The Campaign Builder's Guild

One of the other settings I'm currently working on is my own spin on the Underdark, the world-spanning series of caverns and tunnels popularized by R.A. Salvatore. While trying to avoid many of the usual tropes of the series, I've run into a block as to what races to populate my setting with and how to make sure that all of them are distinct from the general sludge of fantasy creatures. So far, I've managed to come up with;

Drow: still black-skinned, white-haired, and red-eyed, they've ditched the murderous infighting and crushing matriarchy in exchange for a more united, gender-neutral society. They're still evil by most upperworld standards, but murdering your superior is not the only way of bettering your own position. Furthermore, they don't slavishly worship any sort of sadistic spider-goddess, prefering a more atheistic/egotheistic outlook on the underworld.

Goblins: tribally-organized, animistic creatures, they are actually far from weak, possessing excellent musculature despite their lanky appearance. While far from geniuses, they are generally not stupid and are just as capable warriors as any other race, when fighting on their own terms. Rival dwarves in their smithing abilities.

Kobolds: more canine than reptilian, they have blunter snouts and smoother skin than many depictions of them provide. Like goblins, they are far from stupid or incompetent, though they are one of the weakest races. They are excellent burrowers and tunnellers as well as some of the finest trapsmiths in the Underdark.

Dwarves: excellent workers of stone and metal, they are extremely focused and industrious. They are not more technologically-skilled than other races, nor do they drink heavily or grow long beards. Culture focused on craftsmanship, industriousness, and the pursuit of perfection. Very aggressive and expansionist, always seeking to expand their territory at the expense of other races. Mortal foes of the drow and goblins.

Gnomes: they do not possess any sort of advanced technology or science, nor any outstanding magical abilities. Like kobolds, their most hated of foes, they are fast and agile tunnelers. Artistic pursuits and careers are the most common, for they have a great love of beautiful wares and trinkets. Always seeking after veins of precious metals and stones.

Trogoldytes: territorial and militaristic fish-people, they mainly inhabit underwater warrens in the lower depths of the Underdark, though they will flood upper ones to make they more suitable dwellings. Use pearls for their currency, which is comparatively more valuable than that of other races. No qualms about cannibalizing other races or even their fellows. Close allies of the drow.

Yig: universally-genius creatures with the upper body of a human and the lower body of a large serpent. Long-lived, philosophically-minded, and coldly-rational. Come across as emotionless and uncaring to many other races. Strict heirarchical structure to their society. Use serpents and other reptiles as other races use hounds or cats. Prefer their food still-living when they eat it.

Undead Lords: loose assortment of liches, vampires, necromancers, and the like ruling over populaces of the undead, which may or may not possess consciousnesses of their own. Generally insular and focused on their own affairs, they are formidable and unpredictable foes when pushed.

Flayers: essentially Illithids without much of their psionic power or their need to subsist entirely on fresh brains. Almost universally magic-users of considerable stength and knowledge. Asexual, but many display particular gender traits. Amongst the largest population of slaves in the Underdark, which they use for food as well as labor. So-named for their habit of picking apart their meals layer-by-layer with their tentacles as they eat them.

There are still other intelligent races, but none large enough to comprise their own distinct nation. Are there any suggestions on ones I could add or how I might alter the ones presented here? Any general crtiques or recommendations for the larger setting?

Interesting take on all of the races.

You've definitely made it clear that the usual stereotypes of technologically advanced gnomes or dwarves don't exist.  Are any of the races technologically advanced, or is this going to be a fairly low-tech setting?

Have you considered adding aboleths?  In keeping with the general trend of the changes, the aboleths could fill the niche of "remote lore-master" or "reclusive scholar" rather than being Lovecraftian sea beasties bent on dominion.  Just a thought.

Finally, and just because it might appeal to you if you're making an Underdark setting, I ran my own Underdark campaign last summer, and wrote up the notes with illustrations - it's the "Goblin" link in my signature.  It's pretty different than your own take on the Underdark and much more stereotypical/less original, though!

Quote from: SteerpikeYou've definitely made it clear that the usual stereotypes of technologically advanced gnomes or dwarves don't exist.  Are any of the races technologically advanced, or is this going to be a fairly low-tech setting?

In most cases, niches that might be filled by technology are instead powered by magic, though doing so is expensive and generally not widespread. For example, the house of a rich drow might be subtly illuminated by jars filled with glowing magical dust or enchanted candles that never burn out, or an elite soldier might carry a wand "pre-loaded" with a certain ammount of fireball spells. In general though, technology is on a roughly-medieval level, architectural advances nonwithstanding.

Hm, I was considering aboleths, and I think I might actually include them now. And yes, I have read your Underdark campaign; one of the things that inspired me to write this, actually!

I second the aboleth idea. You've got plenty enough major races for the game but you could consider adding minotaurs in a significant role as well - the winding tunnels of the Underdark are the perfect place for them.

What sourcebooks are you using, if any?

Hello, and welcome.

I'd be interested in hearing how your races evolved, that might give some insight into their eventual social structure. Thinking about evolution and social hierarchies is really helpful in differentiating you setting and making it seem "real" rather than just fantasy "sludge" as you described it. I find it interesting to know how each of these races came to be, their ecologies, and how they are able to share the land. A good start.

China Mieville is good in his books at describing the why and the how of how creatures came to be.

You may consider adding rat-creatures or cockroach-creatures.

Good luck!

Since you mentioned you liked reading some people's threads here at the CBG; here's a few older threads with some takes on the underdark:

http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?63379.post (General Chatter about Underdarks)

http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74924.0#post_76339 (Leetz' attempt part II)
http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?71210.0#post_71295 (Leetz' attempt Part I- More substantial)

Steerpike's already mentioned GOBLIN! http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?68868.0

Quote from: GypsylightOne of the other settings I'm currently working on is my own spin on the Underdark, the world-spanning series of caverns and tunnels popularized by R.A. Salvatore. While trying to avoid many of the usual tropes of the series, I've run into a block as to what races to populate my setting with and how to make sure that all of them are distinct from the general sludge of fantasy creatures. So far, I've managed to come up with;

Drow: still black-skinned, white-haired, and red-eyed, they've ditched the murderous infighting and crushing matriarchy in exchange for a more united, gender-neutral society. They're still evil by most upperworld standards, but murdering your superior is not the only way of bettering your own position. Furthermore, they don't slavishly worship any sort of sadistic spider-goddess, prefering a more atheistic/egotheistic outlook on the underworld.

Goblins: tribally-organized, animistic creatures, they are actually far from weak, possessing excellent musculature despite their lanky appearance. While far from geniuses, they are generally not stupid and are just as capable warriors as any other race, when fighting on their own terms. Rival dwarves in their smithing abilities.

Kobolds: more canine than reptilian, they have blunter snouts and smoother skin than many depictions of them provide. Like goblins, they are far from stupid or incompetent, though they are one of the weakest races. They are excellent burrowers and tunnellers as well as some of the finest trapsmiths in the Underdark.

Dwarves: excellent workers of stone and metal, they are extremely focused and industrious. They are not more technologically-skilled than other races, nor do they drink heavily or grow long beards. Culture focused on craftsmanship, industriousness, and the pursuit of perfection. Very aggressive and expansionist, always seeking to expand their territory at the expense of other races. Mortal foes of the drow and goblins.

Gnomes: they do not possess any sort of advanced technology or science, nor any outstanding magical abilities. Like kobolds, their most hated of foes, they are fast and agile tunnelers. Artistic pursuits and careers are the most common, for they have a great love of beautiful wares and trinkets. Always seeking after veins of precious metals and stones.

Trogoldytes: territorial and militaristic fish-people, they mainly inhabit underwater warrens in the lower depths of the Underdark, though they will flood upper ones to make they more suitable dwellings. Use pearls for their currency, which is comparatively more valuable than that of other races. No qualms about cannibalizing other races or even their fellows. Close allies of the drow.

Yig: universally-genius creatures with the upper body of a human and the lower body of a large serpent. Long-lived, philosophically-minded, and coldly-rational. Come across as emotionless and uncaring to many other races. Strict heirarchical structure to their society. Use serpents and other reptiles as other races use hounds or cats. Prefer their food still-living when they eat it.

Undead Lords: loose assortment of liches, vampires, necromancers, and the like ruling over populaces of the undead, which may or may not possess consciousnesses of their own. Generally insular and focused on their own affairs, they are formidable and unpredictable foes when pushed.

Flayers: essentially Illithids without much of their psionic power or their need to subsist entirely on fresh brains. Almost universally magic-users of considerable stength and knowledge. Asexual, but many display particular gender traits. Amongst the largest population of slaves in the Underdark, which they use for food as well as labor. So-named for their habit of picking apart their meals layer-by-layer with their tentacles as they eat them.

There are still other intelligent races, but none large enough to comprise their own distinct nation. Are there any suggestions on ones I could add or how I might alter the ones presented here? Any general crtiques or recommendations for the larger setting?

Welcome to the Home of Settings and Campaigns.

I could better give advice if I understood more.  

1) What interaction/cooperation with these seperate races have with each other?  Are there nations below that are comprised of more than one race?  if there is real seperation, what caused this extreme xenophobia?  What is the 'food chain'?  And what part does resource location play in the this?  How would a vien of iron, or a vein of gold, or worse, truesilver, play out in this?

2) You mention lack of tech a few times; I need to understand the level of magic and the tech level in general better.

3) What interaction does your underdark have with the surface?  I assume it varies?

4)I am not getting a real alignment feel, or even a real ruleset feel.  That could help a lot in giving advice.

5) Population density, and levels of population.  How far does one travel to see another settlement?  Are there groups close to each other?

Quote from: LordVreeg1) What interaction/cooperation with these seperate races have with each other?  Are there nations below that are comprised of more than one race?  if there is real seperation, what caused this extreme xenophobia?  What is the 'food chain'?  And what part does resource location play in the this?  How would a vien of iron, or a vein of gold, or worse, truesilver, play out in this?

Due to the frequently fierce competition for resources, most nations are at best tense friends and at worst mortal enemies; this is nations in the sense of an autonomous political unit, which usdually comprises only a fraction of a race's entire population. Thus, conflicts within a race as just as common, if not moreso, than between them. The exact value of resources vary from region-to-region or race-to-race: veins of iron and other ordinary metals, though extremely important to most races' lifestyles, are far from precious, while good wood is as valuable as any precious metals. Thus, a war is more likely to errupt over who controls the territory than contains the downward-stretching roots of an enormous tree than one that merely hosts a vein of gold. Areas that are rich in such resources are also usually the site of multiple cities.

Quote from: LordVreeg2) You mention lack of tech a few times; I need to understand the level of magic and the tech level in general better.

There is technology, but it is at a roughly-medieval level. Magical items are unmistakably magical in nature and almost always out of reach for memebers of the underclasses.

Quote from: LordVreeg3) What interaction does your underdark have with the surface?  I assume it varies?

Typically, very few. They might raid surface settlements for slaves or loot, but most races have little desire to extend their influences upwardly. Rarely, they actually trade with surface races for goods they have extreme difficulty acquiring underground: honey, for instance. Of all the races, dwarves and gnomes are the most prolific traders.

Quote from: LordVreeg4)I am not getting a real alignment feel, or even a real ruleset feel.  That could help a lot in giving advice.

Evil, mostly of the lawful and neutral variety. Even "good" races like the dwarves can be abhorently brutal to their enemies when they feel their backs are against the wall, which in the Underdark is pretty much always.

Quote from: LordVreeg5) Population density, and levels of population.  How far does one travel to see another settlement?  Are there groups close to each other?

Because of the sheer size of the Underdark, the actual population is a vague number but generally estimated to be enormous. Cities frequently expand vertically as well as horizontally, with "suburbs" and smaller settlements extending outwards from the dense urban hub. Large areas of "wilderness" stretch between these metropolises, but because they so often spring up around areas of great value, the cities of different races frequently find their borders overlapping, which quite often leads to nasty and brutish conflicts until one side abandons their outlying territories.

Cool. I like the way you changed the drow, it never made sense to me with the whole idea of chaos. They were so focused on plotting and manipulating. That doesn't sound chaotic to me, that sounds scheming. And I don't think such intelligent creatures would follow some random goddess so blindly.

Quote from: SurvivormanAnd I don't think such intelligent creatures would follow some random goddess so blindly.

I think it was because she could horribly kill those who ignored her...

I've come up with two more possible races;

Aboleths:  ancient amphibious creatures dwelling in the deepest of subterranean seas, they are so intelligent that metaphors fail to describe their cognitive capacity: even newborn aboleths could out-think all but the most brilliant of humanoid savants. They have little ambition for expansion, prefering to live comfortably and occupy themselves with intellectual pursuits. Virtually all are powerful magic-users. Slaves they have either bred themselves or captured from other races perform most of the actual work in aboleth settlements. They lack any real government, with individual, mafia-like "families" administering their own personal territory. Aboleth librabries are amongst the greatest reserves of knowledge in the Underdark and those built on land are usually neutral areas open to any visitors who respect aboleth laws.

Myconids: bizarre mushroom-folk, they are living fungi whose bodies are supported by a fibrous "muscles" instead of bones. They are not usually aggressive but are fiercely expansionist. Most races, like the drow and goblins, will gladly intergrate myconid districts into their cities. They do not eat or drink, but rather absorb all that they need from decaying matter. Myconids possess a strange connection to many species of fungus in the Underdark and their magic reflects this. While tough, they are not especially strong or fast; in battle, they rely on a host of plant-derived toxins and gases, and myconid poisoners are amongst the only who can rival the drow in their expertise.

Both look like good additions.  Do the myconids have settlements of their own, and if so, how do the tend to be organized (tribal villages, fungal cities, stalactite keeps with mushroom kings?)