The Campaign Builder's Guild

Sex is a sensitive subject, and rather taboo.  Sex is a huge part of life, but society (especially in America) tends to be very sexually repressed.  When sexual themes enter a work of literature, a work of art, or a game, it can be very controversial.  Some feel that games, literature, movies, art and the like will corrupt the youth.  Others ridicule the horny nerds who play nubile elf warriors sporting chainmail bikinis.  But there are also those who would say it's totally healthy to have fantasies, and that since sex is a natural part of life, having it show up in games is no big deal, or might even be a good thing.  When it comes to sex in the games you play, or the worlds you build, how big a role do sex and sexuality play?  How much sex is acceptable?  How much is desired?  Where does it cross the line?

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumWhere does it cross the line?

This one is pretty easy, as soon as someone is uncomfortable in your game, you've crossed the line. If it's just for a written setting, you have free reign IMO. No one is forced to read your stuff. (Just be aware some sites have policies about stuff like this, like the CBG).

I don't really have much else to say. I'm not a fan of sex in games/settings for the same reason I'm not a fan of sex in literature (if you'd call novel fiction literature :P ), because it's pretend. If I want sex, I'll have real sex. I don't see the point of reading about it, seems pointless to me.

Quote from: Llum

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumWhere does it cross the line?

I'm also not necessarily talking about writing something that's just "about sex," though.  Take world building, for instance: If you want to build a plausible sounding society IN FULL, some thoughts must be given to sexuality.  This does not necessarily mean narration of two people getting it on, but you would at least have to consider the moral codes built into society about sex: what is allowed, what is taboo, etc.  Strictly speaking, a campaign setting does not NEED to examine these, and often times, they don't.  But to know what society says is kosher and what will send you to prison or get you ostracized or banished is potent information.  Deciding not to look into this because it is sex-related is a big decision.  

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumWhen it comes to sex in the games you play, or the worlds you build, how big a role do sex and sexuality play?
How much sex is acceptable?
How much is desired?  
Where does it cross the line?

It generally plays no role except perhaps in what you can glean from information relating to things like fertility gods and jealous lovers and so forth. Not because it bothers me but because it bothers others. If I'm in a group that has no issue with it I have no problem dealing with it, but I won't force such things on someone who is uncomfortable with the topic.

I believe that sex is a primal, dynamic force in our psyche.

Thus, ignoring this in a game that attempts immersion is counter productive.  I included it in my skill rules (BAsic Carnal is a skill.   Really), and it has been part of many games.  I have pcs with wives, with hsubands, old relationships.  We had 2 pregnancies, 3 cases of an STD, at least half a dozen rapes/rape attempts...my job is to provide the world...their job is to play in it.

I think its a little strange. Mentioning it is no big deal, as long as everyone is mature enough to handle it. A sex related theme, like a noble having an affair, makes the world seem more realistic. But when it gets to the point where it describes it in great detail, it becomes provacative, and when you're being provacative in your writing that's a whole different type of writing.

I have to agree with Seraphine and Vreeg. I feel that the more you censor and/or leave out, the less realistic a setting feels. While not a major point of my settings by any means, sex is present and used without scrutiny. It can make just as effective a plot device as most other things.

I'll chime in - vital to a fully realized setting and folly to ignore.  However, it can be uncomfortable in an actual game, if it plays a prominent role - depends on the players and GM.

TBH I think it's folly to claim it is vital to include sex in a setting to make it realistic. Some settings can actually be detracted from if you add it to them. It is necessary to examine each setting individually (as it is for any other thing you put in) before putting sex into it. It would be unwise to just toss it in slapdash without regard for whether the setting really needs it.

Oh, I agree that sex shouldn't just be shoved in - but I think it's very difficult to avoid sex altogether, even if it stays in the background.  I'm just saying that the most realistic worlds tend to incorporate sex somehow, even if it's subtle and not the focus.  It doesn't have to be sex itself so much as the culture around sex (marriage rites, for example - is bigamy acceptable?  Polyandry?  Or just plain old heterosexual monogamy?); it doesn't have to be in-your-face or play a major part of adventures. More on the level of "what do these people eat," or "what are the laws in this town" kind of thing.  That said, it's probably not the most important thing to dwell on in most settings.

I'm taking a class on Jewish Messiahs, and the professor was telling us about the story of Cain and Abel, and why it was that Abel was murdered.  According to my professor, there were three stories pushed: That he was killed over a land dispute, that he was killed over a sacrifice to God, and that he was killed over a woman they both wanted.

The teacher explained that this shows that "there are 3 things Jews fight over: Property, Religion, and Sex."

While the teacher put this in the context of Jews, I think the concept is rather universal, really.  While it may be an oversimplification, I think most conflicts have something, at least peripherally, to do with property, religion, or sex.  

Sex, used in a background sense, can be the motivating force behind some conflict:  Helen and the Trojan War, for instance.  On a smaller scale, you have duels to defend the honor of a lady who has been slandered (proclaimed a strumpet or some such).  There are a number of myths in which a hero undertakes great tasks for the wooing and winning of a lady. Perhaps a war of religion breaks out because the king decides to leave the faith and start a new religion so he can divorce his wife who has failed to bear him an heir.

Having some amount of sexuality be present, even if it's just in the background as an idea, opens up a lot of possibilities, and allows for a richer backdrop and a more real seeming world.  There may be some settings in which it doesn't work, and that's fine.  In most cases however, I think it makes a setting more realistic.  I won't make absolutes, but I can't think of a case in which absenting sex completely from a setting makes it more realistic.

In Igbar, we have a PC (Cyriel) who has ended up as the slightly younger male protege to Samria, one of the 2 heads of the Alternative School of Magic.  They have a sexual relationship, to the point that she has installed him in a suite near her rooms.  
Palimar, the other head of the guild, is her husband.  They are estranged right now because she blames Palimar for the kidnapping of their daughter years ago and for her current dissapearance.  

This subplot in the Igbar game would not have the same power without the cuckolding.  Period.

It's a little strange, I think, to assert that deciding not to deal with sex hurts the detail level or the "immersion" of the setting. There are all sorts of details we could choose to deal with for the sake of detail/immersion, but we seldom if ever actually include, because they're unnecessary or distasteful. (When's the last time you saw a world that dealt seriously with infant mortality rates, for example, or included at least one restroom facility?)

I'm not sure how I want to split this issue up, but it seems to me that it definitely does need to be split: part of the "what do I include, and how?" choice is made by the world's writer, and part is made by the person running the game. (Even if the same person performs both roles, the decision is made separately, in both venues.) You could run a very racy game in a very chastely-written setting, and you could take a world that doesn't shy away from the topic of sex at all and run a game therein that doesn't touch that subject matter at all.

I think there are ways to handle the subject of sex in a world that are skillful and satisfying, and there are ways to handle sex that are clumsy and embarrassing-- much like actual sex, really. Hamfisted and inept treatment of sex can be a huge deterrent to readers/players (it's why I put down Terry Goodkind in disgust, personally), and can make a work into a laughingstock (see the F.A.T.A.L. RPG system for a hilariously shameful example). I think that, provided it's audience appropriate, deft (and a little bit cagey) handling of the subject of sex can add depth to a setting, but there are a lot of ways to do it wrong.

My own personal guidelines are two: when sex appears as a topic, it 1.) is treated matter-of-factly, and 2.) occurs "offscreen".

I have sex that shows up in the various background mythology of the Jade Stage, and the more I get into the mortal histories, the more likely it is to show up there, too. (I spent a while trying to avoid it completely, and the results just felt forced and unnatural.) I've played characters in other games that have used sexual relationships with other PCs or with NPCs as compelling plot points (Gordin, in Vreeg's Steel Isle game is a current example). But it's never, ever a thing I want to dwell on or describe graphically-- if you can't do it with discretion, you can't do it.

[blockquote=LC]My own personal guidelines are two: when sex appears as a topic, it 1.) is treated matter-of-factly, and 2.) occurs "offscreen". [/blockquote]
Offscreen ...LOL...I, being the Non-imitation, DO-NOT-TRY-THIS-AT-HOME, Internaltional-Class pervert that I am, am now imagining RPGs with sex scenes being played 'onscreen'.

Quote from: LordVreegOffscreen ...LOL...I, being the Non-imitation, DO-NOT-TRY-THIS-AT-HOME, Internaltional-Class pervert that I am, am now imagining RPGs with sex scenes being played 'onscreen'.

Imagine a Venn diagram, with two circles labeled "people LC plays RPGs with" and "people who LC is comfortable having explicit sexychat with". Also imagine that the two circles do not overlap. Actually, they are nowhere near each other; they are cowering, confused and apprehensive, in opposite corners of the paper, intermittently trading furtive and suspicious glances.