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Musings on Monotheism

Started by MythMage, July 26, 2010, 01:03:51 AM

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MythMage

I am developing a setting with a single divinity, and so I'm compiling thoughts on how such a situation might be best implemented.

USING MONOTHEISM
Have you ever looked at the diversity of gods in the typical Dungeons & Dragon setting and wondered what it would be like if the deities weren't so distinct? What if divine authority led back unquestionably to one source, one sublime being beyond mortal comprehension? Although an open-ended polytheism is the status quo of most Dungeons & Dragons games and similarly styled settings, some world-builders find it more compelling to deal with monotheistic or semi-monotheistic settings, where one god or goddess has essentially unchallenged control over the setting.

Restraint
Of course, if there is an omnipotent busybody working miracles constantly, every time something gets on his nerves, he would be a nigh-insurmountable obstacle to a fun D&D game. An important part of what usually makes a one-deity dynamic tick is restraint on the part of the sole or head divinity. A strongly interventionist god can easily paralyze any action and prevent most conventional forms of tension, while a restrained god will make it all the more important and dramatic when he is driven to work (presumed) miracles. The appeal in this approach versus the typical game setting arguably lies in the mystique of an exceptionally vast and all-encompassing deity. The characters can use past actions and legends to guess at what this being's ultimate goals are, but they can rarely feel confident about them. For example, in R. A. Salvatore's world of Corona, what few events are probable miracles come with little apparent rhyme or reason, aside from perhaps rewarding the devotion of a particularly thoughtful believer.

Mystery
An interventionist monotheistic god doesn't have to be a bad thing. If the god's goals are carried out in a dramatic manner without the players having knowledge of what the god intends, then the intervention functions more like a fickle force of nature than a domineering non-player character. However, some knowledge of a monotheistic deity's plans can prove useful. Allowing knowledge in abstract or obscure ways may serve to heighten tension.

The most well-known method to provide such a limited reveal is prophecy. Because the monotheistic deity sent it, you know it must come true, but you cannot be sure exactly what it means to say must come true. For example, a prophecy that dictates the victory of a red dragon over a white dragon could refer to the literal outcome of a great red dragon over a great white dragon, or it could mean something metaphorical. Perhaps it foretells the victory of some metaphorical red dragon (such as a kingdom whose symbol is a red dragon) over a metaphorical white dragon (such as a diabolical wizard known by the moniker "white dragon" for his attitude and his cruel obsession with cold magic).

Competition for Worship
Tension can also be preserved if the godhead respects the free will of those beneath it. Then, lesser beings have leeway to usurp the faith of mortals. The deity must leave alternatives or else that free will becomes totally meaningless. Challenges to the religion must exist even if challenges to the power behind that religion do not.

Perhaps the best way to maintain conflict in the arena of faith is to keep divine magic from seeming common or cheap. It must be a special reward for exceptional faith. A surprising number of D&D players forget that clerics have to be true believers, basically giving up their lives to their patrons. It's not often an easy thing to partake of a god's power while maintaining your own independent goals, especially really selfish ones, so the evil and the un-devoted will be sorely tempted by "easier" roads to power.

A great arch-devil might patron enemies of a heroic deity-worshiping party, or a godlike fairy queen who neither serves nor opposed a monotheistic deity might patron a PC sorcerer who draws power from his fey blood and likewise stands apart from enemies and servants of the god. The most commonly used "easier road" is fiendish deals, but there are many others. The deity might have rivals for worship that, while minor on the global scale, are nonetheless viable choices for PC or NPC reverence. Sometimes a fey noble can attract his own cult interested in buying a piece of his magical power or celebrating his influence over the natural world. Sometimes alien beings like the Great Old Ones of the Lovecraft mythos or the aberration gods of D&D's Far Realms serve in this capacity instead. Occasionally, even powerful celestials can provide distractions from the deity, if they operate at cross-purposes with him. This may happen if the celestial has significant differences with the deity (such as dramatic differences on the law-chaos spectrum or disagreements about the nature of free will) or the deity is non-good.

Heresy and Schisms
A dramatic advantage of the less interventionist god is increased opportunity for conflict among those who worship that deity. If the god offers very little feedback to clerics, those clerics may come up with very different ideas of what constitutes proper behavior for a believer. Schisms may develop, one religion splintering into two, three, or even more disagreeing groups. There may even erupt holy wars between competing branches of the same religion, each side believing it to be their duty to wipe out the heresy proposed by their opponents.

The existence of many factions can feed into the same appeal players and DMs find in each of their characters having different patron deities - it provides a shorthand for significant differences in beliefs, ideals, and personal history. Several options remain to provide this kind of variety within a monotheistic milieu. First, as already mentioned, the religion can be splintered by differences of opinion about a god that responds little to settle disputes. Second, and possibly reinforcing the first, a monotheistic deity can have any number of servants with godlike power or at least great significance to different groups of worshipers. The faithful might revere powerful angels such as solars, powerful fiends such as advanced balors or pit fiends, or other mighty spirits that serve as chief lieutenants to the deity and provide direction on issues the deity himself is silent about.
Everything I wanted to know about the planes I learned at Dicefreaks.

-Member and Project Head of Songs of the Sidhe (Developing fey and Faerie with cohesive flavor and mechanics that extend from 1st level to high-epic)

SA

Great thinking as always MythMage (stumbled onto your Sidhe work last week and damn, that's nice).

I've personally always found Monotheism (or at the very least a numerically small godhead) far more compelling than vast pantheons. The questions of teleology and theodicy, plucked from the pages of philosophical discourse and delivered as fantasy fiction, actually make challenging and compelling reads. A single deity, unquestioned (in existence if not in authority) and decidedly active in the world, is kickass story fuel.

Here's some thoughts of my own:

Worship and Faith
The whole matter of faith seems like a conflation of genuine fictional divinity and the 'open question' of real world cosmology where faith somehow ends up being the justification for much religious madcappery. As an alternative, how about a god who simply rewards those who, in addition to knowing It exists (and everybody does), will do what it says  (some people do)? You don't believe in It '" unlike in Real Life,,¢   its existence is as indisputable as gravity '" and it isn't even going to punish you if you don't get with its program. It simply looks after people whose goals are in keeping with its own.

Creation
Plenty of fantasy fiction handwaves the metaphysical logic behind magic, but I for one have a bug up my arse about 'gods' creating the universe out of nothing (the be all/end all of handwaves). So let's say god is a material being, the same sort of material thing as all other matter on a fundamental level. It is not the universe, nor is it omnipresent, but It built the universe out of Stuff, for whatever reason.

Reason
Does it need a reason? Notions of mystery or incomprehensibility aside, maybe it straight up doesn't have one. Being the very first intelligent thing in the cosmos it had no point of reference for its actions. Its first act of creation was akin to an infant's explorations of its surroundings (don't put that in your mouth, Yahweh!). Dead worlds, selfish, ruinous proto-beings and other agents of etheric chaos and endless tracts of inimical void might have been the first things it invented simply because it had no idea what it was doing.

Morality
Morality comes later, assuming it comes at all. Let's say it does. It creates demons, demideities, foundation spirits, an inchoate slurry of unintelligible elements... Only once these things start bashing into each other and leaving large chunks behind does It realise that, without Its intervention (fixing its own design errors), entropy will kick in and all Its work will undo itself. It does not dispense any 'thou shalts'. It straight up changes the rules until things are in working order.

Potency and Personality
This god is not omnipotent. Nor omniscient. To have perfect knowledge of reality It would have to be bigger than reality, and that's an unintelligible mess as far as I'm concerned. It is, however, virtually indestructible (whether a being exists beyond God's own construct capable of challenging it is up in the air). Why doesn't It throw Its weight around? Because It's still trying to figure this whole reality thing out, and it's a perpetual work in progress. It seriously made the whole world and everything in it, and being a finite being It only has so much energy to go around. It isn't very well going to stop you doing what you're doing if It can learn something valuable from your behaviour (in fact, It may have learned morality from beings It created, possibly when their restless brutality demonstrated for good and for all the value of the Golden Rule).

Prophecy and Intervention
Another way of looking at divine prophecy is as a declaration of divine intent. A divination of future events might reveal 'the mind of god', so that humans can know what It is focusing Its efforts on. In MythMage's example of the red dragon, this might translate as 'when the white dragon and the red dragon throw down God is going to put a lot of chips red.' It's what God wants to happen and will try to make happen. Defying prophecy is an uphill struggle because you're defying divine desire, not divine law. If you manage to gather enough resources that God doesn't think it's worth pressing the issue, good for you.

Worship and Waywardness
Anybody can kiss God's butt, but that's not to say God cares. Ego is a vice for beings with survival mechanisms. God does care when you want what It wants, and those needs are being refined every instant. It is on a path of (self?) discovery: the only way for It to know reality is to explore the consequences of Its creations, and the only way for It to know Itself is through the mirror of reality. Conversely, most ill-intentioned creatures escape Its attention: only seriously hardcore rabblerousers get the heavy treatment and even then God often figures 'hey, I wouldn't have made you if I didn't want you to do stuff'.

Well That's Not What You Should Do!
Just because God is obvious and Its desires are transparent doesn't mean people have to accept that it knows what's best. It's a being, and fallible like all beings. Uber-wizards and superscientists with one point twenty-one jiggawatt flux capacitators might blatantly challenge its designs. People are insane and ultimately ungovernable. They might wage holy wars not over God's divine plan but over their favoured amendments to that plan. You know, the things God got wrong. And God might not even have an opinion on the matter.

I hope this thread was open for conjecture, otherwise my bad.

EDIT: Strictly speaking there's no real reason why the god I've envisioned couldn't be killed by its own cosmos. People's houses are falling down on their heads all the time.

Ghostman

Quote from: Salacious AngelTo have perfect knowledge of reality It would have to be bigger than reality, and that's an unintelligible mess as far as I'm concerned.
Why should the supernatural have to adhere to such constraints of logic? Or better yet, why should cosmic/divine elements of a fictional "reality" have to be intelligible in any way whatsoever?
¡ɟlǝs ǝnɹʇ ǝɥʇ ´ʍopɐɥS ɯɐ I

Paragon * (Paragon Rules) * Savage Age (Wiki) * Argyrian Empire [spoiler=Mother 2]

* You meet the New Age Retro Hippie
* The New Age Retro Hippie lost his temper!
* The New Age Retro Hippie's offense went up by 1!
* Ness attacks!
SMAAAASH!!
* 87 HP of damage to the New Age Retro Hippie!
* The New Age Retro Hippie turned back to normal!
YOU WON!
* Ness gained 160 xp.
[/spoiler]

beejazz

The way I see it, you can go SA's way (obvious God but neither omnipotent nor omniscient... nor super meddling anyway) or you can go the real world way (if there is a God, it doesn't mess with you so there's no way to know it exists or what it's like).

Either way, I'd ditch clerical magic, or at least its direct connection to the divine. If such existed it would be waaay too easy to know which religion is the "right" one, what God would want you to do, etc. etc. Then you've gone from one God to one religion, and what's an RPG without some conflict?
Beejazz's Homebrew System
 Beejazz's Homebrew Discussion

QuoteI don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

MythMage

Actually, as I pointed out in my post, one deity does not mean automatically knowing which religion is "right". In fact, it's entirely possible that there isn't one "right" one. Other beings, such as archfiends or archcelestials, could provide the divine magic even if the deity chose to withhold it. And the deity grant spells to those who are "wrong" in order to test the faith of those who are "right" in some grand plan.
Everything I wanted to know about the planes I learned at Dicefreaks.

-Member and Project Head of Songs of the Sidhe (Developing fey and Faerie with cohesive flavor and mechanics that extend from 1st level to high-epic)

MythMage

Thanks, Salacious Angel.

My intent was to discuss the different ways one can effectively implement a monotheistic cosmology and explore what the baseline assumptions are about such deities. You make an interesting single example case of a somewhat limited godhead motivated by curiosity, different from the approaches I had considered.

My own work deals with a more limited deity too, but one motivated by something very different from curiosity. Rather, it is a smaller deity growing to eliminate all other rivals for dominance.
Everything I wanted to know about the planes I learned at Dicefreaks.

-Member and Project Head of Songs of the Sidhe (Developing fey and Faerie with cohesive flavor and mechanics that extend from 1st level to high-epic)

Ghostman

Quote from: MythMageActually, as I pointed out in my post, one deity does not mean automatically knowing which religion is "right". In fact, it's entirely possible that there isn't one "right" one. Other beings, such as archfiends or archcelestials, could provide the divine magic even if the deity chose to withhold it. And the deity grant spells to those who are "wrong" in order to test the faith of those who are "right" in some grand plan.
One could take this a step further and completely severe any connection between objects of religious veneration (deities) and the actual, existing entity or entities. It could be that no one in the whole of mortalkind has ever had any contact with true divinity, even at the level of revelation - and neither with any "false" gods for that matter. Then you'd have a true cosmology that no one really knows about, and a bunch of religions that sprung up naturally and whose priesthoods all appear to have the gift of divine magic. But then, why would everyone be monotheists?

A more important question for us all: Which is more relevant for a setting - the "real" cosmology, or the one(s) perceived by it's inhabitants?
¡ɟlǝs ǝnɹʇ ǝɥʇ ´ʍopɐɥS ɯɐ I

Paragon * (Paragon Rules) * Savage Age (Wiki) * Argyrian Empire [spoiler=Mother 2]

* You meet the New Age Retro Hippie
* The New Age Retro Hippie lost his temper!
* The New Age Retro Hippie's offense went up by 1!
* Ness attacks!
SMAAAASH!!
* 87 HP of damage to the New Age Retro Hippie!
* The New Age Retro Hippie turned back to normal!
YOU WON!
* Ness gained 160 xp.
[/spoiler]

Kindling

One thing I think could be interesting to explore is the idea of many churches of the single deity.

I think the 3.x Deities and Demigods talked about this a bit, IIRC. They used it as a way of getting clerics of different alignments and with different domain spells in a setting with a single divinity - clerics of church x can be evil as they worship the "destroyer aspect" and therefore can access Death, Destruction and Evil domans, while clerics of church y are good/lawful as they worship the "defender aspect" and access Protection, Good and Law domains, for example.

However, outside of such a rules-based necessity I did also think it was an interesting setting premise, although it would be somewhat ruined if the deity in question was of an interventionist bent. With a distant deity, though, the possibilities of conflict between churches, declaring one another "heretic" and their arguments about who has the REAL interpretation of the being of the almighty could lead to a very rich religious framework for a setting.

Even if there wasn't direct conflict between the different churches, it would still enrich the setting. For example regional variations on the one faith reflecting cultural traits from the different areas.
all hail the reapers of hope

SA

Quote from: beejazzThen you've gone from one God to one religion, and what's an RPG without some conflict?
is[/i] simply settled for all people for all of time. We can still slay dragons.

Quote from: Ghostman...But then, why would everyone be monotheists?
A more important question for us all: Which is more relevant for a setting - the "real" cosmology, or the one(s) perceived by it's inhabitants?[/quote]tension[/i] between them can be the most relevant part.

Edit: In fact I think that's true of other fantasy fiction. The Cthulhu Mythos is all about failing mortal illusions and bleak intimations of the truths beneath. Kinda like Sunday nights.

SA

Quote from: Kindlingalthough it would be somewhat ruined if the deity in question was of an interventionist bent.
Fighting fish.[/i]

LordVreeg

Quote from: KindlingOne thing I think could be interesting to explore is the idea of many churches of the single deity.

I think the 3.x Deities and Demigods talked about this a bit, IIRC. They used it as a way of getting clerics of different alignments and with different domain spells in a setting with a single divinity - clerics of church x can be evil as they worship the "destroyer aspect" and therefore can access Death, Destruction and Evil domans, while clerics of church y are good/lawful as they worship the "defender aspect" and access Protection, Good and Law domains, for example.

However, outside of such a rules-based necessity I did also think it was an interesting setting premise, although it would be somewhat ruined if the deity in question was of an interventionist bent. With a distant deity, though, the possibilities of conflict between churches, declaring one another "heretic" and their arguments about who has the REAL interpretation of the being of the almighty could lead to a very rich religious framework for a setting.

Even if there wasn't direct conflict between the different churches, it would still enrich the setting. For example regional variations on the one faith reflecting cultural traits from the different areas.


It's always interesting to do this.  The idea of unknowability, where the humans who create the faith have an incomplete understanding of a being that is so beyond them.  In Igbar, the Church of Nebler the Just Shield competes with the Lawful Triumverate (comprise of Abradaxus the Harsh, Rakastra the judge, and Nebler the Protector).  Neither is really right, from my vantage I know that both churches see Nebler slightly differently, as these are human agents trying to understand a being far aboved them.
VerkonenVreeg, The Nice.Celtricia, World of Factions

Steel Island Online gaming thread
The Collegium Arcana Online Game
Old, evil, twisted, damaged, and afflicted.  Orbis non sufficit.Thread Murderer Extraordinaire, and supposedly pragmatic...\"That is my interpretation. That the same rules designed to reduce the role of the GM and to empower the player also destroyed the autonomy to create a consistent setting. And more importantly, these rules reduce the Roleplaying component of what is supposed to be a \'Fantasy Roleplaying game\' to something else\"-Vreeg

Kindling

Quote from: Salacious AngelOr if He's an amoral bastard he could just laugh his ass off while they go at it like piranhas.

Edit: Ugh. Fighting fish.

See, I would class that as being "distant" rather than "interventionist" - regardless of the motivation, the deity would, in this situation, be observing and perhaps very subtly influencing, rather than directly intervening in mortal affairs.
all hail the reapers of hope

MythMage

Back to the Beginning
Imagine a world begun with a conflict between the sole goddess and her first child/creation, a vast and powerful elemental, who at first adored his mother but wished for slaves to adore him like he did her. The plot might be driven by this conflict in any number of ways - perhaps the goddess's high priest needs the heroes to crush a dangerous arm of the elemental's cult, or the elemental cult fights on the behalf of innocent mortals persecuted by the intolerant and cruel clergy. In a game at the highest levels, the elemental might even appeal to the heroes to help preserve his influence among mortals against the overwhelming power of his mother's church, revealing dark secrets about her intentions and even hinting that mortal reverence for him is the only reason she has not destroyed the world. A noninterventionist deity might have some very unexpected and unpleasant motives and goals. The aforementioned goddess might wish to simply erase the world and begin anew and is only waiting to see what it takes to win universal adoration before she does it.

A monotheistic deity is often, but not always, responsible for and deeply linked to the way that the world comes to be. Sometimes, beginnings are irrelevant to even the divine aspect of a game or story. It may never come up. However, it can also provide a primeval backdrop for an ultimate conflict, as in the example above. A "prime mover" type of deity might also be simply curious, looking to experiment and learn what happens given certain starting conditions. It might only want to be loved freely and without compulsion by its creations. Or it might seek some other goal dependent upon free will (thus giving leeway for plots to happen without predetermination). The possibilities are numerous.

Becoming Monotheism
On the other hand, a monotheistic deity might be a new phenomenon in the world. Perhaps the world once hosted many gods, and over time the rivals have killed each other off, absorbed one another, or have simply been forgotten and faded away. Into the eventual power vacuum has stepped a god that was once less than he is now, with a perspective decidedly different than what arises from inherent omnipotence. Whereas a god who starts out on top is often tolerant of other lesser powers operating in the world, an up-and-coming young god is more likely to suppress threats to his hegemony such as the cults of fading fellow gods and non-divine religions.

Due to his lower origin, this god might not be as strong as other monotheistic gods often are - indeed, he might even be able to be threatened by epic mortal heroes of sufficient level. Such a threat is most likely when a weaker god is left alone by widespread religious apathy in a setting where gods depend on worship for their existence. In a similar setting which retains some fading strands of polytheism, preventing an evil god from being the last god standing might be the goal of a great epic quest. To stop the impending victory, one must revive at least one but preferably several dead or dying religions and thereby restore power to the associated god(s).
Everything I wanted to know about the planes I learned at Dicefreaks.

-Member and Project Head of Songs of the Sidhe (Developing fey and Faerie with cohesive flavor and mechanics that extend from 1st level to high-epic)

Ghostman

Quote from: MythMageBecoming Monotheism
On the other hand, a monotheistic deity might be a new phenomenon in the world. Perhaps the world once hosted many gods, and over time the rivals have killed each other off, absorbed one another, or have simply been forgotten and faded away. Into the eventual power vacuum has stepped a god that was once less than he is now, with a perspective decidedly different than what arises from inherent omnipotence.
Then there's the opposite situation: a world where there initially was, and so far has been, only one god. But now new (true) divinities are showing up. There are many ways this could happen, such as by the original god spawning (unwanted?) offspring, or by invasion of entities from "outside" creation (what ever that may mean), or by godlings spontaneously sprouting from the fertile frame of the universe itself, or by the means of apotheosis.

Quote from: MythMageWhereas a god who starts out on top is often tolerant of other lesser powers operating in the world, an up-and-coming young god is more likely to suppress threats to his hegemony such as the cults of fading fellow gods and non-divine religions.
I don't quite agree with this. I don't recall any examples of polytheist religions where a change in the power structure/usurpation actually led to the new biggest god on the block being less tolerant of other powers.

Besides, a deity that was once much weaker may very well hold more sympathy toward those that remind him of his past, than one who has always been the top dog (and thus might regard the others as weaklings not worthy of any respect)
¡ɟlǝs ǝnɹʇ ǝɥʇ ´ʍopɐɥS ɯɐ I

Paragon * (Paragon Rules) * Savage Age (Wiki) * Argyrian Empire [spoiler=Mother 2]

* You meet the New Age Retro Hippie
* The New Age Retro Hippie lost his temper!
* The New Age Retro Hippie's offense went up by 1!
* Ness attacks!
SMAAAASH!!
* 87 HP of damage to the New Age Retro Hippie!
* The New Age Retro Hippie turned back to normal!
YOU WON!
* Ness gained 160 xp.
[/spoiler]

MythMage

Quote from: Ghostmaninvasion of entities from "outside" creation (what ever that may mean)
Well, in the regular Great Wheel cosmology, the Material Plane contains many worlds. Could be there's a world with a single god that gets invaded by gods from other worlds.

Quote from: GhostmanI don't quite agree with this. I don't recall any examples of polytheist religions where a change in the power structure/usurpation actually led to the new biggest god on the block being less tolerant of other powers.
Actually, I wasn't drawing on any examples because I can't think of any that fit my description of monotheism (wherein "one god or goddess has essentially unchallenged control over the setting"). Most polytheism doesn't involve gods drawing power from their worshipers and all the polytheism I know of that involves a god ascending to the highest post instead of starting out there does not also include that new top dog being "essentially unchallenged". Most of them spend a great deal of time fighting off rivals very near them in power. Can you name a few such polytheisms so I can see what you're talking about?

Quote from: GhostmanBesides, a deity that was once much weaker may very well hold more sympathy toward those that remind him of his past, than one who has always been the top dog (and thus might regard the others as weaklings not worthy of any respect)
Possible, but it seems more likely to me that such a being sees them as not worthy of any fear (and thus don't require a grand effort to kill them off). After all, complacency's a big part of what leads many primordial gods to defeat in multi-generational pantheons, isn't it?
Everything I wanted to know about the planes I learned at Dicefreaks.

-Member and Project Head of Songs of the Sidhe (Developing fey and Faerie with cohesive flavor and mechanics that extend from 1st level to high-epic)