The Campaign Builder's Guild

It depends on what is meant by unrealistic. A lack of internal consistency on any level begins to degrade my interest.

On the other hand, if you meteors spontaneously turn into bunny rabbits, that may not be realistic, but if it's the kind of thing that happens in your setting, that's okay.

Edit: typo fix

So long as unrealistic, in the sense of magical or fantastical, is differentiated from illogical or insensible, then I don't lose interest at all - quite the opposite.

So as long as I set a president for it, keep it consistent, and make it work logically?

I ask because in the stuff people have been telling me to think about, such as the multiple nations, I've noticed times when it seems that sticking closely to that sort of thinking makes it seem as if travel across more than one planet (even across one planet) would be an arduous affair of constantly checking at borders'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦just a multiplication of the troubles that happen during international travels in RL.

What I'm wondering is if it would be acceptable to gloss over that stuff for the sake of the story?

So long as those things are sort of present I'm sure you wouldn't need to go into detail about them, and certainly as a player I wouldn't mind glossing that sort of thing over either, even if I was aware that the border stuff was there.

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawWhile I'm remembering, would some unrealistic things really be that bad?  What is your personal point at which I'd loose your interest for having unrealistic stuff going on?

as soon as it gets so arbitrary that the dm cannot hide he's beeing hateful or railroading. as the rest has said: internal consistency.
also, it's "precedent", not "president" :D

Quote from: NomadicAdditionally, a portal being in a hostile environment won't be a guaranteed stopper to large expansion. If the area has valuable resources then the city is going to expand through the portal. Remember that this isn't two cities separated by great distance, this is one super city with a choke point in the center. In the case of a hostile but useful planet the city on the safe side would be pretty normal while on the hostile side you would have something akin to a giant industrial sector. However nothing stops the industrial side from getting huge since residents can easily just hop on over to the other side for a bit of relaxation, they don't have to 'live' there.

That is pretty much what I was after with my colony example, though I think it would be easier to build houses (and set up any needed services, entertainment etc) for people working on the industrial side and just deliver supplies through the portal. Of course this depends on the actual size of the portal.

The important point about my example was that the environment can affect whether the city on one side would be able to expand to the other side - in the absense of significant barriers, the natives of the other planet would probably be able to take control of their side of the portal, thus preventing said expansion. All assuming that there's no huge technological (or magic) gap between the two.

Quote from: Gnome NachosInstead, when a portal is discovered, a building is erected around it, basically an Airport (but for portals not airplanes). This airport has similar security measures as our airports, things such as Customs, Passports, etc. etc. Certain parts of the day are for civilian travelers, and certain parts are for traders.

When you walk through the portal, which feels just like walking through a door from one room to the other, you appear in another Airport millions of light years away, with similar defenses against attacks. It's safe, and it takes away a little bit of the danger.

That's good thinking. It would seem strange for people to not set up things something like that.

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawI ask because in the stuff people have been telling me to think about, such as the multiple nations, I've noticed times when it seems that sticking closely to that sort of thinking makes it seem as if travel across more than one planet (even across one planet) would be an arduous affair of constantly checking at borders'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦just a multiplication of the troubles that happen during international travels in RL.

What I'm wondering is if it would be acceptable to gloss over that stuff for the sake of the story?

Sure. It's not like one needs to describe using the toilet either, unless it's somehow going to be significant for the story. :-p If you need to have people going from planet to planet, you can just assume that they went through the customs and all's fine. But if it's a group of "wanted" people trying to escape across borders, it would be good to know what kinds of challenges they're going to face.

Some additional thoughts on portals:
There would probably have to be some sort of membrane or the  like or otherwise planets with different atmospheres would exchange air.
Are there portals that interconnect countries on the same world instead of just portals between different worlds?
Do dead-end portals exist? portals that lead into a star, deep underwater, high up in the air, or the vacuum of space?
Do they have the technology to shut down dangerous portals?
How long does a portal last?
Since the portals are natural, it seems logical that not all of them go somewhere useful. I already have a picture of groups of protective suit-wearing portal explorers sticking a long pressure-and-heat probe into an un-identified portal.  Of course, they might decide to leave useless gates open anyway. Portals to space might lead to the easy deployment of astronomical satellites, portals into the air enable unassisted lift-off (sort of), portals deep underwater can be used for exploration in submarines and the like, and portals into the depth of a sun can be used to reenact the plot of Sunshine without all the hassle.
I think i remember you writing in what i reckon was the parent thread for this one that portals only appear near sources of gravity. Is this still in effect, or is it something you have reconsidered?

EDIT: if the portals appear at random it might be necessary as there is vastly more empty space than there is matter. I reckon that was your reason for that limitation. But so as not to limit yourself you could just make it more likely that they appear near matter.  

Quote from: GhostmanSure. It's not like one needs to describe using the toilet either, unless it's somehow going to be significant for the story. :-p If you need to have people going from planet to planet, you can just assume that they went through the customs and all's fine. But if it's a group of "wanted" people trying to escape across borders, it would be good to know what kinds of challenges they're going to face.

Part of it is that in RL that you can fly over countries in planes and you only have to do the customs thing at the ends.  With all this talk about the portals and their limits I wasn't sure whether the network could support something similar, probably in the form of trains.

That might actually solve some problems of transportation: you put a rail line through the portal and you have an easy way to transport both cargo and passengers at that same time.  Travel further than one hop would be like a plane in that you can go through all the countries between destinations so long as you don't leave the trainport without passing through customs.

@Crippled Crow: First answering an earlier question:
What portals look like: A portal in its usual closed mode is nearly invisible.  If you get close enough you may notice a distortion of light in a one-dimensional area, possibly seeming to loop or "sink" into nothing.  Occasionally multicolored glitter will dance around this area.
Open the portal is a tear, a bit like an eye in shape, with the multicolored glitter as well as occasional sparks around the edges.  Through it one can see the other side clearly, though if there are differences in lighting conditions the portal greatly enhances them.

Quote from: Crippled CrowThere would probably have to be some sort of membrane or the  like or otherwise planets with different atmospheres would exchange air.

Since I don't plan on using much in the way of non-Earth-like planets this isn't a problem.  Maybe if the other side was water or something, but you can always find a way to deal with that.  Plus when portals are closed matter doesn't go through them.

Quote from: Crippled CrowAre there portals that interconnect countries on the same world instead of just portals between different worlds?
Do dead-end portals exist? portals that lead into a star, deep underwater, high up in the air, or the vacuum of space?
Do they have the technology to shut down dangerous portals?
How long does a portal last?
Since the portals are natural, it seems logical that not all of them go somewhere useful. I already have a picture of groups of protective suit-wearing portal explorers sticking a long pressure-and-heat probe into an un-identified portal.  Of course, they might decide to leave useless gates open anyway. Portals to space might lead to the easy deployment of astronomical satellites, portals into the air enable unassisted lift-off (sort of), portals deep underwater can be used for exploration in submarines and the like, and portals into the depth of a sun can be used to reenact the plot of Sunshine without all the hassle.
I think i remember you writing in what i reckon was the parent thread for this one that portals only appear near sources of gravity. Is this still in effect, or is it something you have reconsidered?

EDIT: if the portals appear at random it might be necessary as there is vastly more empty space than there is matter. I reckon that was your reason for that limitation. But so as not to limit yourself you could just make it more likely that they appear near matter.

In order: 1) Portals can only go from gravity source to gravity source.  There are two reasons for this: the first is just that having them work on planet as well as between planets feels more complex than I want; the other is that it's actually related to their scientific explanation.  I see these portals like wormholes: born from gravity warping space (and dimensions in this case).  They are an extension of a gravity source's own depressive effect on space, pushing a hole down through the fabric.  So they can only go the direction of whatever is on the other side of the fabric, which is another gravity source meeting it half-way.  They can't curve back around the planet to stay on-world.
2) Only if the dead-end leads to a significant gravity source.  Mostly this wouldn't be brought up in-story because those portals don't contribute to the travel aspect of the setting.  They'd still be useful, though.  There's even no reason, what with magic and high technology, that a portal underwater or in the air would impede anything.
3) Since portals generally don't work on their own all you have to do to shut them down is remove whatever power is keeping them open.
4) If portals have a lifespan it's way too long for any average mortal to notice.
5) It's a good limitation for story and scientific reasons.

Well, all my dead-end examples could technically be in the vicinity of a source of gravity. The space one could put you in the vicinity of an asteroid. I just think that using the portals creatively would be a great idea as they are one of the major assets of the game.
By the way, is magic only possible by way of high-tech equipment or is it possible for a human to control it with their minds? It sounds like you're leaning towards the first, with maybe a few races being capable of the second but can't be sure.

Quote from: Crippled CrowWell, all my dead-end examples could technically be in the vicinity of a source of gravity. The space one could put you in the vicinity of an asteroid. I just think that using the portals creatively would be a great idea as they are one of the major assets of the game.

One point of having portals is to eliminate space stuff.  Using them to mine dead planets or get helium from a gas giant are okay, since they're creative, but I want to avoid actually getting off a planet for any reason other than satellites (and with the technology available they probably don't need those, either).

Quote from: Crippled CrowBy the way, is magic only possible by way of high-tech equipment or is it possible for a human to control it with their minds? It sounds like you're leaning towards the first, with maybe a few races being capable of the second but can't be sure.

"Control'¦with'¦minds?" :?: Another lost translation there.  I'll try to answer it both ways I could interpret:
1) "Mind power" isn't scientific (because it proposes that somehow the electric/chemical signals of a certain type of mind somehow change reality without any sort of scientific medium) so it doesn't fit in my proposed magic scheme.  (Nomadic's "synapse firings lead to magic" idea would work fine, that you could direct the magic energy via that process, but it would work for any brain that transmitted that way.)
2) If you're talking about synaptic interface where the machine directly interprets your brain signals, yeah, that tech exists, but its flaw is that with every brain having slightly different signals it would need an "attuning" period or just might never work for more than one person.

My question was just whether you had "mages" or other people who were naturally capable of manipulating the natural force, or whether you had to build machines to do it.
And okay, i just reckoned they were still using satellites.
Oh, and an idea i had was if you had an "artifact" or mythical object in the shape of a map showing how all portals are interconnected. Can imagine it would be the target of a lot of treasure hunters.

Quote from: Crippled CrowMy question was just whether you had "mages" or other people who were naturally capable of manipulating the natural force, or whether you had to build machines to do it.

"Mages" are any of those people/creatures with the ability to manipulate the energy.  So either you can "do magic" or you need a device.
I suppose where I confused you is not making clear that when I refer to mages or magic users or whatnot I'm not giving any titles, these are me just referring to anyone who can use magic somehow.  Let me put it in gamer terms: it's like the difference between wizards and sorcerers in D&D.  You can train to be a wizards even if you aren't born with the ability, or you can just be born with it like a sorcerer.  Well in the multiverse you have to be born with it '" or possibly be altered to have it, you just need to possess it biologically '" so you're not doing anything other than training what you already have.  If you don't have it you can only get anywhere if you can control an outside source that does.

Quote from: Crippled CrowOh, and an idea i had was if you had an "artifact" or mythical object in the shape of a map showing how all portals are interconnected. Can imagine it would be the target of a lot of treasure hunters.

Only if it shows them a useful portal no one knows about.  I suspect by the current age of the setting you can get maps just as good as (if not better than) the ancient ones.

As promised here are some longer summaries of the sample magic practices I mentioned in the first post.
These are not written to describe how these magics actually work, only how people think they work.

Summon: The energy of magic forms in that space which surrounds the multiverse.  Inside the multiverse magic causes things to exist.  Magic energy enters on its own from time to time through holes that distort the fabric of space and create new matter and energy.  Some people can make themselves these entrance points: the Summoners bring raw magic in through their bodies, using the spacial distortion to move objects and converting the raw energy into the form they need.
Behind the magic: This would suggest teleport/telekinesis and matter/energy creation powers, but with some caveats: It's nearly impossible to fold space enough to move anything more than a short distance because the more you fold the more gets bunched up in the fold.  But it's actually possible to use this to change a mass's shape (though only so well, the magic's too chaotic for fine detail), though total mass and what it's made of stays the same.  This can still be used for movement: making continuous small teleports moves an object without exerting physical force on it and gets around gravity, and you can use this same process to make a moving objects seem to speed up by cutting the distance it has to move.  Also you can create spatial pockets for storing things in.  The really important aspect of this side of the magic is that it is able to activate portals.
For matter creation unfortunately Summon is not good at making the bits of matter stay together once summoned.  You're very likely to get a spray of sub-atomic particles, with some randomly sticking together on their own.  They're good blasters, though.

Alter: Things can be transformed into other things; magic is a universal catalyst.  With the catalyst in their body Alter mages can convert energy from harmful to non-harmful and cycle the states of matter as well as transmute its elements and shape.  Most powerful of all Alter mages can give animation to inanimate objects
Behind the magic: So they can turn things to gold with the usual logical results.  I figure people in this setting got used to this a long time ago and probably use something else for backing their currency.  They can also shape things, but this actually requires skill as it's a combination of various effects like softening and re-hardening matter and changing ionic or convalent bonds.  Only insane Alter mages try shapeshifting.
The changing energy results in really cool tricks: convert a bullet's kinetic energy and it bounces off you, convert the energy of fire and walk through it, etc.

Rivalry: The conflict between Summon and Alter is wrapped up in both religion and ethnicity.
In the region of the multiverse they originate in there is a religion centered around a duality: the 'Fire' warmth, light, purity, order, life vs. the 'Ice' cold, darkness, impurity, chaos, death.  For one aspect of this religion the Fire is 'good' (i.e. necessary) for the multiverse and the Ice is 'bad' (i.e. destructive) for the multiverse.  The inside of the multiverse's space is the place of good things, while outside is where the bad things come from.  So Summoners traffic in things that are dangerous, making them anything from pitiable to evil.  The issue isn't helped by the fact that Summoners often identify themselves with the Ice.  This is born from the other side of the religion: this side views both sides as necessary for the survival of the multiverse, neither one bad or good, but often prefer the Ice because it represents a type of freedom from ordinary life.  This side tends to see Alter as part of Fire's 'rigidity'.
The ethnic conflict in fact originated the religious split.  One species (who no longer have a common name) split into two groups eons ago: the Isamon follow the Ice-favoring side and practice Summon, and the Alfir follow the Fire-favoring side and practice Alter.  Like many ethnic conflicts the exact reasons aren't clear: it appears to have something to do with what happened to the combined species in an ancient time when a species of very powerful Summoners ruled their section of the multiverse.

I'm not sure the association with the elements fit the "feel" of your setting. Seems kind of misplaced. Animation could be achieved if you consider whatever you are animating a sort of puppet. The Alter-mage could manipulate by making it lighter or heavier to make it lift and drop limbs. If they can manipulate kinetic energy they could also grant it momentum. With easy access to gold, all electronic wires could be made out of it.
Altering energy has a lot of possibilities.
Does summon include telekinesis? It could at the very least be used to drop heavy objects on enemies. But other than that Summon doesn't seem terribly useful as it sounds rather limited.  

Quote from: Crippled CrowI'm not sure the association with the elements fit the "feel" of your setting. Seems kind of misplaced.

They are associated with elements by a religion, not by actually being associated with those elements in any way.  It's like fire being one of the four classical elements despite the fact that fire is actually a combination effect.

Quote from: Crippled CrowDoes summon include telekinesis? It could at the very least be used to drop heavy objects on enemies. But other than that Summon doesn't seem terribly useful as it sounds rather limited.

*sigh* At the moment Summon and Alter are still their older versions, when they were designed to actually work like that so as to be scientificly-based magic.  At this point I should probably drop any actual workings and re-write them from a purely "magical" perspective.