The Campaign Builder's Guild

I've decided to split any discussion in the original thread off into this thread in order to keep the canon separate from the talk and ideas.

Mare Eternus Official Thread
Mare Eternus Wiki

First, I would just like to say that I find this a rather interesting setting and something I have really never seen before.

Here are a few preliminary questions I have about the setting.

Humans: How are they portrayed in the setting? Are they the standard RPG fair or do they have unique abilities? Are they a dominate force in the setting or a small minority?

Is there sunlight? If so, how is it produced/where does it come? How does it factor into a day and night cycle?

How does one navigate from one worldlet/microworld to another? Is it a simple matter of following a set pattern or map? If so, how do they account for the drift? Are there navigational markers of some kind or a type of advance nav system?

Is there some type of magic or psionics? If it is a tech setting is there some type of unique ability that can be done with it?

How fragile are the air pockets around the Worldlets? I understand how a grayweed colony could destroy one, but would a sub ramming into one destroy it? How about a massive explosion from within?

What happens to a cauldron-cranker after the engine is removed? Does it become completely inert?  Does something happen to it? Can a cauldron-cranker be completely striped of parts and recycled?

Can a person fashion a gear/cog and use it to replace one that is already present on a clockwork device?

Quote from: XXsiriusXX
Humans: How are they portrayed in the setting? Are they the standard RPG fair or do they have unique abilities? Are they a dominate force in the setting or a small minority?

There are no humans in The Expanse. If you wanted to play one the closest you would get would be playing a Maeri (and even they have noticeable differences from standard human stock).

Quote from: XXsiriusXX
Is there sunlight? If so, how is it produced/where does it come? How does it factor into a day and night cycle?

There isn't sunlight as there's no such thing as a sun or star in ME. The ocean does have a glow though, on average about what you'd expect if you were 10-20 feet underwater on a sunny day. The glow is brightest from directly above and dimmest directly below. There doesn't seem to be any actual source for it though as no matter how far you travel the glow is always coming from directly above you at the same brightness. Actual brightness does depend on the conditions of the water around you though. Murkier areas of the ocean are dimmer and very crystal clear areas are much brighter.

Regarding day/night I haven't fully decided on this. To be honest I've had a bit of trouble deciding on how to handle sleep. Should I simulate a day/night cycle in some way? How do I do so without it coming across as contrived? Do I not have day/night? If so how do I handle sleep?

Quote from: XXsiriusXX
How does one navigate from one worldlet/microworld to another? Is it a simple matter of following a set pattern or map? If so, how do they account for the drift? Are there navigational markers of some kind or a type of advance nav system?

The Expanse is pretty stable and worlds tend to stay pretty much where you'd expect them (over long time spans though they can drift all over the place). Smaller worlds will drift more obviously. There are navigational beacons and other methods of pinpointing worlds though I haven't yet fully decided on how I'm going to do that.

Quote from: XXsiriusXX
Is there some type of magic or psionics? If it is a tech setting is there some type of unique ability that can be done with it?

The magic is in the clockwork. I'd label it a sort of magitech setting in that the special effects are in magic that is produced through a pseudo-technological process. It's also subtle. You might have a cog that turns forever with no input and that has infinite torque or perhaps a piston that emits water out its exhaust tube without any water being put in. The sort of things that obviously break physics, but only when you sit down with them and examine them for a moment. The flashy stuff comes from combining these subtle parts together into creating incredible machines (which is what the inhabitants of ME do all the time). This is where alot of the wonder from the setting comes from.

Quote from: XXsiriusXX
How fragile are the air pockets around the Worldlets? I understand how a grayweed colony could destroy one, but would a sub ramming into one destroy it? How about a massive explosion from within?

Ah well worlds don't have air pockets around them. The air is internal. The worlds aren't analogous to our world in that it is a solid sphere with an atmosphere around it. They are shaped more like asteroids and the air is inside them inside caverns and caves that crisscross their interiors. Where these caves come near to the surface of the world you will often find unbreakable domes, some many miles across and all looking out into the ocean. These would probably be equivalent to the sky on earth in that they look out into the great expanse (space/the sea).

Quote from: XXsiriusXX
What happens to a cauldron-cranker after the engine is removed? Does it become completely inert?  Does something happen to it? Can a cauldron-cranker be completely striped of parts and recycled?

It'd just float around in the water as a derelict just the same as if you removed the engine from any other submarine. And yes it can be stripped down. All a CC is, is a prop driven submarine that has a Cauldron Stack (a certain type of clockwork mechanism that is quite common) in place of a standard boiler.

Quote from: XXsiriusXX
Can a person fashion a gear/cog and use it to replace one that is already present on a clockwork device?

Sure, though I'm not sure why someone would do this. Generally people who pull bits of clockwork off of things do it to loot the clockwork (it's very valuable) and don't really care about the continued operation of the machine. Since "breaking" clockwork devices doesn't seem to do anything other than separate the components few people show much concern over attempting repairs.

Glad to see you're posting this, I remember when you first were thinking about it. I'm reading right now, but I might not get to actually posting about it till tomorrow. It is getting late after all.

Edit: I'm adding my thoughts here as I read through this. I can't sleep, so I've got the time.

*A liquid universe poses a problem of gravity and pressure. If gravity is focused on the drifting worlds themselves, then you could get away with having a relatively even pressure all across (patches of low pressure would be fine as phantom gravity anomalies). Granted, this is only if you want physics to matter.

*A fun technological/magical item that comes to mind would be a device used to track worldlets. Of course, you would have to have been to one before to attune to it, but then you could follow your proximity to a given worldlet. I'm imagining this in video game mode, sort of like some of the endless sailing you do in "The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker" when you're looking for new islands.

*I'm loving the feel I'm getting as I read this. I foresee games set in this world will be focused around exploration, both of lost worldlets and seeking out known ones. A common trope would work well for this setting: The adventurers work for a map making guild. That would be cool.

*You mention brass a lot. I made maille out of brass, and it turned the clothes I wore under it blue; it oxidizes easily. So when you say brass, do you mean bright, shiny, fiery brass, or dull oxidized brass? You can have whichever you want, I just want clarification. LOL.

Heading to bed now, I'll post more questions in another thread later.

Quote from: NomadicThe Crystalline Prisms
At first they seem like nothing more than adornments for the mechanisms. Indeed the mechanisms are covered in other decorations. Pearls, gemstones, inlaid silver and gold, even strange paintings and markings from time to time. But nothing, none of those pieces seems quite as alive as the prisms. Some are as small as a grain of sand, others larger than mountains, but all of them thrum and vibrate, and all of them glow with an eerie inner light. Of all the clockwork these are the most surreal and the least understood. And it is for that reason that most people attribute the "intelligence" of the clockwork to them. They are the only part of it that no technology has come from. Research of the crystals has turned up nothing except that they glow, are indestructible, and that their haunting pulsations can warp a persons mind.

[ic=The Prism Collective]
Technologically the crystals have had very little use. Outside of lighting and cutting or scratching hard surfaces they have little actual use to "mortal" hands. Religiously though they have had a greater impact than the rest of the clockwork combined. The Prism Collective is the largest example of this. A loose belief that the crystals are a link to god and through them he speaks his divine will. Listeners, those accepted into the faith will spend so much time every day in close contact with a prism, listening to the thrum and waiting for some inspiration to strike. While it is debatable as to whether the inspiration is divine, or just the results of a slowly scrambling mind, the inspiration does happen and practitioners have been the hands behind some of the most complex and amazing creations in history.

Are there any other types of permanent effects that are caused by the Prisms?  What happens when a prism is removed?                        

Quote from: XXsiriusXX
Are there any other types of permanent effects that are caused by the Prisms?  What happens when a prism is removed?                        

Nobody knows. All that is known is that they put out alot of diffuse light and extended physical contact with them will drive you nutty. As to the last bit, they are just like the rest of the clockwork in that they can be removed or placed back where they were. However as they are seen as more sinister or holy by many people they tend to be left alone.

Actually that is the reason that there still is clockwork to be found. It has some amazing properties but many people are untrusting of it and of those that aren't, most revere it as sacred and wouldn't dare touch it (with the exception of the few religions that use bits of clockwork as relics and focuses). That leaves only those reckless enough to mess with it or those that don't believe it is harmful/sacrilegious to touch it.

Making an ocean world has its own special challenges.  I believe this to be true because the ocean has no default geography - the bottom does, but an eternal ocean has no bottom, just water.  Water is essentially featureless.  In this way it's perhaps closest to a space setting: the "places of interest" are discrete points in a void (to use the space analogy, planets, stars, asteroids, and so on).  While there might be something in the interstellar medium (comets, a derelict ship), the "terrain" really plays no role as such.  It exists only insofar as it requires time to cross it.  I can see an ocean world falling prey to this "featurelessness" in which the ocean is no more than a medium between planets (or worldlets, in your case).  On the other hand, the opposite situation would be a cluttered ocean, with points of interest in such close proximity that the ocean ceases to be meaningful at all save as a negligible buffer between far more interesting places.

I think the most inspired thing in this setting is also one of the most basic - currents.  We're provided here with something that goes (almost) everywhere without making things too cluttered, because physically a current is just more water (water with purpose, though).  The currents, I presume, can bring almost anything anywhere, and the gaps between them are especially intriguing and mysterious.

The forests of kelp are equally helpful because they provide terrain to the terrain-less ocean.  Someplace to hide, a change in scenery, a habitat - it sounds like small stuff but it's really huge when characters are exploring.  All that said, I still imagine it will be a challenge to find a balance between an empty sea and a cluttered one - and an even greater challenge to map this setting.  I mean, aside from the fact that all maps are pointless because nearly everything moves, how do you map in 3D anyway?

So, moving on from that general stuff, a few things I'd like to see/hear about:

I didn't see any mention of gravity.  Since there is presumably no up or down where there is no surface or sea floor, which way do people "fall," if any?  Do they float towards the nearest worldlet/other mass?  Is "down" just some universal arbitrary direction?  Do they choose which direction is down?  Or maybe "down" exists in the worlds but not outside them.

You mention that the outflow of pipes has a negligible effect on the already erratic movement of worlds.  Is there any known way to "steer" a world, even if only slightly?  It seems like this would be a pretty big priority of a world's inhabitants, as they'd want to avoid getting sucked into some doldrum if at all possible.

Something that strikes me about the currents is the political implications carried by the fact that everything moves constantly.  There can't really be any multi-world states, nor can people conquer or establish colonies in the traditional sense - your new conquest inevitably becomes independent.  There must be a lot of apprehension as to where your society is heading next, to the point where I'd expect people to send out patrols to figure out what lies down the current (though if the pace is really slow it may not matter).  It seems like the transient nature of conquest and settlement would make the residents of worlds less aggressive; there's simply less to be gained.

In chat, we talked about leaving mystery for players/GMs, something we're apparently both big fans of.  To me, however, races are so crucial for the character of a setting that I'm not comfortable with leaving that as a big question mark.  Sure, a new people could pop up from some distant world or current, but I really feel that some common/widespread races should be discussed and defined.  Your very loose descriptions of the kind of creatures here - based on what they breathe - leaves a whole lot of room for interpretation.  That can be good, but it can also be daunting for people who don't regularly create races and societies out of thin air and post them on message boards ( :-p ).

All in all it's a good read and I'm interested to see more.  I suggested transportation to you and we should have a new topic on Sunday, so there shouldn't be any problem there...

Quote from: Nomadic
Submersibles
Manual Powered (propeller)
Other Names: Manuals, Handevrhan Ships, Barnyards - The oldest known submersible vessels were tiny hand cranked contraptions large enough for a single person. Since then the development of new technologies has pushed these manual ships to the bottom of the heap. However their unmatched reliability has prevented them from totally disappearing. Modern Handevrhan Ships (a corruption of the term "hand over hand" which is a reference to how the crank systems on many of them work) tend to be slow but very large vessels. Most often seen in the roles of freight and fishing vessels they still serve their purpose as heavy duty haulers. However, most modern manuals are propelled not by hand, but by animal power. Generally this is in the form of slower but greatly enduring beasts of burden (this leading to the nickname "barnyards").

Their propulsion in principle is quite simple, muscle power is used to turn cranks or spin gears which translate that power to torque on one or more long shafts. These shafts, extending out the back of the vessel, are capped with propellers and the provided torque spins them providing thrust. Turning is generally performed through a series of rudders and smaller individual crank propellers which allows these ships to turn a surprisingly tight circle. Communication on such a vessel is key and leaders (nicknamed loudmouths) are often put in charge of crank teams so that they can relay the captains orders quickly to the teams.

Interesting. When I read this I instantly thought of Final Fantasy X's chocobo powered ships.  I am assuming that the number of animals is depended upon the size of the ship. What types of unique animals are used?  On the barnyard ships are there backup systems in case the animals are killed?

I'm really interested in reading about the subs offensive and defensive systems.

Quote from: XXsiriusXXInteresting. When I read this I instantly thought of Final Fantasy X's chocobo powered ships.  I am assuming that the number of animals is depended upon the size of the ship. What types of unique animals are used?  On the barnyard ships are there backup systems in case the animals are killed?

I'm really interested in reading about the subs offensive and defensive systems.

Any type of animal that could handle the strain could be used. I haven't yet detailed the area itself just the overall setting so I can't answer questions like war history or particular local animals. As to the backup... that would be the muscles of the ships crew.

There is now a badge for Mare Eternus. Please feel to take one Vreeg and Sirius.

Those pictures you posted sure do give that 'speck in a huge ocean' feel that ME seems to be shooting for.  Especially with the dim lighting.  
How does gravity work, or is this somehting that is mysterious right now?

Quote from: LordVreegThose pictures you posted sure do give that 'speck in a huge ocean' feel that ME seems to be shooting for.  Especially with the dim lighting. 
How does gravity work, or is this somehting that is mysterious right now?

Gravity has a set down for the entire universe. The physics in Mare Eternus are a bit funky like that and I think in some ways things like this give it a strong sense of high fantasy with the very matter of the universe having arcane leanings to it.

Ever play Submarine Titans?

Quote from: Light Dragon
Ever play Submarine Titans?

Nope, though a google search shows some interesting images (I do love a good RTS). Perhaps I'll check it out one day.

to be honest, I haven't really read too much into Mare Eternum, so I'm sure some of my questions may have already been answered. As of now, like I said, I don't know too much, so my questions may be limited until I read up a bit.

How do ships (if thats what they are called) fight when they are in the sea between the worlds? somekind of magitech cannon? boarding parties? crystal lasers?