The Campaign Builder's Guild

So, aside from the inability to rely on compasses (in the traditional sense, at least. Perhaps compasses work differently in my world), are there any unforeseen ramifications for not having a magnetic north?

EDIT: Actually, I didn't realize how vague this question actually is. I kind of threw it out on a whim, and looking back it appears as though this could just lead to more questions (possibly a good thing!). So, I apologize for the ill-defined post.

Do you mean that the planet lacks a magnetic field entirely? Or that there is a magnetic field but it doesn't have a magnetic north (and south)? Is it even possible for a magnetic field to lack poles?

Or perhaps there are poles but they just keep moving, so that while there technically exists a magnetic north, it's corresponding geographic location is constantly moving. Note that this means you have a moving magnetic field, which may generate an electric field.

As for the implications of all this: if your planet lacks a magnetic field, some of the cosmic rays (charged particles) that would have been deflected by the magnetic field will be hitting the planet instead.

Auroras ("northern lights") also occur near the poles on Earth because the magnetic field traps the particles and they penetrate the atmosphere near the magnetic poles. This phenomenon would also be affected by what ever decision you'll come to.

A weird little detail, but birds probably wouldn't migrate, since evidence suggests that at least some birds navigate by using magnetic fields (it's quite possible they actually see magnetic fields somehow, though I have no idea how the heck that works).

Quote from: SteerpikeA weird little detail, but birds probably wouldn't migrate, since evidence suggests that at least some birds navigate by using magnetic fields (it's quite possible they actually see magnetic fields somehow, though I have no idea how the heck that works).

It's probably a lot more than just birds. Turtles can, and there's this weird thing where cows tend to line their bodies North-South. Cows do this everywhere in the world, although being under power lines apparent affects it (so magnetic fields are believed to be the cause).

The magnetic field gives a significant amount of protection from cosmic rays like Ghostman said.

As long as you have an alternative there won't be many ramifications (ME doesn't have a north pole, for obvious reasons but it has equivalent ways to navigate). A simple example is that migratory animals don't use only the magnetic field to migrate. Some rely on it but there are plenty of documented species that navigate using the sun and stars or the physical landscape itself. As far as compasses go, they're out but it isn't hard to come up with an alternative (polycarp pulled this off in an interesting rehash of the compass concept with clockwork jungle and the lodestones). The protection from radiation is another thing that has to be overcome, but it can be.

Depending on how "realistic" the universe is radiation could be hand-waved... I mean, some worlds (Jade Stage, for example) have unorthodox shapes that probably wouldn't generate proper gravity, but it's not that big an issue.

Some basic ramifications off the top of my head:

Navigation:
-Overland navigation would be more difficult, as you're limited to solar direction during the day and a little more accurate stellar nav during the night in addition to triangulation and a map. coincidentally, no navigation can be done near noon, as it would most likely be too difficult to determine the actual angle of the sun.
-Water navigation would be stunted. Until they determine the local noon trick (and determining the earth is round) for latitude, it's unlikely that ships will go beyond sight of land.

Physical:
-What the others said.
-No northern lights, if we're going with the 'no magnetic field' thing.
-discovery of electromagnetism likely to be delayed, as there is no readily observable phenomena as an example. Barring lightning, but you can't experiment with that.

Social:
-Maps will most likely tend to orient East side up, or have its upward angle towards some sort of significant location (like the old medieval Jerusalem-up maps).
-No compasses, obviously.
-There is no easy way to determine an alignment with north or south, outside of a solar one. If any religions have architecture that must face a certain way, it's likely to be a bit more involved.

Quote from: GhostmanDo you mean that the planet lacks a magnetic field entirely? Or that there is a magnetic field but it doesn't have a magnetic north (and south)? Is it even possible for a magnetic field to lack poles?

Or perhaps there are poles but they just keep moving, so that while there technically exists a magnetic north, it's corresponding geographic location is constantly moving. Note that this means you have a moving magnetic field, which may generate an electric field.

As for the implications of all this: if your planet lacks a magnetic field, some of the cosmic rays (charged particles) that would have been deflected by the magnetic field will be hitting the planet instead.

Auroras ("northern lights") also occur near the poles on Earth because the magnetic field traps the particles and they penetrate the atmosphere near the magnetic poles. This phenomenon would also be affected by what ever decision you'll come to.

A straight wire carrying an electric charge would generate an electric field that encircles it, without any poles. In normal cases, any magnetic field lines that you'd draw outside a magnet to represent the field would point north-south, but there aren't any to point to in this situation. Whether this knowledge has any effect on the idea for the setting, I'm not sure.

Quote from: Stargate525Overland navigation would be more difficult, as you're limited to solar direction during the day and a little more accurate stellar nav during the night in addition to triangulation and a map. coincidentally, no navigation can be done near noon, as it would most likely be too difficult to determine the actual angle of the sun.

Unless you're lined up with the sun (for example if you're at the equator) it casts a shadow even at noon which can be used to determine which way is north/south. The shadow might be small but it will be there.

Quote from: NomadicUnless you're lined up with the sun (for example if you're at the equator) it casts a shadow even at noon which can be used to determine which way is north/south. The shadow might be small but it will be there.

At which point you need an accurate timepiece. A sundial won't work, since that needs to be lined up with North, which you can't find without the shadow, etcetera. It's a nasty catch 22.

The point I'm really trying to say is that accurate determination of direction via the sun will require the person to sit around and wait for noon, as well as mark increments towards it.

Thanks for the responses! My setting focuses at being more dreamlike than real, and I was working on writing something up to help embody that. Long ago, I had the intention to have the world "thought-out" as you travel, like how a mind might in a dream. It was a very tricky and delicate endeavor, since it made maps fundamentally useless and it was tough to keep things from getting too wacky. I then thought up a way for special Schematamancers to tap into the "collective unconscious," or Oversoul, of the world to give it more stabilizing and remembering thoughts for its landscapes, thus allowing me to actually map out some of the setting and not just make it up as I go. It was when one of my players became interested in purchasing a compass when I thought to myself: "Does my setting even have those?" From there, I determined that my setting probably doesn't even have a magnetic north.

Now, because my setting is intentionally left as more of an abstraction and strays from realistic measures, I could easily hand wave all of it, but I was curious to see what possible implications there could be... you never know what responses could spur a new idea!

Little things like Steerpike's comment on birds not migrating were eye-catching, but also the things Stargate525 listed give me some serious food for thought. I'll probably hand wave the bit on radiation, but timepieces will be something I'll have to figure out.

Quote from: Stargate525

Quote from: NomadicUnless you're lined up with the sun (for example if you're at the equator) it casts a shadow even at noon which can be used to determine which way is north/south. The shadow might be small but it will be there.

At which point you need an accurate timepiece. A sundial won't work, since that needs to be lined up with North, which you can't find without the shadow, etcetera. It's a nasty catch 22.

The point I'm really trying to say is that accurate determination of direction via the sun will require the person to sit around and wait for noon, as well as mark increments towards it.

No. If it isn't noon they can simply use the direction of the sun provided it rises in a certain direction every day. If it is noon then they can still generally get it with the shadow trick. These get you general directions which are good enough for a layman who needs some basic information. High accuracy can be attained with the use of a watch, even more accuracy with a map and a sextant or mariners astrolabe.

Quote from: The_Weave05Thanks for the responses! My setting focuses at being more dreamlike than real, and I was working on writing something up to help embody that. Long ago, I had the intention to have the world "thought-out" as you travel, like how a mind might in a dream. It was a very tricky and delicate endeavor, since it made maps fundamentally useless and it was tough to keep things from getting too wacky. I then thought up a way for special Schematamancers to tap into the "collective unconscious," or Oversoul, of the world to give it more stabilizing and remembering thoughts for its landscapes, thus allowing me to actually map out some of the setting and not just make it up as I go. It was when one of my players became interested in purchasing a compass when I thought to myself: "Does my setting even have those?" From there, I determined that my setting probably doesn't even have a magnetic north.

You might have sort of 'dream-compass' that points towards the most powerful center of 'thinking.' If it works like that, that is.

In my campaign, there's a magnetic north, but it's not used often in favor of a set of powerful magical centers. Since each can be centered on independently, it's pretty trivial to triangulate your position.

on achieving a dream-like setting, I've always appreciated what was done with Everworld; the "rules" exist. they don't make any discernible sense, but they are there. somewhere. explicitly pointing out when they don't make sense (or even seem to be self-contradictory) helps highlight that they do exist.

A couple thoughts on navigation:

Stellar navigation wouldn't really be hindered by a lack of a magnetic North at all, would it? If I'm not mistaken, we were navigating by the stars before we knew about magnetic North.

Depending on how you want compasses to (possibly, if they exist) work, they really don't have much reason to point North, specifically. Now that I think of it, magnetic North is just as arbitrary of a reference point as any other, isn't it? Besides, who says your party wants to go North, anyway?