Low/No Magic Brainstorming

[Lmns Crn]

In that case, any preliminary thoughts on my suggested workarounds for the lack of magical healing?

I'm sure some kind of magic item replacement in the form of expanded masterwork gear. I don't really have a good system for that, but if you do, I wouldn't mind hearing about it for my own use.

As far as area of effect spells, I'm not so sure they're so necessary that a real workaround is necessary. Replace fireball salvos with screaming, bloody skirmishes, and you've reintroduced a truly personal, caring aspect of combat that I've really missed: when someone kills you with a sword, you get the sense that they really mean it. Magical carnage is so impersonal.

Anyway, there's always splash weapons via alchemy, catapults with Very Large Boulders, and the possibility of gunpowder and grenades for area-affect violence, if that's the sort of thing you're after.

[Soup Nazi]

In that case, any preliminary thoughts on my suggested workarounds for the lack of magical healing?

I am not concerned with my apothecaries duplicating the effects of spells. This is about flavor, not reinventing the wheel. I dont want spellcasting because it doesn't fit my vision, but I have no problem repackaging some of the effects of spells in other more appropriate forms. I am very much interested in your surgery ideas though.

I'm thinking this setting would be much like the Ottoman Empire, but with wuxia style combat, Geber style alchemy (see the link below if you are unfamiliar), pirates, smugglers, thieves, califs, sultans, and a fading Byzantine influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabir_ibn_Hayyan

I'm sure some kind of magic item replacement in the form of expanded masterwork gear. I don't really have a good system for that, but if you do, I wouldn't mind hearing about it for my own use.

I'm planning on using legacy weapons for this. I'll probably give PCs a free masterwork item at level one, which over time can become very powerful. "In the hands of skilled warrior, a sword is no mere sword, but an instrument that reflects his talents, abilities, passions, and power."

As far as area of effect spells, I'm not so sure they're so necessary that a real workaround is necessary. Replace fireball salvos with screaming, bloody skirmishes, and you've reintroduced a truly personal, caring aspect of combat that I've really missed: when someone kills you with a sword, you get the sense that they really mean it. Magical carnage is so impersonal.

It becomes important when dealing with the threat of many substantially lower level enemies. Like an angry mob, or a band of highwaymen, and things like that. I don't need horrid wilting or anything incredibly powerful like that, but a few effective grenade-like weapons will be immensely valuable without a wizard in the party.

Anyway, there's always splash weapons via alchemy, catapults with Very Large Boulders, and the possibility of gunpowder and grenades for area-affect violence, if that's the sort of thing you're after.

Here are some of the alchemical items I have been brewing up. Irealize some of these are quite potent, but they need to replace potent magical effects. Any comments or suggestions are quite welcome.

Oh Cymro, How do those alchemical feats work in Altvogge? I didn't dig deep enough to find the specifics.

Acidic Blast Grenade: This brilliant green flask of acid can be thrown as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. It explodes on impact in a 20-foot-radius burst, inflicting acid damage to all creatures within the area of effect. A creature struck directly receives no saving throw against the damage, but all other creatures within the area of effect take half damage on a successful DC 15 Reflex save. The potency of the acid varies from 1d6 to 10d6 points of damage, which is reflected in the market value.

Craft (Alchemy) DC 25, Market Value: 50 gp per die of damage, Weight: 1 lb.

Anti-Paralytic Unguent: When you apply this chalky white cream to the skin, it provides a character with a new saving throw against any paralyzing condition, with a +5 alchemical bonus to the saving throw. Even if the original effect did not permit a saving throw, the recipient still gets a Fortitude saving throw (though this saving throw has no alchemical bonus to the roll) to recover from the condition. A jar of this unguent has sufficient cream for five applications before it is exhausted. Applying the unguent to a creature is a full round action (obviously a paralyzed creature cannot apply the unguent to himself).

Profession (Herbalist), or Profession (Apothecary) check DC 20, Market Value: 100 gp. Weight: 1 lb. per jar.

Apothecaryâ,¬,,¢s Salve: This pasty substance is a viscous gray-white mixture of liquefied herbs and dissolved minerals. Pasted over the skin as a full round action, it is quickly absorbed and takes effect within 1d4 rounds. Once absorbed the miraculous slave removes all of the following conditions currently afflicting the character: blinded, deafened, energy drained, exhausted, fatigued, nauseated, or sickened. A bottle of this salve contains only enough for a single dose.

Profession (Apothecary) check DC 25, Market Value: 300 gp. Weight: 1 oz. per bottle.

Boiling Blood: This crimson red fluid bubbles and quickly evaporates when exposed to the air. Kept in one-ounce corked vials, this alchemical fluid causes a surge of heat within the imbiber that causes his skin to flush, and terrible burning pain to course through his veins causing 2 points of fire damage each round at the beginning of his turn. However in addition to this terrible burning sensation, the imbiber also gains a +4 alchemical bonus to his Strength. The duration of the effects of Boiling Blood is 4 rounds.

Craft (Alchemy) DC 20, Market Value: 20 gp, Weight: 1 oz.

Boiling Blood (Greater): This crimson red fluid bubbles and quickly evaporates when exposed to the air. Kept in one-ounce corked vials, this alchemical fluid causes a surge of heat within the imbiber that causes his skin to flush, and terrible burning pain to course through his veins causing 4 points of fire damage each round at the beginning of his turn. However in addition to this terrible burning sensation, the imbiber also gains a +8 alchemical bonus to his Strength. The duration of the effects of Greater Boiling Blood is 4 rounds.

Craft (Alchemy) DC 25, Market Value: 100 gp, Weight: 1 oz.

Fire Snuff: This ashen powder, when cast upon a small fire such as a lit torch or a small campfire automatically puts it out. It also puts out alchemists fire with one application. A character that is on fire can have his flames immediately extinguished if he or a companion casts a dose of fire snuff upon him. In addition, fire snuff can injure fire elementals, causing them 1d8 damage if hit with a ranged touch attack. Fire snuff has no effect on lava or magma based creatures, or ones that are merely hot rather than flaming.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 15. Market Value: 10 gp. Weight: 1 lb. per dose.

Flash Grenade: You can throw this stone as a ranged attack with a range increment of 20 feet. When it strikes a hard surface (or is struck hard), it creates a blinding flash. Each creature within a 10-foot-radius spread must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be blinded for 1 hour.  A blinded character takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character.

Since you donâ,¬,,¢t need to hit a specific target, you can simply aim at a particular 5-foot square. Treat the target square as AC 5.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 20 to create. Market Value: 30 gp each. Weight: 1 lb.

Glow Chalk: This alchemical chalk makes it easy to read writings and markings in the dark. Markings made with glow chalk will glow indefinitely. It is especially useful to miners and adventurers to leave messages for each other or leave direction markings on dungeon walls, but this also makes it easy for others to follow you. Glow chalk provides no useful amount of illumination.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 15, Market Value: 25 gp per stick. Weight: 2 oz. per stick.

Incendiary Grenade: This brilliant orange flask of incendiary oil can be thrown as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. It explodes on impact in a 20-foot-radius burst, inflicting fire damage to all creatures within the area of effect. A creature struck directly receives no saving throw against the damage, but all other creatures within the area of effect take half damage on a successful DC 15 Reflex save. The potency of the flames varies from 1d6 to 10d6 points of damage, which is reflected in the market value.

Craft (Alchemy) DC 25, Market Value: 50 gp per die of damage, Weight: 1 lb.

Purifier Drops: One dose of this transparent liquid clears 1 gallon of water of all diseases and poisons. It is, in itself, tasteless but it ruins the flavor of other drinks such as beer, wine, milk, or juice. A character may sneak this into his drink at a formal occasion with a DC 10 Sleight of Hand check. When doing this under close observation, this check is opposed by the observerâ,¬,,¢s Spot check.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 25, Market Value: 50 gp. Weight: 1 oz. per vial.

Quicksilver: This metallic liquid grants the imbiber supernatural quickness, reflexes, and reaction time. Quicksilver is incredibly toxic however, and when the effects subside the consumer suffers painful and debilitating ability damage. Once consumed the imbiber gains a +30 alchemical bonus to speed and a +2 alchemical bonus to attack rolls, initiative, and reflex saves for 1 minute (10 rounds). When the effects subside, the imbiber suffers 1d4 points of Dexterity damage.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 25, Market Value: 75 gp. Weight: 1 oz. per flask.

The Elixir of Vitality: This potent concoction is a vibrant blue fluid stored in a one-ounce corked vial with phenomenal healing power. When consumed the imbiber immediately heals a number of hit points equal to one full day of bed rest (2 hp per character level, and 2 points of ability damage per ability score).

Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Apothecary) DC 20, Market Value: 20 gp, Weight: 1 oz.

The Elixir of Vitality (Greater): This potent concoction is a vibrant blue fluid stored in a one-ounce corked vial with phenomenal healing power. When consumed the imbiber immediately heals a number of hit points equal to two full days of bed rest (4 hp per character level, and 4 points of ability damage per ability score).

Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Apothecary) DC 25, Market Value: 100 gp, Weight: 1 oz.

Rejuvenation Draught: Imbibing a vial of this cool green solution immediately causes the character to fall into a comatose state for 8 hours, during which he is unconscious, helpless, and cannot be awakened. After this he wakes, he is healed of 100 points of damage and is cured of any of the following conditions: ability damage, blindness, confusion, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. This catatonic state uses up a lot of metabolic resources and after waking, the character is considered to have missed one full dayâ,¬,,¢s worth of meals, and is ravenously hungry.

Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Apothecary) check DC 30, Market Value: 500 gp. Weight: 1 oz.

Sensory Amplification Draught: A flask of this thick, viscous, black fluid smells like licorice and tar, and choking it down is terribly unpleasent, but the effects are remarkable and completely counter to those expected. The imbiber gains preternatural senses, a keen sense of smell, acute vision, and phenomenal hearing. Once consumed the imbiber gains a +4 alchemical bonus to Listen and Spot checks, the scent ability, blindsight with a 30 foot range, and low-light vision for 1 hour.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 25, Market Value: 100 gp. Weight: 1 oz. per flask.

[SA]

These are some friggin' awesome items.

Boiling blood?

Sweet...

[Soup Nazi]

Thanks...I thought it was pretty cool too.

[CYMRO]

Oh Cymro, How do those alchemical feats work in Altvogge? I didn't dig deep enough to find the specifics.

You take the feat, Philosophy of Alchemy, and then you are "trained" in the tradition of basic alchemy.  This allows you to undertake any Primal or Master rankalchemical processes.

By taking the Philosophy of Essence Purity Feat, you can then undertake the Royal Road processes.  These also require an upgraded crucible.

The last feat,   Philosophy of Immortality, is required to attempt to create the Philosopher's Stone, and the Elixir of Life.  And, again an upgraded crucible is required.



PHILOSOPHY OF ALCHEMY [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Intelligence 12, Wisdom 12, Charisma 12.
Benefit: Your study of this esoteric art allows you to add Craft (Alchemy) to your list of class skills.
Normal: Without this feat, you cannot access Craft (Alchemy) as a class skill.
 
PHILOSOPHY OF ESSENCE PURITY [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Philosophy of Alchemy. Crafted at least one of every type of Primal and Master Ranked Alchemic items
Benefit: Your practical applications of the philosophies of alchemy allow you to begin crafting the series of Royal road alchemic vials.
Normal: Without this feat, the Royal Road is closed to you.
 
PHILOSOPHY OF IMMORTALITY [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Philosophy of Essence Purity. You must have crafted and ingested the full series of Royal Road vials.
Benefit: You have now prepared yourself to create the Philosopher's Stone, and achieve immortality.
Normal: Without this feat, it is impossible to craft the Philosopher's Stone or the Elixir of Life.

[Soup Nazi]

Sweet! Thank you very much. So essentially you have three levels of alchemy, each requiring a more potent feat and crucible to make alchemical items that fall within their range of power. (correct?)

Where would you rank the items I've got in this thread? Probably within the Essence of Purity, I would think...

BTW: I plan to do the same kind of thing with Profession (Herbalist) and Profession (Apothecary). Sort of like the wizard/druid/cleric division in magic.

Thanks for the help Cymro. Much obliged!

[CYMRO]

Sweet! Thank you very much. So essentially you have three levels of alchemy, each requiring a more potent feat and crucible to make alchemical items that fall within their range of power. (correct?)

Where would you rank the items I've got in this thread? Probably within the Essence of Purity, I would think...


Thanks for the help Cymro. Much obliged!

Correct.

Where would you rank the items I've got in this thread? Probably within the Essence of Purity, I would think...

I would rank them:

Acidic Blast Grenade: PRIMAL
Anti-Paralytic Unguent: MASTER
Apothecaryâ,¬,,¢s Salve: MASTER
Boiling Blood: Akin to ROYAL ROAD, requiring the same Feat, just not part of the Royal Road process, and so not the upgraded crucible.
Boiling Blood (Greater): Akin to ROYAL ROAD
Fire Snuff: PRIMAL
Flash Grenade: MASTER
Glow Chalk: PRIMAL
Incendiary Grenade: MASTER
Purifier Drops: PRIMAL
Quicksilver: Akin to ROYAL ROAD
The Elixir of Vitality: Akin to ROYAL ROAD
The Elixir of Vitality (Greater): Akin to ROYAL ROAD
Rejuvenation Draught: Akin to ROYAL ROAD
Sensory Amplification Draught: Akin to ROYAL ROAD

BTW: I plan to do the same kind of thing with Profession (Herbalist) and Profession (Apothecary). Sort of like the wizard/druid/cleric division in magic.

In the second Altvogge book, in preparation still, I have a class of plants known as defilants, which will be OGC.  I will post them in the Altvogge thread shortly.  DANGEROUS stuff!!!

Apothecary sounds interesting.  How will it differ from the Herbalist?  Seems there would be much cross-over.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Check oot my Altvogge link for a good Alchemy skill.

Very nice.  I think my players might kill me if I introduced any more houserules, but I'm still impressed.

Replace fireball salvos with screaming, bloody skirmishes, and you've reintroduced a truly personal, caring aspect of combat that I've really missed: when someone kills you with a sword, you get the sense that they really mean it. Magical carnage is so impersonal.

If I put humorous quotations in my signature, this would have to go there.

[beejazz]

Wow. Just plain wow.