The Campaign Builder's Guild

Time for another "SilvercatMoonpaw Asks An Open-Ended Question That Will Doubtless Turn Into A Discussion On Many Things That Do Not Directly Answer The Question But Are Nevertheless Interesting".

This one's simple: What process do you use to decide what races you are going to include in a setting?

I am mainly limited by my ability to craft interesting, yet flavour-wise fitting races. If I can come up with a good race (or simply a good take on a race invented by someone else) then I'll try to work it into the world. It's not easy to make an interesting race though, and even if I get some good ideas doesn't mean they'll mesh well with the setting.

Third party: if it's in the book, I roll with it.  If a friend really wants to play a weird race, I'm not going to deny that.  It's really about a shared story around the table, not something for myself.

Personal work: human only; maybe elves and dwarves if I am in a classic fantasy mood.  I've never written science fiction with non-human races (only AI stuff).

I feel that fantasy races are a shallow way of expressing the differences that we, as humans, see in others.  Maybe I'm not skilled enough a writer, but I can't think of a way that using non-human races is critical to any story.  

Quote from: EladrisI feel that fantasy races are a shallow way of expressing the differences that we, as humans, see in others.  Maybe I'm not skilled enough a writer, but I can't think of a way that using non-human races is critical to any story.

I'm not quite sure what you mean.  If you're talking about using fantasy races as a substitute for ethnic stereotypes then I agree.

But I see the use of fantasy races as having an important purpose so long as it's something you can't get from using a human.  For me it's the chance to think about having different physical abilities from a human: you play a wolf if you want the experience of what a wolf can be.  This is why in my own work I try to go for non-"humans with funny foreheads".

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawBut I see the use of fantasy races as having an important purpose so long as it's something you can't get from using a human.  For me it's the chance to think about having different physical abilities from a human: you play a wolf if you want the experience of what a wolf can be.  This is why in my own work I try to go for non-"humans with funny foreheads".

I see what you mean.  For me, physical differences always seem to melt away in story, once intelligence is assigned.

I tend to stick with humans unless I've got a compelling reason to do otherwise. For many settings, wacky races are a distraction from the mood I'm trying to create. In other cases, they are part of that mood.

Gnomes, if it doesn't have gnomes than it isn't a good setting...

On a more serious note, generally I craft my people based on the feel of the setting. Personally I tend to shy away from conventional fantasy races as I see them as overused. Besides I enjoy coming up with the varied and colorful background that a new culture or species allows you to work with.

Quote from: EladrisFor me, physical differences always seem to melt away in story, once intelligence is assigned.

That's why the physical differences should be greater than the standard "human with pointy ears".  At least one of the race's characteristics should need a lot of mentioning so that the difference is reinforced.

Quote from: NomadicGnomes, if it doesn't have gnomes than it isn't a good setting...

Nomadic, you certainly have the best taste of anyone here at the CBG, and that's saying something.

I swing back and forth with the racial issue.  I have some basic formulas for determining races, though.

Amount
A world should not have more than 8 normal races.  This will be a diverse world.  Anymore than 8 and the player base cannot keep track.

A narrowed world should have roughly 3 races.  Many science fiction worlds are like this.  This allows humans to be a focal piece but to be offset by 2 other, normally very unique races.  Consider, for instance, the zerg and protoss.

I generally dislike having races that cannot be played.  If they aren't player races, they aren't races - they're culturally advanced monsters.  I've always believed that if illithids (mind flayers) and yaun-ti were brought down to player character power levels, they would be much more widespread and liked.  They're fun concepts - why can't we play them?

This is just a start, but I need to relocate.  Bubye for now!

For me it's essentially humans and human-derived races (i.e changed humans of one sort or another).

Unless I'm in the mood for something different, then I usually try and add in things that seem to mesh and fit the visual appeal of the setting.

I try to theme my races.  With the Cadaverous Earth, every race is somehow connected to the concept of death, decay, haematophagy, parasitism, or mutancy - themselves all related themes, that might all be placed under the heading "degeneration."  So undead proliferate (I definitely intend them as playable) in a diverse array of forms, while the humanoid/quasi-humanoid creatures include sentient versions of parasitic creatures like tapeworms, leeches, hagfish, snakes, mantises, and vultures (i.e. cestoids, leechkin, hagmen, naghini, mantids, and jatayi).  With every cerature I'm trying to hammer home the feel of a dying, or more accurately a necrotic, rotting earth.

With Xell, I'm trying to go for creatures that exude whimsy and dark romance; I want that world to have the textures of a lush, decadent nightmare.  So I've got anthropomorphic orchids and creatures like living glass, the more gothic, Victorian ratheads, the mothlings (inspired by a Fuseli painting), various faerie creatures, and I'm planning a whole host of spirit-creatures, which are totally absent in the Cadaveruos Earth (there are no incorporeal creatures in CE; everything is visceral and physical, to emphasize the presence of bodies and organic decay).  I remember that Salacious Angel once described Dystopia as being centered around the idea of "strange beauty, or beautiful strangeness," and that's the feel I want for Xell, as well.

Quote from: JharvissI generally dislike having races that cannot be played.  If they aren't player races, they aren't races - they're culturally advanced monsters.

Hmm, I wonder about this. It seems to me like not everything that you wouldn't necessarily want players getting their hands on would have to be a "monster," culturally advanced or not. They could be too advanced/powerful, which is a common reason to forbid them to players, but they don't necessarily have to be "monstrous."

Of course, maybe a term like "monsters" is out-of-date anyway, because RPGing has (well, at least for us around here) gotten away from the pure dungeon crawl hacking and slashing, and we try to create more realistic worlds-- realistic in the sense of having the depth of a viable world, not necessarily being anything like the real world, mind you. It's no longer the sort of thing where you kill everything you meet, so other races of varying intelligence and disposition can exist.

I really only used the term monster to describe the fact that they're typically villains that you're going to kill.  Perhaps culturally advanced encounter would be more fitting?

I agree, Sparkletwist, that there are some times when this is necessary.  Again the illithids make a great point.  Using them in a setting can add a lot of depth, explain why the underworld is the way it is and how it affects the surface, and can add a lot of mythos.  That would be a race you wouldn't want being played.

I will say, however, that I dislike significantly mentally-advanced races existing or races that are too powerful to be played.  They just seem like they would always be winning against the humans and other PC-level races.  I feel like a lot of the excuses given by world-builders as to why they can coexist are just that: excuses.  I suppose I just haven't had an answer save my craving for internal consistency.

Quote from: JharvissA world should not have more than 8 normal races.  This will be a diverse world.  Anymore than 8 and the player base cannot keep track.

Do you assume that these races exist across the world? In my Savage Age setting, which is roughly as large as Earth, Man is the only global race. All others are small populations limited to specific regions - for example, Elves only live in parts of Brond and Kamara, so a random character from Euria would in all likelyhood be ignorant that such beings as Elves even exist. Because of the state of technology and geographic factors, traveling to the far corners of the world is extremely difficult and dangerous, thus the world is decidedly not "small". It follows from all this that the non-human races are only revelevant in their homelands and adjacent regions. Anywhere else they are just fanciful tales spun by crazy sailors, if even that. Thus I could easily have lots of races in SA, as only a few of them could be present in any given story set in that world. Not that I'm actually able to come up with so many races though x.

Quote from: JharvissI generally dislike having races that cannot be played.  If they aren't player races, they aren't races - they're culturally advanced monsters.  I've always believed that if illithids (mind flayers) and yaun-ti were brought down to player character power levels, they would be much more widespread and liked.  They're fun concepts - why can't we play them?

Even with the underlying assumption that settings are always used for RP, rather than writing stories or simply as experiments in conworlding, I don't see why "powerful" races should be shunned. Couldn't there be a game where all player characters are Illithids (or other similarly powerful beings)? That could make a very interesting game.

Quote from: sparkletwistOf course, maybe a term like "monsters" is out-of-date anyway, because RPGing has (well, at least for us around here) gotten away from the pure dungeon crawl hacking and slashing, and we try to create more realistic worlds-- realistic in the sense of having the depth of a viable world, not necessarily being anything like the real world, mind you. It's no longer the sort of thing where you kill everything you meet, so other races of varying intelligence and disposition can exist.

I actually like using the term monster when refering to intelligent beings. It's loaded with potential for sweet political incorrectness, which can be helpful in invoking the athmosphere of a primitive world full of superstitions and prejudices. Indeed, in Savage Age most Men who know about Elves would probably label them as monsters :-p

It is an interesting question, SCMP.
I am constantly blathering on about rules and such matching the actual game the GM and PLayers want to play.  This is along those lines, however.

First off, some perspective.  Celtricia has changed and morphed quite a bit in it's time as an active setting.  The hsitory of the races was there from the beginning.  I chose to take on many of the trope races due to player input, but specifically fit them to the needs of the historical narrative.
(Mark that term in your memory banks.  "The Needs of the Historical Narrative".)

I am a big believer that the history of the setting must be well thought out before deciding what races exist.  True Creation myths (seperate from the creation myths that the pcs are told, normally) must be thought out in conjuction with the feel of the fluff.

I had run about 5 decent sized campaigns before Celtricia, and my intent was to create a hitorcial narrative where many races would be somewhat familiar, but then to have history itself place a seperate stamp on the races.  Or more appropriately, The races were created each for a specific need and for a specific situation by the Planars, but the underlying goal was to show a time in transition, when Culture was totally superceding the racial stamp.

So my elven caraciture, my Omwo~, were once super long-lived, superior masters of magic.  But the Planars had turned away from their rigidity, and they had been somewhat left behind by many of their original designers.  Humans, too, had been created as the 'answer' to the Omwo~ by a colalition of (independently acting) Planars, more freewilled and less doctrine bound, shorter-lived and thus more able to change.  But they were created with the idea that the Planars would still be on the "waking Dream' to guide them, and the war among the P;anars and subsequent leavetaking of those celestial beings messed up that plans, and the humans never really fulfilled their promise.
The 'Stunatu' (White Omwo~, 'Working Folk'), or the stunted, which includes the Hobytalia, the Klaxik, and the Gnomic folk (Hobbits, Dwarves, and gnomes) were created to be servant races to the Omwo, Sauroid, and humans.

It was about 2 years into running Celtricia that I realized that since I had done the same thing with the Orcsah and other Ogrillites (Orcs, ogres, gnolls, bugbears, etc), they should be included as playable races.  I try not to do anything because it would 'be cool', but I do listen to the players.  We had a new player in the fold, and the group had run into an Ogrillite tribe in the Southern Tiche Plains.  She immediately went into attack mode, and the rest of the players had to slow her down, letting her know that they weren't necessarily baneful, that different tribes acting different ways, and that it was pretty much considered uneducated and immoral to attack a creature due to race.

She (the Player) had one of those great revelations that we GMs live for, when they 'get it'.  The Gartier chief of this destitute, poor tribe was an ultra sarcastic type, named Bozecloun.  He was proud but desperate, and the PC saw that while it should have been a tough fight, this particular tribe was in no shape to fight.  Starving, bony orcash children bravely carrying items, since this group had no mounts left, etc.  
The PC, a priestess of Amerer the Balance, ended up adopting the tribe. Total change-over in attitude.  I forget the original name of the tribe, because they actually changed their name to, "The Faunem', which was based on her surname.  She healed a lot of them, negotiated a work contract with them and a merchant guild in Ogbar, and integrated them into a partnership with the Trabler government. [note=Wrath of a PC]  As a GM, I could NOT resist being logical and having the BonePures, a orcash racial superiority movement within the Zyjmanese ogrillites, get wind of this success and start attacking the small but solvent Faunem Tribe.  Talk about scorched earth.  You'd swear I'd slugged the PC's baby.  Everything took a backseat to her getting to where the tribe was, and protecting it, and then punishing every BonePure Orcash she every met.[/note]
More, for the next PC she made for another group within the campaign (How did I get anything done in college?), she wanted to run a gartier of the Faunem tribe.  Now, I won't get into the specifics, but suffice it to say, at the end of a few days of thinking, I wrote up the rules for playing the Ogrillite races.

So, how do you decide what sort of races to use, to bring this back around?  A lot of this is based on how much work you want to put into it.  Races can be an excuse to do less work with seperate cultures.  Nothing is easier than having xenophobic racially based enclaves/states, where race is an excuse for culture.    
Sometimes a GM might want to skip the fantastic, and make human cultures diverse.  But that is also a choice to make in a 'fantasy' role playing game.  
I found that creating intersting racial histories and backgrounds, micro and macro, was more important for player enjoyment that asking players ahead of time what they want.  But thats me.