The Campaign Builder's Guild

Week 11 (October 16th, 2009)
[note=Got and FFP Idea?]Send me a PM. Remember, we are discussing any topic relating to world design (but not system design), so fire away.[/note]
[ic=Philosophy Archive]
Week 1 - The Cost of Magic
Week 2 - Villains
Week 3 - Genre Conventions
Week 4 - Design Method
Week 5 - Characters
Week 6 - Theme
Week 7 - PCs in the World
Week 8 -  Politics
Week 9 - Government
Week 10 - Alignment
Week 11 - Magic Items
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Magic Items
Like 'em? Hate 'em? Do you like settings abounding in magic and magic items, or should a single magic item be a rare wonder? What makes a good one?

Any pet peeves about magic items?

I like tools, the more the better.  Magic items are tools, but what's most important about them is that they can replicate the qualities of modern or futuristic tools without having to leave the "swords and magic" realm of fantasy.

That said what I really like is using "science indistinguishable from magic" in an era when they can't fully explain it yet, whether fantasy or modern/near-future.

I like magic items. As long as they are not the random +1 longsword kind. They should have a history-a reason for existing. (Unless you just need to give your PCs a little help in that next dungeon corridor.) Giving a magic item a history and story really helps the world your PCs are in seem more uh..real.
 I remember playing a game where the DM just handed out random magic items each session - because we were only playing about once a month and did'nt really have time for the full game experience. It was cool, but I just did'nt have the same affection for my magic items. They should be like that one gift you get to open on Christmas Eve.

ME has loads of these things. They fall under the categories of clockwork and artifacts. Clockwork being made by some unknown force/entity and artifacts being mortal mimicking of the clockwork. Like Sarisa said though there are no artifacts of +3 ogre disembowelment. All artifacts have a history and a purpose that can be shown without using crunch. Their operation is generally described by a short paragraph as opposed to "this is a +3 spoon of icecream scooping".

Mmmm. Ogre disembowlment. I mean Mmmm. Ice Cream.

 Just want to say thanks to Pheonix for keeping these philosophy threads going. Good work guy.

I greatly agree with nomadic and sarisa. I like magic items but i strongly feel they should have backstory of some kind. Like if i really need to give a player a sword or something to replace his because a rustmonster got to it, im not gonna just hand them a mundane +x sword of whatever. Ill give them a sword and maybe probe them a little to see if they have ideas of the swords origin without me having to think anything up, some of my players come up with awesome ideas to.

Wait i might be ramblind now..

I think magic items should all be somewhat rare but easy enough to find if the players need to. And when in doubt let your players think up a back story for an item, it adds alot to the players feeling like they are part of the world.

Ok i think i got my point out.

I think the magic item backstories are okay, but only if you're going to have few magic items per person (i.e. 1, maybe 2).  If you're playing a Christmas tree system like D&D it's just going to end up feeling silly, and even more than two items per person is really stretching it as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I would agree there but I feel that if you make magic items that abundant magic looses that bit of wonder that makes it magical in the first place.

My problem with +1 swords isn't so much whether it is a generic item common in the world or a unique item with backstory; it's the lack of any concrete effect. The +1 sword is just arbitrarily better. It's not specifically sharper, deadlier or blood-seeking. It's just better. Magic items shouldn't just be an excuse to "upgrade" your character. They should be tools with specific effects or unique pieces of arcane art.

I do not see magical items as tools; such a point of view would make them seem far too mundane and ordinary. I see them more as plot devices for stories and as parts of the setting's lore.

Quote from: GhostmanI do not see magical items as tools; such a point of view would make them seem far too mundane and ordinary. I see them more as plot devices for stories and as parts of the setting's lore.

While those do make for interesting accents I feel that nothing should ever be more important than the characters.  Since I like complex tools, for what creative options they can give, in a fantasy setting this means I need magic or near-magic items.  Combine that with making none more important than the character and you have "1 or 2 for backstory, rest are mundane".

It all comes down to how common magic is in your setting. If you have a setting that everyone has magic, chances are lots of people will have common magic items (unless magic items are strictly forbidden). The "special" magic items would be reserved for those really powerful/unique/ancient artifacts.

However if magic items are extremely rare, then your generic +1 longsword will have its own history and be priceless.

Personally I like magic items to be things that have a specific effect or function and then you can use them in whatever way you want. Magic items that aren't just generic weapons that are slightly better.

As for the whole +1 category, I think they use this for simplicity sake, you could in your game have a +1 sword be the equivalent of Crystal Edged, Blood-seeking, Acid-dripping, Steam-scalding or whatever. It's largely arbritrary, your left to add your own suffix/prefix or "enchantment type". Just another aspect of worldbuilding.

Weapons and Armor that increase the player's to-hit/defense are not truly magic items in my eyes. Those are merely necessary tools to help make players better with out resorting to increasing their base stats. The +1 effect can easily be explained with superior craftsmanship, and if necessary, the use of exotic metals and materials.

True Magic items (such as Flaming Swords, floating shields, bags of holding, etc.) are as common as the setting allows them to be.

Personally, I don't enjoy the Christmas tree effect common in 3.5 nor do I truly enjoy the 'no magic items' style games... So in reality I like a nice middle ground. A few utilitarian magic items and maybe a 1 really flavorful one sounds about right.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfWeapons and Armor that increase the player's to-hit/defense are not truly magic items in my eyes. Those are merely necessary tools to help make players better with out resorting to increasing their base stats. The +1 effect can easily be explained with superior craftsmanship, and if necessary, the use of exotic metals and materials.

True Magic items (such as Flaming Swords, floating shields, bags of holding, etc.) are as common as the setting allows them to be.

Personally, I don't enjoy the Christmas tree effect common in 3.5 nor do I truly enjoy the 'no magic items' style games... So in reality I like a nice middle ground. A few utilitarian magic items and maybe a 1 really flavorful one sounds about right.

If I ever get to play testing ME then you should join in. That's about the level it has. An adventurer will probably end up with a couple low end utilitarian items and one or two stronger but more focused items.

I think even powerful and unique magic items should be treated like tools with specific uses and capabilities (not necessarily mundane tools; just tools). The only other choice is the DnD way: treat them as an enhancement. In that case they cease to be something your character employs, and become a mere upgrade as i said before.