The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: brainfaceSomething that maybe no one's covered is that most examples listed so far seem to deal with adults and their ideas. Assuming children follow the same rules, they could have some drastic effects as well. Sailors believe kraken exist far out in the ocean. Children believe monsters exist directly under their bed.

One child scared of the monster under their bed might not be enough to create one, but it seems like the boogey man would definitely exist. ^_^ Telling ghost stories might also be a bad idea.

Really, there's a whole host of groundless fears children have. Also adults, to be fair. Like the old wives tale that cats will steal the breath of a sleeping infant. What effect would such fears and superstitions have on your setting?

This leaves the door WIDE open to Freddy Kreuger style villains.   Just throwing it out there.

Quote from: Seraphine_Harmonium

Quote from: brainfaceSomething that maybe no one's covered is that most examples listed so far seem to deal with adults and their ideas. Assuming children follow the same rules, they could have some drastic effects as well. Sailors believe kraken exist far out in the ocean. Children believe monsters exist directly under their bed.

One child scared of the monster under their bed might not be enough to create one, but it seems like the boogey man would definitely exist. ^_^ Telling ghost stories might also be a bad idea.

Really, there's a whole host of groundless fears children have. Also adults, to be fair. Like the old wives tale that cats will steal the breath of a sleeping infant. What effect would such fears and superstitions have on your setting?

This leaves the door WIDE open to Freddy Kreuger style villains.   Just throwing it out there.

Ah! Good point. The boogeyman would definitely be a recurring enemy to any child and thereby adult, since most of those "superstitions" would become factual and physical. It really brings a Tim Burton (one of my personal favorites) feel to the scene without entirely dominating the setting. I like it!

I've thought about the repercussions of ghost stories and "make-believing" in general, which would probably be a very dangerous thing to do... well, en masse. A single person's belief in ghosts wouldn't justify their reality, but amidst far more people it would make them quite real. Also, cultural thought could easily impact certain things as well: perhaps Halflings believe ghosts are to be revered and are peaceful beings, so within their land ghosts might be seen regularly with little alarm. On the other hand, if Dwarves see ghosts as unnatural and fickle beings, then they might rightfully be so.

The boogeyman comment got me wondering... if I had a group of PCs fight the big bad boogeyman (that sounds like it would be a LOT of fun for me) and they won, I don't think that would be the end of the battle, necessarily. They would need to take the time to go about and spread the proof that the boogeyman is dead, either by presenting his head or something. If not, the boogeyman would simply feast its weakened energies upon the thoughts and fears of children and adults alike to reanimate itself into the physical world. This might take some time, but he could certainly be back in time to heckle the PCs again and exact his revenge. He is the Oogey-Boogey Man, after all ;].

This would give new definition to the Ranger class, or any sort of bounty hunter; they could hunt conjured fears and use diplomatic skill to convince people that his quarry is dead. Now that would be a fun concept to play around with...

So, would hurting or wounding a thoughtbeing have any repercussions on the minds that dreamt it up?

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowSo, would hurting or wounding a thoughtbeing have any repercussions on the minds that dreamt it up?

Interesting thought. To be honest, I never really considered it. I just assumed it was a one-way relationship: they could harm the thought beings by unbelieving, but it would never hurt them to have their thought being killed because they wouldn't be aware that it was even gone in the first place. It might actually be thematically more interesting to have it be a double-edged sword in which slaying a thought being harms the thinkers psyche in some way, since the abrupt disappearance of it causes a sort of break in the physicality of their world (having it fade away naturally, for whatever reason or another, would remain harmless).

I'm tempted to adopt this, only because my prior explanation where the PCs would have to go about proving they killed a being might be interesting once or twice, but could get annoyingly tedious and repetitive, especially if they shouldn't succeed in convincing everyone. BUT, at the same time, I'm reluctant to coin this one solely because I don't want the "heroes" to be responsible for the mental catastrophe of potentially thousands of NPCs.

Thoughts? I could always go back and provide an alternative to having to "convince" everyone of an iconic thought being's death... maybe make some sort of ritual they can perform to automatically clarify to the superconscious that "It's dead," which subconsciously notifies everyone else, who would still go about as if nothing happened (that might be a little too anticlimactic. Perhaps they know its gone and automatically let go of their specific belief that fueled it? That way the players could still receive congratulations when they return to the local populous).

PS: CC, I'm temporarily gonna borrow your term "thought being," (I like it) but it might change for the final project.

A lot of the concepts you could use here are already present in numerous belief systems. I'm tempted to quote them all, and I have already pointed out some, but that would make a long onerous list. Instead, I'll just throw out a few concepts which I think could be of use to you.

Democracy of Opinion, I learned this in Literature 101 when I used to be a litmajor before I shifted to more economically viable course called masscomm. It is pretty much a self explanatory concept, and its use to your campaign is that, your game reality now becomes one big democracy of opinion; where reality becomes what it is according to the majority number of consciousness that believe it to be what it truly is. What does this spell for your campaign? Simple, the power of idea and its ramifications.

Congress of Embryos, if your world then is a democracy of opinion, then it is the actualization of multiple consciousness in concert with each other. The significance here is that, reality itself could take sentience. Why? Simple. Imagine the matrix and its use of humanity as batteries. The minds of the humans are thus in concert, contributing to the formation of reality within the Matrix, kept in logical check by the machines. Thus, what we have here is that the consciousnesses affect reality in both natal and post natal state, thus having a Congress of Reality manned by embryos. This has its own ramifications.

Reflective Effect, this concerns the idea of Nature versus Nurture. If what people believe affect reality, then that reality also affects people like a mirror. This is the weakness of reality's stability, if reality fluctuates the people inside must also fluctuate like dominoes, who are in turn nurtured into affecting reality again...domino-effect entropy. If reality is in constant flux, as it should be, then the laws of logic, physics, and sanity must be altered to fit every schema that incidentally occurs.

Sentient Reality, this entropy could result in the evolved sentience of reality itself, outside the other reality which you already professed--of that demiurge that just happened to dream everyone else up.

Personal Reality, this is one idea I learned from To Aru Kagaku Railgun, Schrodinger effect and all that. It concerns what I have already mentioned before about how self-actualization could be a matter of existence and inexistence, with the fabric of reality so weak that you could cease to exist, or oscillate between existence and inexistence, dependent on the state of reality itself and its formation by others.

Here, the concepts of self, other, fringe, edge, and subalterns will play a good deal. Things are quite grievous when the possibility of your become a figment of someone's imagination becomes very real.

Finally, for stability, you need an anchor. This could take the form of a D20 Player's Handbook, an absolute truth, or even a piece of rock which exists only for itself and of itself. I hope I was helpful.

Quote from: The_Weave05Interesting thought. To be honest, I never really considered it. I just assumed it was a one-way relationship: they could harm the thought beings by unbelieving, but it would never hurt them to have their thought being killed because they wouldn't be aware that it was even gone in the first place. It might actually be thematically more interesting to have it be a double-edged sword in which slaying a thought being harms the thinkers psyche in some way, since the abrupt disappearance of it causes a sort of break in the physicality of their world (having it fade away naturally, for whatever reason or another, would remain harmless).

If a thought-being were destroyed or changed in some significant way, the people could receive prophetic visions about it. Probably something too vague and confusing for most to figure out just what has happened, but enough to realize that it's important. Then those responsible for the event could reveal the truth to the masses - or use the opportunity to trick them into believing something quite different...

Quote from: Teh_AzA lot of the concepts you could use here are already present in numerous belief systems. I'm tempted to quote them all, and I have already pointed out some, but that would make a long onerous list. Instead, I'll just throw out a few concepts which I think could be of use to you.

Democracy of Opinion, I learned this in Literature 101 when I used to be a litmajor before I shifted to more economically viable course called masscomm. It is pretty much a self explanatory concept, and its use to your campaign is that, your game reality now becomes one big democracy of opinion; where reality becomes what it is according to the majority number of consciousness that believe it to be what it truly is. What does this spell for your campaign? Simple, the power of idea and its ramifications.

Congress of Embryos, if your world then is a democracy of opinion, then it is the actualization of multiple consciousness in concert with each other. The significance here is that, reality itself could take sentience. Why? Simple. Imagine the matrix and its use of humanity as batteries. The minds of the humans are thus in concert, contributing to the formation of reality within the Matrix, kept in logical check by the machines. Thus, what we have here is that the consciousnesses affect reality in both natal and post natal state, thus having a Congress of Reality manned by embryos. This has its own ramifications.

Reflective Effect, this concerns the idea of Nature versus Nurture. If what people believe affect reality, then that reality also affects people like a mirror. This is the weakness of reality's stability, if reality fluctuates the people inside must also fluctuate like dominoes, who are in turn nurtured into affecting reality again...domino-effect entropy. If reality is in constant flux, as it should be, then the laws of logic, physics, and sanity must be altered to fit every schema that incidentally occurs.

Sentient Reality, this entropy could result in the evolved sentience of reality itself, outside the other reality which you already professed--of that demiurge that just happened to dream everyone else up.

Personal Reality, this is one idea I learned from To Aru Kagaku Railgun, Schrodinger effect and all that. It concerns what I have already mentioned before about how self-actualization could be a matter of existence and inexistence, with the fabric of reality so weak that you could cease to exist, or oscillate between existence and inexistence, dependent on the state of reality itself and its formation by others.

Here, the concepts of self, other, fringe, edge, and subalterns will play a good deal. Things are quite grievous when the possibility of your become a figment of someone's imagination becomes very real.

Finally, for stability, you need an anchor. This could take the form of a D20 Player's Handbook, an absolute truth, or even a piece of rock which exists only for itself and of itself. I hope I was helpful.

You clearly have a more vast understanding of this subject than I do, but I'm also only a sophomore in college majoring in Psychology, so I have to give myself a little leeway. Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I think I generally understand what you mean. The one thing that went over my head was what you mean by an "anchor." Are you referring to a unifying concept to ground my world around? You threw me off when you mentioned a D20 Player's Handbook  :) . I was hoping for the Law to become a central, immutable concept to begin folding the setting around, but I know it isn't quite enough. It's so strange you mention a piece of rock, because I actually have an unknown material that penetrates the center of the plane like a pole, silvery and indestructible and immutable, with alien hieroglyphics covering it. Nothing has been able to alter it, and it seems to stretch below ground endlessly. The world, as a dreamer, goes through the sleep cycles, it just takes a millennia to go through one. Every time it cycles through them, the "dreamworld" its creates is destroyed and reborn... naturally, no one in the setting is aware of this, but this "rock" is always there, containing the etchings of thousands of past civilizations that have been destroyed. You reminded me of it.

And thank you for the valuable information. It was very helpful.

Quote from: GhostmanIf a thought-being were destroyed or changed in some significant way, the people could receive prophetic visions about it. Probably something too vague and confusing for most to figure out just what has happened, but enough to realize that it's important. Then those responsible for the event could reveal the truth to the masses - or use the opportunity to trick them into believing something quite different...

That might be the best way to go. Something commonplace that doesn't constantly detract from their known reality, but is significant enough for them to realize that they've changed in some way. I think I really need to think this one out before I can get a clear idea as to what I wanna do with it.

Quote from: the weaveThe one thing that went over my head was what you mean by an "anchor." Are you referring to a unifying concept to ground my world around? You threw me off when you mentioned a D20 Player's Handbook

It's so strange you mention a piece of rock, because I actually have an unknown material that penetrates the center of the plane like a pole, silvery and indestructible and immutable, with alien hieroglyphics covering it. Nothing has been able to alter it, and it seems to stretch below ground endlessly. The world, as a dreamer, goes through the sleep cycles, it just takes a millennia to go through one. Every time it cycles through them, the "dreamworld" its creates is destroyed and reborn... naturally, no one in the setting is aware of this, but this "rock" is always there, containing the etchings of thousands of past civilizations that have been destroyed. You reminded me of it.[/quote]

Hmm, maybe if you killed a thought-being its existence would fade from the world until somebody dreamt it up again.
People would forget about the reality they had dreamt up since it has been destroyed, and the idea of the thought-being would become myth, story or nothing at all.  

Okay, so I've thought some things out and here's what I've come up with:

By themselves, only those capable of magic can alter the world, albeit in small ways (spells). Anyone else can alter the world so long as they and many others believe what they think to be true. Usually, these changes take decades, if not longer, but the changes can be accelerated depending on the conviction and the amount of people who believe it (or decelerated, should there be less conviction and/or people).

The alterations that such thoughts can bring are absolute within the area in which people believe it. For example, if a group of Elves believe that by sacrificing an animal they can extend their hours of daylight, then so long as they sacrifice and believe then the hours of the day are extended within their land. Think of the believe as a burst effect, emanating from the most congested area of Elves and radiating from it until and other believers in a large radius around them.

Very few know of this Law, but even knowing of it doesn't always negate the beliefs of the person; it takes a certain training of thought to truly grasp the conceptuality behind it. Particularly well-educated or spiritual people would be more likely to know of and possibly understand this Law, though it is by no means taught in regular schooling.

The Law itself is immutable and not subject to its own rules.

Regarding thought beings:

Thought beings are the result of rampant, unchecked imagination. In most civilized societies, Thought Purgers (specialized mages) go about and use their Fetches (familiars) to prune the minds of the common folk, removing "dangerous thoughts." Though few people take solace in the thought of strangers fiddling around in their heads, they understand it to be a sort of tax in exchange for communal safety on behalf of the higher-ups in charge. On a similar note, few common folk even understand what exactly they're doing; Thought Purgers come about when the regular taxes do, and collect both at the same time. They usually ask a person to hold their "pet" as they collect the money, allowing the pet to play with their hair, secretly delving through the various thoughts of the individual.

Often times, Thought Purgers (better name pending...) don't always manage to remove the dangerous thoughts and thought beings are conjured. When those thought beings are killed, their ties to the folks that believed them are diminished, sometimes enough to prevent them from reformulating. Other times, for particularly popular thought beings, it takes proof of their slaying or a powerful ritual to have them removed from the mass of minds that brought them into being.

I think thats it... but I might've forgot something I meant to cover.

I love your idea of Thought Purgers. It's like the SS but they could erase your memories.