The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: Ninja D!

Quote from: Vreeg's Bordeauxyou are forgetting what was really used to burn by the desert folk.
Some animal feces, especially those of the camel, bison and cow, is used as fuel when dried out.[7] Animal dung, besides being used as fuel, is occasionally used as a cement to make adobe mudbrick huts[8]
Both of these lines apply to your setting.  Built like a brick shit-house, indeed.

I didn't know what was used. Hadn't come across that in my research yet. Still, burning animal waste seems like a lower-class thing. I could see the fire sand stuff being for those who could afford it. The smell would be much better and it would be easier to transport...just more expensive.

yes, very much lower class, but since that is a large part of the population.  In the past of our world, the wealthy trasnported better fuel, the poor burned what was close at hand. Looking Good, Mr. Ninja.  Gathering a setting flavor, very unique and distinct.

Quote from: VreegIn the past of our world, the wealthy trasnported better fuel, the poor burned what was close at hand.

Looking Good, Mr. Ninja. Gathering a setting flavor, very unique and distinct.
[/quote]Thank you very much. I think my move away from D&D and everything tied to that system will help a lot. Also, thank you for all the input you have given thus far. It has been very helpful, especially at this early stage.

Quote from: LlumDry burning feces doesn't smell all that much.

I almost missed this comment because the thread changed to the next paged. Does it really not smell that bad? That's surprising, I would expect it to.

Alright, now I need a name for my lizard-like people. Here are some ideas I've had:
Zhir
Solir
Sol-Zhir

For the time being, I think I will go with Zhir as the name for the race that of lizardfolk. That name isn't set in stone, though, and input on the subject would be greatly appreciated (though that may be easier once you know more about them.)

And now for a very brief writeup of the deep desert. It doesn't tell you much but I hope it conveys the feel of what it is like far away from civilization in the land of Natu.

Deep Desert
Few are capable of surviving in the deep desert for the long term. Fewer still choose to do some. The deep desert is dangerous not only because of the natural environment but also because of the creatures that can be found there. From giant scorpions to corpses animated by some mad necromancer and set free, one can never be certain of what they will encounter. Most of the 'civilized' inhabitants of the deep desert are of the race known as Zhir. They are lizard like in some respects but seem to have more in common with humans than they do with most reptiles. Most humans that inhabit the deep desert of Natu are found in nomadic tribes made up of or descended from people that were exiled from civilized lands. They tend to be rough and have a "survival of the fittest" mentality in most things, broken only when they have and raise children.

And now for a general outline of the common religious belief.

Religion of Natu
The religious story of Natu, if simplified can be summarized like this:

The world was created long ago by many gods and goddesses. Each of these divine beings created only a very small part of the world. The god that created the great inland desert was named Natu (and so that land bears his name still today.) The other divinities had advised Natu against creating a desert land but he would not listen. After the creation was complete, the gods populated the world with the creatures that would live there and then parted ways, each only focusing on the part of the world that they had created and the things that lived there.

In those early days, the god Natu was very pleased with the men that lived in his land. He loved them and gave them everything that they asked for. Since the land was a desert and food was scarce, the men asked for more animals to hunt. Natu gave them more animals. He made them large so they could feed many. Before long it became obvious that the animals were too large to live on the plants available in the desert. The men asked their god Natu to fix this. To fix the problem, Natu created many smaller animals and made the larger ones eat meat. The large animals then became very dangerous to men and killed many. When this became a serious problem, the men once again asked Natu for his help. It was then that Natu taught man magics to use in defense (though other versions say he taught them necromancy, so that they may raise the bodies of those killed to fight against the threat.)

After all the trouble that had been caused by the animals Natu had created, some men decided that it would be better to learn to grow plants to eat instead. They thought they could use these plants to feed themselves and the smaller animals, thus surviving and keeping their predators at bay. When men started to grow crops, they found it difficult in the dry land. These farming men asked Natu, their loving god, for more water to keep their plants alive. Natu gave the farms water and it was good. It was not long before men began to think that they could possibly grow more plants, in the areas that were still dry and trade them to other lands. To do this, the men asked Natu for more water and more. Natu gave them more water. He gave them so much water that the land was flooded and many died.

Up until this point, the gods and goddesses of other lands had not interfered with each other. Some had become concerned when large, carnivorous creatures began emerging from Natu's desert and spreading to other parts of the world. Still, they had respected the sovereignty of the lord of the desert. When Natu flooded his land, and water began to spill out into the lands outside of his desert, the other divine being could no longer ignore what was going on. They came to Natu and told him that he could no longer rule the land he had created. Natu begged and pleaded with the others to forgive him and allow him to still rule the desert he had created. Because of this, and because no other wanted his land, the others agreed on one condition. The wisest men in the land now called Natu were to be chosen and made lesser gods. They would form a council and this council had to approve Natu's actions before he took them. They would do this so that Natu would no longer be so dangerous to his own people of the people of the other gods. If they failed to do the job they were supposed to do or if Natu continued to act dangerously and without their permission, the desert he had created would be destroyed.

This is how things remain to this day and is believed to be the reason there is no serious divine intervention in the land.
[spoiler=Notes]I wanted to make the god Natu seem more human than gods normally are by depicting him almost as a child who is very pleased with himself and can't see the bad things that come from his good intentions. I also wanted to explain where the idea for the Council of Barons came from. That is that a group of many wise men can make decisions better than an individual or the masses on people (who are, overall, rather selfish, greedy, and stupid.) Last but not least, I wanted to explain why the people would still believe this without the evidence of the divine being thrown in their face all the time like in many fantasy settings.[/spoiler]

Cults - Many cults have formed based upon this religion. Most of them are not as chaotic or sinister as people have come to expect from a group called a "cult". Most of them are openly accepted by the people, if not always encouraged. Also, from time to time, things will be done by individuals or by groups in the name of the cult that they follow and (if the outcome is positive) that cult may even come into favor with the people.

One of the less popular cults (or at least more often frowned upon ones) is a group that believes that Natu is the most powerful of all the divinities and has only been restricted by a council of lesser gods because the other world creating divinities fear his power. They believe that if enough people beg Natu to defy the other gods and the council, or even fight the other gods, things can return to the way they were in the days when Natu gave his people anything and everything that they wanted. Different groups within this cult see what would happen after that differently. While the majority think that men have learned from the mistakes of long ago and not foolishly ask for things, there is a minority that think that people have not learned and welcome that return to chaos. This cult is always actively recruiting but they often try not to do it openly. Also, because they so oppose the divine council that restricts their god, they often have a dislike for the Council of Barons. Many among this cult do not even recognize Natu as a nation (most obviously they will likely not use the official currency. This could easily be tied to the City Baron of Abadan.)

A second cult that has come from this religion is one that believes that the creation of the council that keeps Natu under control was a brilliant idea and should be imitated. Members of this cult are usually very vocal supporters of the Council of Barons and often are a voice for a creation of ruling councils in each city state (or a council of the people that keeps the City Baron in check much the same way that the council of lesser gods keeps the god Natu in check. This idea is especially popular, though rather 'underground' in Abadan and other places where the City Baron is considered corrupt.)

Quote from: Vreeg's BordeauxI love how this is born out of singular idea.  It gives the clarity at a basal level that many settings lack.  And we all love necormancers...

When I came back to this setting from those very old notes, I never actually intended necromancers to be the very core of the setting (though they would be a part of it and could be the focus of many stories.) Since I didn't want people to totally focus on the necromancers of the setting, I have detailed other things first. In doing so, has that clarity been lost?

If this were to somehow be called an ethocentric setting, I would hope that the message that came across was about survival in an environment that can be harsh and alien -- even if it is your home. I would hope that some commentary on human nature would also shine through. However, I don't intend for that to be the focus of the setting either. I'd like it to be enjoyable when taken at face value, not reading deep into it. I haven't buried a message in everything nor do I intend to.

I intend to continue on with this setting regardless but the interest of others in helpful, in the very least as motivation. It seems, though, that as I've backed away from necromancers, there has been less interest in the setting. Or perhaps it is just because the thread has gotten longer and is no longer a simple, quick read. Or maybe it is something else entirely.

Just like with this setting, I'm not sure if I'm trying to get at something particular with this post. I'm just putting my thoughts out there and seeing if anyone else has some of their own to share on the matter.

I've got plans for this evening and will be needing some sleep before then but I think that it is about time for me to come back to this setting. I will re-read most of it and post what I have most recently written, which is material about those I am calling the Arbiters of Law. These people serve to make Natu more united but not take away local power or identity in the process. They were inspired by the scene from Mad Max where Max's partner is upset that their prisoner gets to go free and he is yelling at the people that appear to be lawyers of some kind.

I had planned to post this a long time ago but that never happened. Despite the delay, here is the first part!

Arbiters of Law and Tribunals
Arbiters of Law are one of the more recent additions to the loose government of Natu. They have been around for a while but probably less than a century. Originally, there was one Arbiter of Law appointed by the Council of Barons in each barony and their purpose was mostly to enforce the trade laws that had been created by the Council. They also held trials for those accused of crimes with a scope that went beyond a single city state.

After getting a positive reception in most areas, the Council of Barons decided that one Arbiter of Law would be appointed to each city state. The stated reason for this was to allow the Arbiters to more effectively enforce trade laws and further unify Natu as a nation. With this second generation of Arbiters in place, the Council of Barons began to create more laws beyond those related to fair trade and more major things (such as murder.) These new laws, and those that have been created since, became known as the Council Laws.

As more and more Council Laws were created, there started to be far less approval for the Arbiters of Law from the City Barons and their people. In an act of compromise, the decision was made that two more Arbiters of Law would be appointed in each city state. One would be appointed by the local City Baron, the other by popular vote of the people. This compromise eased most of the concerns that were previously had about the Arbiters. This group of Arbiters of Law is called a Tribunal.

Once the Tribunals were in place, formal laws became more common than they had ever been in Natu. Laws also started to be more regularly and fairly enforced.

Aaaaand the rest!

While appearing or acting in any officialy capacity, Arbiters of Law are required to carry with them, at all times, scrolls with all of the laws they enforce written on them. The creation of these scrolls, in whatever form they may take, is also a part of the training or initiation of an Arbiter. Most often the Arbiters appointed by the Council of Barons have trade laws and Council Laws on their scrolls, Arbiters appointed by the City Baron have the Council Laws and Baron Laws on theirs, and the Arbiter appointed by the people have trade laws and Baron Laws on their scrolls. A tradition among the Arbiters that are trained and appointed by the Council of Barons is to make their scrolls from the skin of certain rare albino snakes that rarely come out of the deep desert.

Council Laws are laws that are created by the Council of Barons and are to be enforced all across Natu. Baron Laws are different from one city state to the next are the laws most likely to change as they are created by each City Baron for the city state that they govern. Trade laws usually come from the Council of Barons, though they may be modified by local City Barons. If a City Baron should choose to modify a Council trade law, the new version of that law must be approved by the Arbiters appointed by the Council and by the people.

Some trials, or law-related decisions are done by only the Arbiter who has direct jurisdiction over whatever the problem is. When more than one Arbiter has jurisdiction over a matter, as often happens, it must be heard by the full Tribunal, with a decision being made by a majority vote. The system is not perfect, nor is it totally free from corruption, but it is the closest the land of Natu has ever come to being truly united as a single nation.

The first part of this update is much more detail-oriented than I have been getting with this setting so far. Maybe that's a sign that I'm moving forward with it, maybe not. In any case, it came into my head and I wrote it down.

Quote from: Thumb RingsOne belief that nearly all religious cults of Natu hold in common is that the one thing that sets humans apart from all other creatures, physically, is the thumb. While a few other creatures have similar digits, non are so developed as the thumb possessed by humans. Because of this, adornment of the thumbs is a common practice.

No other culture that has come into contact with Natu has possessed thumb rings at all. In Natu, many different varieties, from the simple to the extravagant, are commonplace.

Many religious cults in Natu use thumb rings in their ceremonies in one way or another. Even more commonly, priests or similar people of rank will wear particularly ornate thumb rings. Often these rings are handed down over many years, often as a status symbol.

This idea actually came to be while watching an old serial of Doctor Who (The Pyramids of Mars). Early in this serial, a many wears a very large, ornate ring on his finger. In that case it is a control device for a robot but I thought it really stood out and I wanted something like that to be somewhat common in Natu. I wanted something that could set the people apart in appearance in some very small way. Maybe its stupid but I like it.

I suppose it should also be mentioned that painting of the thumbs would be even more common than thumb rings, as it would be something that could be done even by the poor for very little expense. The combination of jewelry and painting would probably be something done by the very wealthy or powerful.

An amusing side effect of this all is that the larger the ring worn on the thumb, the less useful the thumb is likely to be. You can only have so much in the way there before it heavily restricts your movements.

I think that thumbs will work well as something that the humans of Natu would think set them apart. There are likely no apes or monkey-like creatures in this desert, and the only other real race doesn't need to have thumbs. I actually go into more detail about that in another thread, which you can find in the spoiler in my sig.

And now, as hinted at in my last post, the second part of this updated.

Quote from: The CitadelThe structure known as the Citadel is the meeting place of the Council of Barons. It is the size of a small city and serves many other purposes, all ordered by the Council of Barons.

The Citadel predates the Council of Barons and any attempt to organize the land of Natu. It is older than any known historical records and only a few legends even exist about it. It is often thought to be related in some way to the larger structure in the deep desert that has now become known as the Necropolis.

It is at the Citadel that all agents of the Council of Barons, from diplomats to spies to warriors are trained. These agents also often live there even long after their training is completed.

This is just a little bit about the place where loose government of Natu is based. I like the idea of it having the same kind of layered history as the Necropolis and the two places even possibly being related.

I have previously stated that I planned for the Necropolis to be home to some flesh golems that defend the place as well as maintain it. I'm sticking with that and, in addition, I think that those same flesh golems were originally also found in the Citadel but were wiped out.

Though I'm sure it doesn't need to be stated, I would like to mention that this setting has a new thread. Basically, it has turned out to be a more organized version of this thread. Here I mostly brainstorm and post rough versions and ideas (and take any feedback that is offered), over there is more of a 'final draft' sort of thing. Of course, there will likely be no final draft for this setting and I am always open to different ideas, there it is.

From the other thread :

Quote from: GhostmanThe Babba seem intriguing. Would be nice to see some more information on them.

Babba Stones[/b]
Thousands of years ago, large stone tablets with many stories written upon them were found in Natu. There stories were mostly mundane and seemed to be entirely about happenings in Natu. Little was thought of them at the time. According to writing on the tablets, they were to be called Babba Stones. For a long time, their purpose remained a mystery.

Many years after the original Babba Stones were found, it was noticed that some of their stories seemed to tell of events that were taking place at that time. Since the Stones were obviously quite old, this was thought to be only a coincidence. Then, more similarities with current events became evident. Again and again until it was apparent that the stories on the Stones were, in fact, telling of the future.

This revelation was kept mostly secret and is all but forgotten by ordinary people, and even scholars, today. It was at the time that this discovery was made that the Order of Babba was founded. This new order took possession of the Babba Stones and hid them away where no one else could find them. They then disappeared for over one hundred years before returning to the settlements of the land of Natu, mostly in the north eastern region. It was then that the Order of Babba as it is known today established itself.

From time to time, additional Babba Stones are located. It is possible that some Stones even tell when and where more will be located. When non-Babba find these Stones, the Order will do anything to acquire them.

Babba Belief
The Babba believe that everything that happens has happened before and that everything will happen again. They view all of time, history, and the future as part of a story that is told again and again for all of eternity. According to this belief, the Babba Stones are historical records kept by a past Order of Babba in a past telling of this grand story.

Usually, things happen on their own just as they were recorded. Rarely, however, events have the potential to change. According to the Babba, nothing can be allowed to change, regardless of how small a thing it is. For if one single event were to happen differently, everything from that point on may also change and the Babba Stones would become worthless.

In secret, however, the Babba acknowledge that many events can happen differently without greatly impacting anything else. They attempt to use this to their advantage and manipulate less important events as they see fit.

Order of Babba
The Order of Babba is organized into what is called the Great Circle. Each layer of the circle has a different purpose and each ring closer to the center is considered to be of a higher rank that the ones further out.

First Circle - Members of the first circle are the only Babba allowed to know all of what is written upon the Babba Stones. The leaders of the Order are of the First Circle, as are all important decision makers and supervisors. All mentors and instructors within the Order are also members of the First Circle.

Second Circle - The true purpose of the Second Circle is kept secret from all non-Babba, as well as any Babba outside of the Great Circle. Members of the Second Circle act as enforcers for the Babba. They protect the secrets of the Order as well as the members. More importantly, it is their sworn duty to ensure that what is written on the Babba Stones from the past comes true.

Third Circle - The members of the Third Circle are the readers of the Babba Stones from the past. They decipher and translate the parts that are written in different or alternate languages. They interpret the meaning of parts that are not clear on the stones. They also relay their knowledge to members of the First Circle.

Fourth Circle - The members of the Fourth Circle have the important task of recording events as they happen, thus creating new Babba Stones.

Fifth Circle - All initiated Babba that do not belong to another circle are considered to be members of the Fifth Circle. They make up the bulk of the membership of the Order. While the duties of members of the Fifth Circle are considered to be of lesser importance, they are the ones who keep the day to day running smoothly for the Babba.

Babba that are in training or are otherwise uninitiated are said to be 'nearing the circle'. They are not considered to be any part of the Great Circle. Officially, no one has ever left the Order of Babba. In reality, any who have wanted to leave have gone missing or met with an unfortunate accident.


Though no one knows for sure and many doubt it, some suspect that Babba of the past built the structures that have now come to be known as the Citidel and the Necropolis. That idea isn't particularly popular but it still makes many suspicious of the newer building (built in the style of the Citidel, on a much smaller scale) that the Babba built for the Council of Barons in Sha-Rai.

I think that my post above presents the Order of Babba in a fairly unbiased way and with no more 'secret' information that is really needed. I wanted to make them somewhat like the Bene Gesserit from Dune, while remaining their own unique entity. I also wanted to have them believe in something like a wheel of time but not say that it is or is not, in fact, 100% true.

Very intriguing indeed. Love that structure of increasingly secretive circles and the overall Middle-Eastern feel to this group.

Quote from: Ninja D!The Babba believe that everything that happens has happened before and that everything will happen again. They view all of time, history, and the future as part of a story that is told again and again for all of eternity. According to this belief, the Babba Stones are historical records kept by a past Order of Babba in a past telling of this grand story.

That is a good elaboration from the idea of history repeating itself. Makes me wonder, is the "grand story" merely a metaphor, or is it to be taken literally - that there's someone or something that is actively doing the telling?