The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: Ishmayl[...] Thus, saying "this cannot happen because this is how black holes are supposed to work" is exactly the same as, sixty years ago, saying "There are no other planets in our galaxy other than those in our solar system." [...]

First, care to quote any sources for the later part of your statement? Second, care to show any source that the event horizon of a black hole can possibly - in any way - take the shape of a flat circle as it was shown in the movie instead of being a sphere?

Further, the fact that basically any known object would ultimately be completely destroyed (probably even before reaching the black hole's event horizon) is just an logical application of the laws of gravitation you and I can experience every moment of our life. The effect that causes that is known as Spaghettification and can be verified by scientists on earth - it even occurs for every one of us (although at such a small scale it's irrelevant). That's not speculation or theory, that's hard cold logical fact.

Quote from: Ishmayl[...] You said (and I quote):

Quote from: Ishmayl[...] I'm done with this.

Yeah, me too. :-/

Quote from: XXsiriusXXI hate to nitpick here, but your logic on the construction of DS9 is faulty. DS9 is the UFP designation for Terok Nor, a Cardassian built spacestaion. Terok Nor isn't a singlur station, but one of what seems to be a class of staions as shown by Empok Nor, a sister staiton. Terok Nor has nothing to do with the Federation until the beginning of DS9.

Here is the Memory Alpha page for DS9  DS9

Problem is: the "new" Enterprise has been built based upon reverse engineered data from the Kelvin's scans of the Narada. This is the supposed reason why the "new" Enterprise is tremendously more advanced than the TOS Enterprise. Additionally, caused by Nero's mayhem, the UFP will likely take up a much more direct and interventionalist stance regarding military assault of defenseless worlds. This will likely lead to military intervention when Cardassia occupies Bajor, which in turn will lead to a defeated Cardassia because of the UFP's more advanced ships.

According to the 2nd law of thermodynamics the entropy in a isolated system can only increase. There simply is no way that "only" the UFP and the officers of the Enterprise changed while the rest of the universe stays the same. Such an outlook is hopelessly naive. The changes brought around by the new movie will have unforeseen sideeffects and consequences which invalidate everything we know about the Star Trek universe.

Perhaps the Romulans and the UFP become allies and eradicate the Klingons. Perhaps the Bajoran Wormhole is discovered centuries earlier and the Dominion is destroyed before it becomes as powerful as it did in the DS9 show. We don't know - we only know that it's mathematically basically impossible for any event from TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY to occur as we know.

Quote from: Stargate525I'm agreeing with Ish, you seem to be under a heavy bit of 'they changed it now it sucks' philosophy.

Why should I repeat my bashings and criticism of TNG and (especially) VOY when the "discussion" was about STXI? I have criticized and I did bash and flame the irregularities and logical errors in the other ST shows and movies - but that has next to no bearing on the topic.

Can you quote one - and only one - other ST movie in which the same technology changes the way it functions and its application's consequences so drastically during the run time of the movie? I dare you, give me just one example that equals the sudden change from "world devouring superweapon" to "interstellar speed bump" that occured in STXI regarding the black holes.

Quote from: Stargate525[...] your ridiculous velocity you're spouting [...]

Watch the film and pay attention to the scene when they are announcing how far away from the platform they are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gn2oLeC_U

Sorry Ra-Tiel its already been done and he lived. The differences is terminal velocity is based on object density and a shuttle craft is way heavier/denser than a man. Also shuttles usually don't come to a complete stop and then "Drop" into a planet. Most sources put terminal velocity of a skydiver (parachute closed) around 200mph, although Kittenger was reported to hit mach 0.9, this must be max speed at the early part of the jump in the less dense stratosphere. Either way... he survived.

Quote from: Ra-Tiel

Quote from: XXsiriusXXI hate to nitpick here, but your logic on the construction of DS9 is faulty. DS9 is the UFP designation for Terok Nor, a Cardassian built spacestaion. Terok Nor isn't a singlur station, but one of what seems to be a class of staions as shown by Empok Nor, a sister staiton. Terok Nor has nothing to do with the Federation until the beginning of DS9.

Here is the Memory Alpha page for DS9  DS9

Problem is: the "new" Enterprise has been built based upon reverse engineered data from the Kelvin's scans of the Narada. This is the supposed reason why the "new" Enterprise is tremendously more advanced than the TOS Enterprise. Additionally, caused by Nero's mayhem, the UFP will likely take up a much more direct and interventionalist stance regarding military assault of defenseless worlds. This will likely lead to military intervention when Cardassia occupies Bajor, which in turn will lead to a defeated Cardassia because of the UFP's more advanced ships.

According to the 2nd law of thermodynamics the entropy in a isolated system can only increase. There simply is no way that "only" the UFP and the officers of the Enterprise changed while the rest of the universe stays the same. Such an outlook is hopelessly naive. The changes brought around by the new movie will have unforeseen sideeffects and consequences which invalidate everything we know about the Star Trek universe.

Perhaps the Romulans and the UFP become allies and eradicate the Klingons. Perhaps the Bajoran Wormhole is discovered centuries earlier and the Dominion is destroyed before it becomes as powerful as it did in the DS9 show. We don't know - we only know that it's mathematically basically impossible for any event from TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY to occur as we know.

A few things:

1.)The UFP is not an isolated system; the Milky Way Galaxy is not an isolated system. The only truly isolated system is the universe itself.

2.)With the amount of time travel and inter-dimensional travel presented in the Star Trek universe. Who is to say what can or can not happen? Who is to say that a future movie will put everything back?

3.)You are right. It is mathematically impossible for any event from TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY to happen as we know it; it is a TV show after all.

Oh just something to keep in mind, when you have a discussion with people it is best not to insult them. It makes you look like a child, and more often then not makes people take you less seriously.

Anything you have to say is now moot. I am done with this topic.

I have been following the posts on this thread, as i did (innocently enough) start it.
Watching it devolve has been more educational than any of the content.  *sigh*

Much love for all the posters and the thought...

Please remember that the movie doesn't include about 5 guys arguing about the merits of the movie, unless you like bring them yourself.

Also shatner's not in it, if that helps.

Judging by your OP Vreeg, I think a part of us ALL saw this coming. We might as well created a Pirates or Ninjas? thread

I think really this all comes down to this, for some it (the movie) is a Star Trek movie, for some its a Sci-Fi movie with a Kirk and Spock in it. All that matters is if you choose to see it did you feel like you wasted 20 bucks and 2 hours of your life, and judging by what the critics are no one in this thread felt is was a complete waste.

Quote from: LathI think really this all comes down to this, for some it (the movie) is a Star Trek movie, for some its a Sci-Fi movie with a Kirk and Spock in it. All that matters is if you choose to see it did you feel like you wasted 20 bucks and 2 hours of your life, and judging by what the critics are no one in this thread felt is was a complete waste.

Could not have said it any better myself.