The Campaign Builder's Guild

More meat-and-potatoes for sorcerors. Probably still quite a few adjustments forthcoming, but I am liking this as a starting point. Since way before I started moving over to FATE, sorcery has been the anti-mage school, and the one where advance planning has been most strongly emphasized. That's a little clunky in this system, but I am pretty pleased with it so far.

Comments, now:

on hen-gan:

Quote from: EHI really love the way hen-gan is set up, very balanced and very useful. Seriously, good work here. I love the whole idea of cloaking yourself in emotion to manipulate people. I don't have any other comments on this really.

I think you could actually make Thought Whip require Thought Grasp, have an increasing defense bonus against it, have repeated use create mental stress, and remove the once per scene limitation against non-mages. To be entirely honest, it feels a little arbitrary, even if you provided a fluff reason for it.[/quote]The Sorcerer tricks are coming along nicely. If you keep most of those tricks, the Sorcerers are going to be very versatile, even if they won't have the depth the other paths have.... It's easy to see why sorcerers are one of the dominant forces on the continent, though. With abilities like the ones provided...[/quote]They're dominant in part because they're connected to a very popular religion, carried forward by a once-great empire (which exerted its cultural influence in a lot of ways, really.) Also, sorcerors treat their magic more like a science and less like a sacred mystery or trade secret, compared to the other traditions. It's the most widespread of the magical disciplines because sorcerors aren't as shy about teaching it to people.

As for their millieu, it is heavy into anti-magic countermeasures and research/information-gathering, but I think that clever players will be able to get a huge amount of mileage. I am curious to see how creative people will get with Imbued Tools (going beyond the standard knife/stylus/lens toolkit most sorcerors carry), and with the clever application of Runes and Sigils.

Once again, thanks for reading along, and for the invaluable feedback.

Working on mystics.

It's tough to do healers in a system that, in many ways, downplays the importance of healers. I foresee myself having to go back and change mystics' powers eventually, after tweaking some variables re: combat, injury, death.

Of course "mystics are healers" is a pretty gross oversimplification, so maybe I just need to work more on playing up the other parts of their nature, the things that make them more interesting that regular ol' magic bandaids. So, tell me what you think.

Why do healers have to be magicians? Why not emphasize mundane healing instead? :P

Quote from: NomadicWhy do healers have to be magicians? Why not emphasize mundane healing instead? :P

Unless you happen to live in one of the low-population, nomadic tribes of boru, out in the wilderness, far from civilization, you are much more likely to be cut open and stitched back up by a surgeon than to ever meet any patient of a mystic.

Maybe I'm using this thread to discuss magical healthcare because it's a thread about magic design! That would be pretty crazy though I guess

oooooh burn. *sizzle*

Quote from: Luminous Crayon

Quote from: NomadicWhy do healers have to be magicians? Why not emphasize mundane healing instead? :P

Unless you happen to live in one of the low-population, nomadic tribes of boru, out in the wilderness, far from civilization, you are much more likely to be cut open and stitched back up by a surgeon than to ever meet any patient of a mystic.

Maybe I'm using this thread to discuss magical healthcare because it's a thread about magic design! That would be pretty crazy though I guess

Almost as crazy as thinking you're a glowing crayon.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonWorking on mystics.

It's tough to do healers in a system that, in many ways, downplays the importance of healers. I foresee myself having to go back and change mystics' powers eventually, after tweaking some variables re: combat, injury, death.

Of course "mystics are healers" is a pretty gross oversimplification, so maybe I just need to work more on playing up the other parts of their nature, the things that make them more interesting that regular ol' magic bandaids. So, tell me what you think.

Other things need healing.
healing the mind, the emotions, crushed spirits, rejuvanating conduits,
a resistance to death and injury and the affectrs of the other traditions...

All right; stunts for Kudan Mystics are finished and I think I am pretty pleased with them!

Irasi Sages will be the next magic-related topic to get my attention. As the last of the big five traditions, Irasi will push me up to "mostly done" status when it's completed: the only thing left after that are the Aberrant and the Dead traditions, which are so rare and random that it's probably safe (at least in the near term) to tell players and other Narrators to just make things up.

I would love to get some feedback on mysticism and sorcery, if any of you are up for it. I feel like they could really benefit from a little careful scrutiny at this point.

Thanks for reading; more stuff soon!

So, brainstorming about Irasi and the Sages who practice it.

Conceptually, this is Kudan Mysticism turned inside-out: instead of externally-directed harmony (oneness with the world, with nature, with other life), it is internally-directed harmony (the oneness of the self). Irasi unabashedly cribs elements from wuxia films, Jedi knights, and a bevy of related sources; they share a kinship with many fictional traditions of puissant, mysterious warriors fueled by a deep well of supernatural power.

It should be noted that there's some dispute about whether Irasi counts as "magic" or not. Powerful Sages can do obviously, overtly supernatural things, but most Irasi techniques are much more subtle and internal. Most Sages themselves do not consider Irasi to be magic: instead, it's just about being at the peak of your personal ability, unlocking your full potential through discipline and balance. By this view, a Sage is no more magical than, say, a champion duelist, who is mentally and physically acute, and who fully understands the use and capabilities of his weapon.

One serious thing I'm worried about is that with Irasi I might be breaking one of my own cardinal rules re: magic design in my setting. That is, magic should not supplant mundane skills and prowess. In plain language, a mage shouldn't be a better warrior than a non-magical warrior, a better negotiator than a non-magical negotiator, and so on-- magic shouldn't be a universal key that opens every lock.

Frankly, I'm not sure how to faithfully represent Irasi with game mechanics in a way that leaves room for viable, non-magical experts in the same abilities, or whether Irasi, even without game mechanics, is a concept even capable of playing by my own rules.

I think you can still have balance, provided you bend the rules a little, and look at it more like, "someone who uses magic will not be automatically better in all cases than someone who doesn't use magic." A warrior who is well-versed in Irasi is probably going to be a better fighter than one who is only versed in mundane techniques. This is just the nature of it, and to try to subvert this too much makes Irasi seem pointless. However, this harmony more than likely has its price. Perhaps Irasi followers can only gain their power after a lengthy meditation. Perhaps they must follow strict rules in their daily life. Perhaps the spiritual harmony is fleeting, and offset with occasional bouts of profound discord and spiritual chaos. My point is, if there's a price to pay outside of the battle, that a mundane warrior wouldn't have to pay, I think you can still hold true to the spirit of your rule, and let Irasi continue to exist in its current form.

I really love some of your abilities; very clever many of them.
I still have a problem with the Sorcerers though. I really love the concept, but I can't seem to figure out their place in the world. They have abilities that help them focus their magic/deplete magic and help them warn them of intruders coming to disturb their research. But what research do they do?? All their abilities seem to deal with magic itself or fighting other mages but not with anything they can do with that magic.
That said, I really do love your runes.
Mysticism is interesting. I especially like Aura of Vitality,  Green Litany and Runes of Breath (surprise). Talking about Runes of Breath also reminds me that the sorcerers lack some kind of top-end power or secret power.

Reading your magic I'm always surprised how expensive the abilities are fate-point-wise. I always had the feeling that fate points were at least semi-rare while reading the FATE rules...

Quote from: Luminous CrayonSo, brainstorming about Irasi and the Sages who practice it.

Conceptually, this is Kudan Mysticism turned inside-out: instead of externally-directed harmony (oneness with the world, with nature, with other life), it is internally-directed harmony (the oneness of the self). Irasi unabashedly cribs elements from wuxia films, Jedi knights, and a bevy of related sources; they share a kinship with many fictional traditions of puissant, mysterious warriors fueled by a deep well of supernatural power.

It should be noted that there's some dispute about whether Irasi counts as "magic" or not. Powerful Sages can do obviously, overtly supernatural things, but most Irasi techniques are much more subtle and internal. Most Sages themselves do not consider Irasi to be magic: instead, it's just about being at the peak of your personal ability, unlocking your full potential through discipline and balance. By this view, a Sage is no more magical than, say, a champion duelist, who is mentally and physically acute, and who fully understands the use and capabilities of his weapon.

One serious thing I'm worried about is that with Irasi I might be breaking one of my own cardinal rules re: magic design in my setting. That is, magic should not supplant mundane skills and prowess. In plain language, a mage shouldn't be a better warrior than a non-magical warrior, a better negotiator than a non-magical negotiator, and so on-- magic shouldn't be a universal key that opens every lock.

Frankly, I'm not sure how to faithfully represent Irasi with game mechanics in a way that leaves room for viable, non-magical experts in the same abilities, or whether Irasi, even without game mechanics, is a concept even capable of playing by my own rules.

an issue all games grapple with, and that most games solve by limits on duration, sustainability, resource management, possible consequences or uncertain success of magic.  It's OK to have a magically enhanced warrior that exceeds other warriors...for 60 seconds and that is it for the day for all magic use.  It's fine to have a magically enhanced negotiator being fantastic...if it has limits or can be seen through and the user will be vilified for it.  

Well, you could have magic be another suit of tools in the Sages arsenal. He can't kill with his magic; it only allows him to do extraordinary feats. A sword to the gut will still kill him, and his martial art skills will only ever be on par with any ordinary warrior.

Old stuff first, new stuff next.

Quote from: CCI still have a problem with the Sorcerers though. I really love the concept, but I can't seem to figure out their place in the world. They have abilities that help them focus their magic/deplete magic and help them warn them of intruders coming to disturb their research. But what research do they do?? All their abilities seem to deal with magic itself or fighting other mages but not with anything they can do with that magic.

The first sorcerors, the Cold Spring Drinkers, developed sorcery as part of a search for immortality-- they literally wanted their physical bodies to live forever-- which they failed to achieve. As an unintended consequence of their efforts, they stumbled upon many sorcerous techniques that remain in practice to the present day, and some that were lost-- such as a very peculiar ability to see the future (which the Cold Spring Drinkers had, but no other sorceror has ever achieved).

Unable to affect the far future directly (by being immortal and living to experience/rule it), these ur-sorcerors wrote a bunch of very specific letters to not-yet-born individuals, giving very specific instructions and advice to strangers in the future. They founded their order or sorcerors, in part, to safeguard these letters through the generations and make sure they reach their addressees.

Crunch-wise, this is unsatisfying as a power (and I don't think it needs to be a stunt at all), but the principal order of sorcerors acts as stewards for a storehouse full of mysterious letters. They'll take one, keep it safe for three hundred years, and then give it to a trusted courier, who will travel the world to give it to some far-flung nobody, who will open it and read: "Dear Steve, hope you're having a good century, don't eat the tuna salad today. Cordially, the Cold Spring Drinkers." (This is a flippant example, but still.)

Now, if I end up adding a bunch of additional powers for sorcerors, they'll probably trend toward these two failed goals: immortality and precognition. In earlier drafts, sorcerors had impossibly sensitive hearing, sight, that sort of thing-- making them well-suited to be spies, guards, etc. (With a Sorceror's Eye Sigil, they still are.) I'm not going to give sorcerors the powers their founders failed to achieve (or kept deadly secret), but those'll probably be a thematic guide for any further expansion.[/spoiler]Now, this is not to say that the problem you point out doesn't need fixing (it does), or even that my reasons are particularly good ones (they probably aren't.)
I do think you're absolutely right, at any rate: sorcerors need something else to do when they're not on counter-magic duty.

Quote from: CCMysticism is interesting. I especially like Aura of Vitality, Green Litany and Runes of Breath (surprise).

Reading your magic I'm always surprised how expensive the abilities are fate-point-wise. I always had the feeling that fate points were at least semi-rare while reading the FATE rules...[/quote]need[/i] "bad" aspects. People who think they're powergaming by only choosing aspects with no real downsides or drawbacks are starving themselves of fate points (and also, they are probably making pretty dull characters.))

I will go back through my magic stunts and try to figure out whether I've been overcharging them re: fate points, though. Many other stunts require fate point expenditure, but it usually goes along with some kind of very potent effect; I may well have been relying far too much on "spend a fate point" to keep magic on its leash, when other controlling factors might work just as well or better.

As for Irasi Sages, as a result of excellent advice given in this thread and in IRC, I have some new ideas about how to approach this tradition-- I am pretty excited about them! I want to grapple with the concept a little bit more before posting specifics, but I am pleased to be incorporating a variety of suggestions into (what I believe will probably be) the final solution.

Wow, I liked the name Cold Spring Drinker from the first time I saw it on the wiki, but that institution sounds like one of the coolest ideas I've heard for a while :)
And I reckon that some of the weaker spells might not be worth a fate point expenditure just as you say yourself.