of connected attributes.  Mostly though, it's d20+mods vs. DC for now.[/ooc]

Wow, didn't see this first time around--traveling abroad then--but it sure looks cool.

[ooc]That sounds really really cool, Rose!  I like your interpretation of the mythology a lot, and your players sound really into it.  Dark comedy is definitely one of the playing styles I was thinking of when I wrote this intially.[/ooc]

Hm.
I've read through this on three different nights.  Still need a lot more data to like it or not, though the basics are VERY attractive.

1) I'd change the focus of the game to include playing mortals and agants of the authority.  I think that may move the game from the status of 'amusing distraction game to play once in between games' to 'possible campaign' status.  You always seem to have a good grasp of the slippery logic of factions, I'd use it.

2)Since this is a game based on a version of earth, with the main foundation built on jeudo-christian mythos, you will need to explain the place of all the other religions of the world.  DO they have power, or not?  Distractions or old fights between the Authority and the Adversary, or are there other forces at work?

3) 'Souls as currency'.  This term brings up a whole host (pun intended) of issues.  What place do the souls of the pure have?  Can the souls of the dead be used?  Can an agent of the Adversary call on the soul of Sargent, to teach a mortal artsist to hone his craft?  Do the souls of the good and pure (and do we need to get into what really makes a soul pure?  Probably) ascend to heaven?  I see this as a real problem as you have spent much of the description calling the Authority's published view one sided and you have (rightfully, for game design) put the focus on more morala ambiguity.  SO I am going to have to reccomend creating a reality that avoids, "Good souls go to heaven, bad and corrupted souls go to hell", and continue to focus on more of the chaos vs order thing.

4) DO you plan to have character ability/potency increases as time goes on?

5) Gellman's Book "Angler" makes more sense now. I will probably spend the rest of today looking at politics through this lens.

[ooc][blockquote=Vreeg]1) I'd change the focus of the game to include playing mortals and agants of the authority. I think that may move the game from the status of 'amusing distraction game to play once in between games' to 'possible campaign' status. You always seem to have a good grasp of the slippery logic of factions, I'd use it.[/blockquote]I like the idea of angelic characters who might be demonic sympathizers or something similar.  I can see major mortal NPCs as well, or perhaps superhumans of some variety (Nephilim or uber-powerful spellcasters for example) but not standard mortalsas Pcs - they wouldn't be powerful enough to fit with what I have in mind. [blockquote=ibid]2)Since this is a game based on a version of earth, with the main foundation built on jeudo-christian mythos, you will need to explain the place of all the other religions of the world. DO they have power, or not? Distractions or old fights between the Authority and the Adversary, or are there other forces at work?[/blockquote]This is a really, really good point and one I hadn't considered.  I suppose I could go the Sandman/American Gods pan-cosmological route and incorporate other genuine supernatural entities, but I think more likely will be that all of the major religions have things wrong, its just that the Judeo-Christian theology is closest, or something like that. [blockquote=ibid]3) 'Souls as currency'. This term brings up a whole host (pun intended) of issues. What place do the souls of the pure have? Can the souls of the dead be used? Can an agent of the Adversary call on the soul of Sargent, to teach a mortal artsist to hone his craft? Do the souls of the good and pure (and do we need to get into what really makes a soul pure? Probably) ascend to heaven? I see this as a real problem as you have spent much of the description calling the Authority's published view one sided and you have (rightfully, for game design) put the focus on more morala ambiguity. SO I am going to have to reccomend creating a reality that avoids, "Good souls go to heaven, bad and corrupted souls go to hell", and continue to focus on more of the chaos vs order thing.[/blockquote]The idea is that only the souls of the dead really count because while someone's alive they can still achieve "redemption".  Whether someone goes to Paradise or the Abyss will be a function not of a straightforward morality system but much more a chaos/order thing, very gray. Good and evil aren't moral attributes per se, but certain behaviors will be approved of by the bullying but powerful Authority who decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.  Things like blind faith, zealotry, complacency, self-abjection, and submission will be "rewarded" whereas the pursuit of personal pleasure, self-development, and transgressions against the Authority's dogmatic system of tenets would "corrupt" a mortal soul.  Note the quotation marks.[blockquote=ibid]4) DO you plan to have character ability/potency increases as time goes on?[/blockquote]Yes.  I was thinking of using the FATE system and customizing it as I went.  Basically, attributes would improve over time, and perhaps I could incorporate a system of special abilities/spells or something.  Honesty, though, I'm more interested in Rose of Montague's system and how that works out.  If it works out well, perhaps he'll let me know the details :) [/ooc]

[ooc]I wasn't actually planning on building in a character advancement system.  The system would work in a similar way to D&D in that advancement is gear-based, but less to the extent of the armory carrying warrior.  Each character is a force to be reckoned with, and the gathering of ancient artifacts or the blessings of Heathen gods would grant boons to an already valid threat.  The campaign won't go more than three semesters if all goes well, and I don't see the lack of advancement being a problem since the campaign will center on the negotiations between Richard and Lucy's forces than actual battle on the part of the Players.[/ooc]

[ooc]Steerpike, it sounds to me like your system for determining the fate of souls might be better labeled as allegiance or fidelity than morality. OTOH it may not be well to pick a word that implies conscious preference toward the Authority or the Adversary. After all, human beings are very good at convincing themselves that their actions and thoughts are in accordance with what ever ideals they believe in, even when they are twisting their interpretations to justify convenient but questionable acts.[/ooc]

[ooc]Very good point Ghostman... it definitely doesn't do to simply pay lip service to one side or the other. [/ooc]

Yeah, after me spending years trashing alignments on most threads as a crutch and as given to less mature games, you DID manage to come up with a premise that will require a GM to spend a lot of time with an alignment/allegiance system.  Nice Job.  
I'm still ruminating over the type of system, but since one of the cornerstones of this game is that souls are real and that they can be judged, suddenly the scale on which that is done has some weight, in terms of a game mechanic.

[ooc]I guess the way I'm interpreting it is that the whole point is that the "alignment" distinctions are unjust impositions and can be interrogated; there are two "teams" or sides rather than genuine ethical absolutes.  I think I actually mentioned Tempter in one of my alignment-bashing rants.

Souls are real and can be judged but they aren't necessarily judged justly.  The central conflict is all about a punishment usually considered just that I'm spinning as unjust for the purposes of the campaign; or, put another way, the "good" decided upon by the reigning power is being hotly contested.[/ooc]

Quote from: Steerpike[ooc]I guess the way I'm interpreting it is that the whole point is that the "alignment" distinctions are unjust impositions and can be interrogated; there are two "teams" or sides rather than genuine ethical absolutes.  I think I actually mentioned Tempter in one of my alignment-bashing rants.

Souls are real and can be judged but they aren't necessarily judged justly.  The central conflict is all about a punishment usually considered just that I'm spinning as unjust for the purposes of the campaign; or, put another way, the "good" decided upon by the reigning power is being hotly contested.[/ooc]

So the 'scales' are rigged by the winners of the older battle.  Such is how history is written.
Souls are real, but the scales are fixed...interesting.

You know this DOES kind of go together with an old setting I wrote, "Lord of the Morning"....

[ooc]Lord of the Morning, eh?  Sounds cool, care to elaborate?[/ooc]

Eldo and I were going over some of the particulars last night.

The main idea centers around the winners being able to write the history books.  This is the case in the Angel Wars, only the history that hs been written is masked in the trappings of religion.

Lucifer was actually God's first son, his most cherished creation.  And as many children are wont to do, he rebelled.  He told his father he could do a better job ennobling mortalkind.  ANd so God, in his great wisdom, created a fortress for Lucifer, and allowed him to try.  And in various and sundry cultures, he did try, sometimes doing better than the estasblishment of heaven, most of the time, going too far and ending up being called Hades or something.  But the give and take actually brought mankind along out of savagery quickly.

But while Lucifer and his father played their game of chess, the Archangels, the leaders of the hosts of Heaven, rebelled and cast God down into imprisonment.  They dissaproved of God's amicable contest with his son, and before Lucifer could help his father, the coup had succeeded, and Lucifer was only spared by locking himself and his few allies behind the walls of the fortress his father had created for him.  The Archangels, though not evil, had no agenda to raise mankind up, but instead wanted to keep them under supervision and bring them along in a very controlled pace.

So the Archangels and the new aristocracy of heaven had access to the mortal world, but Lucifer and his had to secretly, quietly make thier own visitations.  And the powers of heaven were in a position to have great religious tracts written, in which they perjured Lucifer and the contest that he had had with his father.  The secretly eged on one religion then another, keping mortals fighting each other in the name of 'God'.  Lucifer's attempts to battle them, to try to save mankind from their overly structured ways, are normally fruitless.  He is Mithras, and Loki, and countless others in the works that mortals write in their attempts to understand the angelic conflicts.

During one particular pyhrric victory, God's other son, Jesus, escapes down to earth but loses much of his memory.  Lucifer expends much of his remaining resources fighting his former tutors for the soul of his brother, who they try to set up as the King of the World.  Lucifer's brother allows himself to be slain instead, and though the Archangels take his soul, the story of redemption is written.  
However, that victory is short lived, as the heavenly bureaocracy interferes with all the writings, creating a new church that will combat progress.  Lucifer has lost his father and his brother, and only the defection of the Archangel Uriel to his side keeps him from absolute despair.

The current story starts with the Lord of the Morning trying to end the Dark Ages and stop the Crusades that Heaven is spurring on from both sides.  Gabriel fears that the Muslims are learning too much, too fast, and is afraid that the Lord of the Morning is helping them (and he is right), so Gabriel has taken a direct hand and has been sending dreams to the Pope and agents in the christian church.  
Lucifer is a tragic, tragic figure in this, vilified and with traces of his old arrogance (from the days when he thought he knew better than his father) still present.  Can the Lord of the Morning end the long night of ignorance?  [spoiler] also wrote some old notes about doing this in the Age of Enlightenment and in the Industrial Revolution.[/spoiler]

[ooc]Added a section on "The Elder Ones," manifestations of raw primordial chaos, the indigenous inhabitants of Hell.  They don't like the demons (who they view as colonists) or the angels, either; they want to unmake the cosmos and force Creation to revert back to its primeval formlessness.  They have mortal cults that want the same thing, and both angels and demons will put aside their differences to stop the Elder Ones from enacting their plans.[/ooc]

Quote from: Steerpikeboth angels and demons will put aside their differences to stop the Elder Ones from enacting their plans.

Not quite sure what to think about that :-|

Somehow it would seem more appropriate and underlining the fundamentalist nature of the schism that even such a common threat would fail to break the enmity.