The Campaign Builder's Guild

Yeah. I understood why 4E started with the base assumption of 5 players and 1 DM, but that doesn't really work for home games. Not for adults who don't have 9-5 mon-fri jobs.

Quote from: XeviatYeah. I understood why 4E started with the base assumption of 5 players and 1 DM, but that doesn't really work for home games. Not for adults who don't have 9-5 mon-fri jobs.

 Pretty much. I suppose the old market of D&D was composed of kids/teens, college goers and part timers who live off the wealth of others.

So I think D&D tapped the latter two markets pretty hard and kids aren't the best group to peg your future on (does any one remember the Pokemon TCG?). So the logical conclusion is that D&D must broaden the base to include other types of people, such as families, 9-5 workers, Old People and people who want to play via the magic of the web. The one thing all of these groups have in common is that they require a decrease in the number of assumed players.
 

My group and I are trying to pin down what it is about 4E we don't like. It's not a gameplay thing (though we think having a stack of power cards actually does the opposite of giving you more options because it seems to lock people into their powers rather than making them think "outside of the box"). We think it's a flavor thing, that the classes seem bland and boring, since you have to go read through the "mathy" powers to get the class's flavor.

I don't know.

Quote from: XeviatMy group and I are trying to pin down what it is about 4E we don't like. It's not a gameplay thing (though we think having a stack of power cards actually does the opposite of giving you more options because it seems to lock people into their powers rather than making them think "outside of the box"). We think it's a flavor thing, that the classes seem bland and boring, since you have to go read through the "mathy" powers to get the class's flavor.

I don't know.

d20 Modern and Star Wars Saga have the same problem - being able to choose your class powers from a small list instantly feels more constrained than just being given a class power. Add that to the math-y wording of the powers and the lack of a decent flavor description for each class and you wind up with something that's fairly dull. Plus, the Magic items look like Powers, so their's no relief!

The sad thing is that 4E is the perfect system for DM's. It's easy, clear, painless and fun... So just as 3.5 was a player's system, 4E is a DM's system. So does this mean 5E will be perfect... Or a player's system?  

Quote from: E_ESo does this mean 5E will be perfect... Or a player's system?

At the top of the post says there aren't going to be new editions? Dunno if that'll last.

Now, I liked the modularity of 3.5 (from what I've seen), but I think 4e has a much better layout and overall design.

Quote from: KindlingI have absolutely 0 experience with 4E so far, so I can't really comment on the rules side of things, but I have to say this seems to me to just be a moneymaking scheme.

I haven't played it either, but for the reviews I've read I think that you're probably right.

Quote from: KindlingThey may have a fair point about the game being hard to pick up for new players[...]. If they really wanted a newbie-friendly game they would publish something very rules-lite[...]

Completely agree. I think that a FUDGE-like system would be nice as an introduction, encouraging roleplaying rather than (stats) power-gaming...on a second thought, that's probably what they want, because the latter is probably more appealing to those with a trading card background.

Quote from: KindlingSo, I think the main objective with this move is probably "hey, we can sell ten core books instead of 3" but that may just be my cynicism talking...

In that case there's another cynic seconding your thoughts :D.

Number of players in my gaming group - 5, and 1 DM, but we switch DM roles every three or four sessions, depending if the current DM has a short campaign that lasts longer than that.

Regarding 4e (not my game) - consider I won a mapping contest where one of the prizes was the 4e Gift Set, and I chose something else, thus I wouldn't play it if you gave me the game for free, which was essentially what I would have got in winning that past contest.

Regarding the number of books for WotC anything - Paizo Pathfinder RPG, total number of books since its inception is two - Core Rulebook and Bestiary. Next August there will be the Advanced Players Guide and probably expectations of another Bestiary in the fall - that's two books a year. Where Paizo churns up material, that WotC doesn't, to me is the most important - Paizo cranks out settings, adventures and adventure paths (mini-campaigns.)

Also, though, since I am creating commercial 3pp game settings for Pathfinder RPG, its just better to stay in that rules set - keeps me sharp and knowledgeable when creating published settings. "Write what you know" as they say.

My 2 cents.

GPa

Did 4.0 get rid of this problem?  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards

Also, that's a pretty nifty money-making grab; wish I had thought of that.

I've also departed from WOTC stuff, except for what I've already got, and that's d20M and ADnD.  Didn't care much for 3.5, and didn't bother with 4 because nobody I knew wanted to switch out.  This might change their minds, however.

M.

Quote from: Stargate525I'm sorry, but ten books as a core is ridiculous. Core, for me, are the books I lug to my sessions every time. Ten of those is simply insane.

 PHB, MM, DMG, XPH, PHB2, Dragon Magic, and ComPsi are the books I usualy bring to a game group. Maybe switch out the last three for other books depending on who is running.

Quote from: CheomeshDid 4.0 get rid of this problem?  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards

Yes. They very much got rid of that. Now everyone gets awesome powers, and Warrior damage is very much on par with Caster damage. Possibly higher for single target.

Quote from: CheomeshDid 4.0 get rid of this problem?  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizard

Yes that was eliminated via, as Xeviant said, forcing each class to use the same power/spell mechanic. Now everyone is fairly linear.

However, there was much more emphasis put on the class' role in the party, so the Wizard will be great at AoE spells, while the fighter will be better at hitting a single enemy in melee.

Ok, this is completely unrelated, but how did Xeviat get his signature inside his quote box?

Quote from: LlumOk, this is completely unrelated, but how did Xeviat get his signature inside his quote box?

I don't know ... I think I didn't close the quote box.

How ever you may feel about 4E, I know I am buying the starter kit, if for no other reason than to have the box cover:

 

EE, let us know what you think.

Me, I'm actually going backwards; the next time I use DnD, if I ever do, it will be 2.5.

M.